what did cause the great big fiasco with joker?

p.s why would timelord do anything to me i mean it's not like im going on a hating autism crusade with him

From what I understand, Joker (or Joeker as he was called back then) started a petition to have John Best's blog banned, and Timelord decided to help him out.

After a while, Timelord started hosting the petition on his own site, and Joeker was quite annoyed about it. There was an escalating blog war, and the whole thing came to a head when Timelord called a helpline that Joeker was a regular caller to, and told them that Joeker was "losing it", and should be institutionalised.

When Joeker found out about this, he attempted to sue Timelord, but by this stage Timelord was no longer accepting his PM's - so Joeker started numerous threads asking Timelord to respond.

It got to the stage at which there were enough of these threads that it was disrupting the site, so Gareth gave him a warning to stop, or he would be banned. When he started a new Timelord thread despite this warning, Gareth banned him for two days. After the two days, he logged back on, started another Timelord thread, and as a result he was banned permanently.

Unfortunately, it seems like he has blamed the entire Autistic rights movement for this, rather than just blaming Timelord.

As anyone to click on the link recently knows, the petition that is linked to this thread... No longer works, as the petition has been deleted. This is because I was both convinced by others that the petition wasn't justified, and also due to a discovery both unpleasent and revealing. Timelord established his own petition to do what I was doing, only more forcefully and thoroughly, and thus I deleted the petition out of sadness, anger, a sense of betrayl, and apathy.

I think this is disgusting how Phil's decided to make a war out of you. I can hardly say I didn't see it coming; It's what he did with me. He wants you to pick a side, to get you on his side, so on. Frankly, I don't want you to be forced into anything. This is your life, your choices for you to make. Don't pick either of us, please.

As for that PM...

We were arguing, but neither of us are innocent in that. He omits everything of his own actions there.

He told his real life friends to harass me. They said as much.

Borusa was very eager. Very. And groups are punished equally. The ones to commit, the ones to commision, the ones to aid and abet.

Two wrongs do not make a right. If he wanted it right, he'd have come to talk himself. He would not have sent people with the express purpose to harass me. He's no cleaner than his actions. And if you were to choose my side(which is something I don't want you to do, for either side), you'd see just how founded it would be.

Provocation isn't just for you, you know. Provoking people is something you're quite good at. It doesn't matter how far you distance yourself, Phil. The arm of the law is known as being long for a reason. And since you're the one behind this one, and your previous harassment... I'll let you figure it out.

Something we can agree on, that we don't want to drag you into this. As I said, don't take a side. As for what he has to say about me... There's wishful thinking, and truth interlaced within each other. Have I, as he put it, flipped my lid? I don't think so...
As for my ban, I was banned by Gareth for breaking a promise to him. If Gareth wants to detail that promise, then he's free to. I was the one who made the promise. And I broke it, knowing full well the consequences. Why? Because I was bound either way to lose something, and I'd prefer my honest word to my ethics.

A lot of members thought you were half-cracked, Timelord. That's a quote, so don't accuse me of anything. You drove people away from you. And you insulted anyone to disagree. You still do, simply because you insult anyone who doesn't believe your views of John Best, painting him as a Curebie Nazi. You're coming back, with an "I told you so" attitude, and only one thing on your mind other than me; Insulting John Best.
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It seems that it was thanks to my own blog that Phil's back... I'm ashamed.

This conflict is fraught with inaccuracies, and many errors. I'm not wanting to add to them. There'd have been nothing on AFF regarding this conflict if Phil had been man enough to talk to me. He refused to be a mature adult and talk things through, and caused me to try to contact him to no avail.

As well, the thing that banned me permanently was in fact a response I had to Timelord, regarding the things he was telling people. He was insulting them over me. I couldn't justify myself to not say anything to Timelord on our argument, and I broke my promise to Gareth doing so. I interceded, and was banned. I'm not trying to hide my ban actively. I've missed AFF. But I don't want people to swallow misconceptions to the point where they become fact.

I'm blaming lots of people, and there's many I can blame. Timelord did things in the name of many; Neurodiversity, All Aspies, Autistics, and Amanda Baggs. I even had a chance to speak with her, completely out of the blue while I was commenting on youtube. And she wasn't in support of his actions in her name. She told me again here when I made a post about his latest harassment.

I didn't want to bring any of this back in. I just wanted to talk about this thread. It seems I can't do even that without Timelord popping up.

intresting
i recieved another pm from timelord giving his side of the story

The title is what you said on the forum, and I'll answer this as best I can in the shortest possible way;

Basically it boils back to his blog, "Blog of Many Trades" and his handling of certain issues with my own website Wiki.

The problem began with an article on an LFA called Droopy, who has falsely accused Amanda Baggs of copying her life. A lady called Lisa came onto Joeker's blog and had a go at me about it, ordering me to remove it. She had already been behaving like an idiot on Best's blog - and I called here what she was - a ***. Joeker refused to see that and called on me to retract it. He then added that Droopy was not lying - which caused me to ask him if he thought Amanda was lying. His response of "maybe" caused me to express my disappointment in him in another article on my Wiki.

Joeker flew off the handle accusing me of defamation, and demanded the article be taken down. I refused and challenged him to pursue the defamation charge. To this day he hasn't.

That's how the whole dispute started. It would take too long to go through the whole thing, but if he ever accuses me - or anyone on my behalf - of harassment, the reality is it was in retaliation against him and his refusal to stop mentioning me. The latest is that I have removed the article about him, but I am waiting for him to publicly promise to stop mentioning my name again. He is yet to say anything - but if he refuses, the article goes back up again. I can wait.

It's a shame that you've been caught up in this mess. I'm sure you would agree that it's better to know the facts that be given a pack of lies. That is unfortunately what Joeker has done because he doesn't fully understand the situation as a whole, and won't listen. He's even ended up ignoring the advice he got from "Anita Perez" on his blog - who I found out recently was in fact a friend of mine who is a user on my Wiki, and a social worker in training with a lot of experience with Aspies.

Oh Lord....guys can we stop bringing this up. It really is unnecessary. Can we spare everyone the details? Joker I don't want you banned again. Enjoy the other aspects of this site. Flardox I have told you already where you are not safe to tread. EvilZakkie....ummmm....yup you were about right.
As for me....I just want a sense of equilibrium here rather than wayward and nasty members or ex members starting crap.

I've been getting some PM's from him too. He has something of a history of behind-the-scenes wars, so if you don't want to be stuck in the middle, it's probably best just to block him.

Essentially, there's two issues on this thread - the Joker/Timelord war, and the actual petition.

As far as the Joker/Timelord wars go, it's really a war between two blogs, and has very little to do with the site. It's a shame that Joker has these people attacking him on his blog, but we've suggested all the practical steps he could take, and there's not much else we can do.

I don't think either of them realise that not many people actually read either blog, and their dispute wont actually accomplish much.

As far as the petition goes, I've always thought that it was a really bad idea. The petition will involve months of publicising John Bests site, and then one of two things will happen:

1) It wont work, and he'll prance and gloat about it for a long while.
2) It will work, and he'll move to a different blog site, complete with a new set of followers and an image of being a martyr to the cause.

The best way to harm John Best is by not giving him publicity or new material - i.e. don't publicise him, and don't insult him to the extent that he can make another rant out of it.

At the end of the day, he's not a very convincing writer, and he's unlikely to influence public opinion. In other words, there's plenty of bigger fish to fry.

To summarise this whole thread, everything that's happened here is about a small group of angry bloggers fighting amongst themselves, and anyone else getting involves will only extend the conflict.

*grins* Well put - you beat me to it...

Uh I have no idea if this has anything to do with the Joeker Timelord thing, but when I clicked on the link to the petition it didn't show up.

sorry i dragged it all up again i was just a bit confused by it oh well

This sounds like serious business, but I'm not sure if you are going to solve it by posting your side of the story in this thread. It reminds me of when Simen and I began fighting on AFF about "he said, she said" (except no she) about a thread in norwegian.

oh oyuv'e had arguments with him too?

That's right, Yoshi. I deleted the petition after Timelord created a new one. If I hadn't wiped the discussion forum, then you'd know why. Timelord's started a new one, one of his own. He used me. He used the same site I used, because I found it for him. Before, he commented he had trouble finding a site that could do what this one did, and that's what kept him from making the petition.

Eventually, I realized that the petition would just try to deny his Freedom of Spech, thanks to comments from someone called Little Joe. I only deleted it after Timelord made a new one. He even shamelessly used my own words verbatim.

The PM, well, it is biased, but it does kind of outline events if you discard what he think I'm feeling and thinking, since he has no idea. But I apologized for all of that, damn it. I wiped it all clean. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to say anything ever again. He is sorely mistaken to think that my apology means that he's alright to insult LFAs, to try to make every Aspie into someone who agrees with him, to treat people like they don't matter. He was on Hating Autism. If he didn't want to cause a ruckus, and get into fights, he shouldn't have been there in the first place. But as it is, he went in there with the intent of stirring up the posters, and insulting them. I simply turned his own foul words on him. Someone told something emotionally moving about him and his brother, and all Timelord wanted to do was tell him how his brother had been taught to hate himself, and other rot. But I digress, this is all very opinionated.

It's a matter of picking which side is right with this argument, and, as he said, it's best to not have more people get involved. I keep saying, don't pick either side. But what does it say about his intentions if he's PMing people, while I'm being completely open? I've nothing to hide. Why does he?

Rossco, Zakkie, I agree. I hope this will be the last thing I need to post about this. If it's not, I'm going to move it elsewhere, off of AFF.

(yawn) I wonder what is on TV? Dishes to do.

I just tried to sign- but neither of the OP's links worked...

I'll just watch telly as well.No, should I watch re-runs of Buzzcocks on Dave or an old Allo Allo DVD? Decisions, decisions...