This has developed to be an interesting conversation..
It's not very unlike feminism / machosism argumentation.  ..and maybe that's closer to the truth then we like to know?
- A normally emotional NT woman has allot of feelings about things. That's good for the the society, the neighbors, for having family and friends. ...it's also good for the household, the husband, the kids and the pets.
- A normally self confident NT man, often has the ability to "cut-trough" all of this "emotional-crap", an make decisions based on his personal judgment. It's often not the perfect or best decision, but it often enough to decide if the household is going to say yes or no to another homeless pet.

I think we need both kind of people, and saying that one thing is wrong or better, would be wrong. ..wouldn't it?!

You are right.

You wrote "AS is like the pre-state of enlightenment". That's the understanding I was looking for in the thread "what is autism". The link between autism/AS and enlightenment. Great!

Did you visit the Osho International Meditation Resort in Pune?

Indeed.. precisely my point!  And sorry for calling you a fool, by the way, that was just an overreaction "in the moment" thing for me..  something I'm very prone to.  They say some Aspies have angry outbursts a lot... I believe I must be one of those.

If I'm going to be honest, I'm going to say I'm still very bothered by such a statement (in bold print) however much truth is to be found there.

I don't think anyone likes to hear they have a "concept of self, still integrated like the infant's world"..  and you can count me as one who really doesn't like to hear that.

That's just my two cents.  If you can either apologize for making the statement (I know that sounds odd, but oh well) or explain it in a different light--by saying that ASers have a "different" view of self/view of world, rather than infant-like--then you and me will get along a lot better.

For right now, I'm depressed from the implications (via your writings)that I'm still infant-like (or child-like) at an advanced age.  To me that's an insult... whenever anyone has said that to me in real life, vocally, it was used as an insult.

I think lonelywolf's comment in the quote is pure crap. I've seen no evidence of this, neither research nor personal experience. I know this isn't my experience. I know there is nothing in the diagnostic criteria that can be used to draw a conclusion like this. I really don't have a clue as to where this kind of thinking comes from.

While I too often find that people use an association with child-like behavior or childishness as a condescending diminutive, I think that it depends largely on the context in which it's used.  I, for one, hate being called "kid" by people even remotely close to my age.  Unless someone is eighty years old, or Indiana Jones, they don't get to call me kid.

In the case of this thread, however, it's merely being used to help illustrate a concept.  While you may not find the allusion to be flattering, there is, as you say, much truth to be found there.  It's clearly not being described to insult or belittle anyone here.

Ultimatums like this, on the other hand, seem doomed to provoke more conflict in what is otherwise a pretty compelling thread.  I mean no disrespect by this, but this thread strikes a pretty personal note for me, and obviously for a lot of other people here too, and this is maybe not the best place to be defending in this manner against what I assure you is an imagined slight.

I would like to add that I think that it's kind of nice to think that one of the things that makes me difference is that my sense of self is a bit more connected to the rest of our surroundings than those of NTs.

I'm not sure if I think that's what's happening, or if it is, if it's what's happening across the spectrum, but it's certainly (baby?)food for thought.  :)

Formation of the self-concept requires a theory of [other] minds, as it is impossible to perceive of oneself as an object outside of oneself directly -- it requires interpreting how others interpret oneself (viewing oneself indirectly).  So autism and an underdeveloped self-concept are linked.

That's what I was saying and I agree here.  Personally I find it almost insulting that such a statement would be made about ASers.

I know AS is a developmental disorder, but I don't believe that that concept lends "truth" to the idea that our concept of self is "stuck in the infant years."  I suppose such a thing could be implied, but to go around saying such a thing--especially when a lot of NTs believe everything they hear--is not helpful.

This is very true. Asperger's and PDD-NOS often see themselves as ugly since they think that people are judging them based on their appearance. I have a friend with PDD-NOS who does this.

You know who you are if you're reading this!

In reality it is the lack of outward expression, lack of eye contact, and {in my case} the inconsistent drive/meter of speech and emotion which may actually be the culprits.

Often times people, are simply just people. They don't notice anything at all. If we display worry, it causes those around us to worry.

Well then I would like to "un-say" that statement because I have erred.  Truly, I don't really follow this kind of thinking.  For one thing, I would never refer to people who have a neurodiverse condition as child-like or infantile, nor would I say that some of their concepts (sp. of self) are stuck in an infant's world, etc.

That's just my two cents, and I know people will disagree (as you have, veebles.)  In this case we'll agree to disagree, and I'm certainly fine with doing that.

Yes, you might say that scientific literature/AS research indicates that "infant-like" is accurate in this case, but I choose to interpret that a different way, and that's my right.  After all it is not the researchers who deal with Asperger's every day--it's the people who have the condition.

Why differentiate between Asperger's and PDD-NOS?  That's not an important distinction, and some who have PDD-NOS probably have Asperger's; and vice versa.

It bothers me that people think I'm more PDD-NOS because I'm extremely poor at classic Aspie strengths like Math, Science, Academics (I did horribly in school because I couldn't comprehend the materials, at least not fast enough.)  But then that could also mean 3 things:

1) I could be AS with comorbid ADD
2) I could have a lot of learning problems along with my AS (certain learning disabilities like dyscalculia are common)
3) I could have more profound Executive Dysfunction, than others

The other thing is that folks tell me I don't think logically/practically.  True enough, I seem to be more impulsive/distractible, and common sense (logic/pragmatism) is skipped over.  But I don't see why this would be so uncommon.

My research shows that some with AS may be "more right-brained" or "creative/divergent-thinking," instead of logical/practical.

If I understand things correct, you like me, is a grown up man with a god portion of social experience and history of trying to adapt and fit in. Could it be that some of the original symptoms and criteria for a secure diagnosis is disturbed, manipulated or even created by this "wrong kind of" social stimuli?

I'm more like a dog.  In fact, my best friend thought the matter over and pronounced me a border collie.