The problem with arguing about "feminism" is that it's not a single philosophy; it's an umbrella term for many different and contradictory philosophies and ideologies.  There are many people who call themselves feminists with whom I disagree greatly; there are others with whom I mostly agree, and many others all over the map.  I like having the right to vote and own property and pick my own spouse, so, yeah, I'm a feminist.  But that doesn't mean I agree with the majority of the ideology that's being promoted as "feminism."

Come to America, erkolos. You'll hear it plenty.

Yup

I like the classic statement by Cheris Kramerae:

"Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings."

So am I , and I am a Feminist!    Many of them turn me off...  I think some women have hyjacked feminism to their own selfish purposes or left wing politics...

My advice is just to be yourself... I have made many a left wing feminist turn red with anger, when I don't agree with them.
Stand your ground.. if it is moral and right.. you will find the strength.. don't let the loudmouths run you over...

There is a saying "If you can't be right , be wrong in a loud voice" I think this is where feminism has been taken to by some... not all... There are many of us Traditional feminist as I call ourselves..

Betty Freidan who wrote the Feminist Mystic was Blasted down by the hard left feminist just before she passed away.. Like  me , she was dumfounded at what has evolved.

unfortunately the power of naming has been present in all the human history, i'll like to make an analogy with the third reich, in which all the ''Jewish '' and ''black'' were considerated inferior just for that.

i don't know, maybe is something of the human nature, praise someone who seems ''superior'' to guide the community  and beat off those apparently different people without giving them the opportunity

That happens to me too, sometimes I think something goes without saying when in fact it's not, i have learned to translate all my thoughts on words, but sometimes is still difficult to know when something goes without saying or not :s

Exactly. Jewish, black, gay, certain religions. The Nazis didn't have to do much persuading to convince the people that the Others were inferior -- "it goes without saying" -- and from lesser-human to sub-human is a short jump...

Who on earth is Rush Limbaugh, Max?  I do my own thinking...

I guess your last remarks to me are as close as I'll get to an apology for the aggressive, ignorant post of yours which started this (you were claiming a superior knowledge of 'truth', you'll remember).  Those last remarks of yours, as I'm sure you'll agree, amount to nothing more than "you're no better than me"...which was my message in the first place.  Except, of course, I don't offer my ideas as 'unassailable truth'...I just offer my ideas.  You choose to attack the person behind the ideas - unsurprisingly, this person responds personally.  And no, I have seen enough to be sure that I have little or no respect for you.  You can imagine it's because you're (what is your beef?  you are a guy, right?  whatever, fill in your own victim-status), but it's because you regurgitate political propoganda without ever trying to find the *whole* of the truth.

Now, you've referred to some lifetime of privilege that you think I've had.  Bearing in mind this is an aspie site, you think I've somehow still had more than my fair share, that perhaps servants arrive every morning (as they once did to noble women) and ease my passage through the day?  I grew up as an immigrant, so faced violent prejudice daily.  I've been attacked for all sorts of bizarre reasons - mostly by women, funnily enough (just a couple, but they understood themselves - and their sisters - to be in a position where they could physically, verbally and psychology attack men.  That's always been true, at least in working class communities).

Class...we seem to have lost sight of that power struggle in the focus on women.  Have you *ever* met a misogynist, Max?  really?  All the men I know have been raised to respect their mothers and thus their wives, and women generally.  We certainly don't hit or insult them.

Class played a huge part in the pointless slaughter of millions of men during WW1 -would it really have been a victory, Max, if they'd conscripted women too?  No society that does that to millions of men can legitimately be referred to as 'patriarchal' - certainly not to the point that it becomes the sole defining factor.

You mention Hitler up there, Max - he relied on people like you to bolster the idea that all the problems could be solved by blaming them on the 'other' who had been oppressing 'our group' for ever.  Women *are* human beings, Max - at least one, then, will be Hitlerian.  It only takes one.  The rest will be a mixed bag of all those *human* qualities and failings that define men.  You can argue that men define society, if you must (devaluing women *again*), but you can't, with a straight face, argue that women could define it 'better'?

I did hear about Melungeons on the History Channel but never heard of them in WV.

Just a few dozen jokes directed at the police.  
Someone drew a detailed rural traffic stop on the bathroom wall.  I guess it can happen in very remote places, your word against his.
One punch line is cop saying, "yeah, yeah, yeah ____ ____ my ***."

I'm still laughing 11 years later.

You're right about the racism.  Mom was afraid to invite Ernie over to the WV retreat, afraid of what K____ and R____ and B____ might say, 90% white up there.  So she invited him to our flat in PG County, 80% black.

I can imagine the Boys Don't Cry scenario in Berkeley County WV.

Do you know what the locals said about my brother in Inwood, WV?

(to their kids) Stay away from (my brother), this was perhaps some point between 1992 and 1998.
Because he's a computer programmer with a very dead love life.  Like mine.

That's why he went to Arlington County in 1998.

I really enjoyed your piece, Max, on the high school girls and the guys they think they need, and the revelation they get in their mid to late 20's.

It's exactly what I needed to resolve my conundrum.  

1.  If you or I are such intelligent, compassionate, adults with good character and personality
2.  Why do we get such a lousy welcome?
3.  Because they think they need something, the way they need something, and it is not what we can offer.

Insert Asperger or morbid obesity, and I figured it out.


We're more civilised down here in NoVa.

Jiggs, in all honesty I cannot bring myself to wade through another jiggeryqua diatribe. If it's any better than the others, I'm sure someone will PM me with all due astonished excitement.  You've demonstrated that the world has taught you very little 43 years, and sadly you have nothing to teach in return, consequently you're not the sort of person I would invest much time in. Perhaps someone else will. I suspect not.

Actually as president of Houstons Womens liberation in 1970, I felt compelled to join the service if my Bday was called for the men.. I told my mother and father I would join because it was not fair for men to serve and women not... We all watch the draft numbers...my bday was 360 to the relief of my parents... the day after my bday was #3!!!!!  But yes I would have joined the Navy with honor next to my fellow Americans.
I could not live with myself if I did not as a female who wanted equal rights and the ERA.. I still have my ERA bracelet.

I respect your patriotism, Yetti.  You and your agemates actually have living memory of an American draft.  Now, being born in April 1970 (Beatles breakup, Cambodia invasion), my generation thinks  a draft is  a beer

Bless, Max - maybe the grown-ups will be able to see the difference between my telling you I have no respect for you, and your telling me no-one will have any respect for me.  Many people do.  Some of them are women!  Few, if any, are adherents to orthodoxies, since all 'unassailable truths' are merely cherished falsehoods and it is not in the nature of the zealously orthodox to respect the 'other'...

When you claimed your 'victim' status, Max, did you imagine it also gave you liberty to rescind your obligation to be a decent human being?

Give your body and gold to Ceasar, your soul belongs to you and God.

Also.. it was not easy being a feminist back then, I think the far left gals today are a new phenomena. They are lazy and mindless, their far left bf do the thinking for them.  The traditional feminists were the early ones... we went through hell.. now the new feminist give us hell too.. Ask Betty Fredan's family.