Not all Aspies are good at maths - that's a stereotype we really have to get away from.

First question, would those with Avoidant PD (without AS) have trouble understanding nonverbal cues such as facial expression, or "subtext" in social situations?

Secondly, would those with Avoidant PD (without AS) exhibit a deficiency in theory of mind?
(Quick defintion of "theory of mind": the concept that those around you think the same way, have the same wants, needs, desires, etc.)

Third, is it conceivable that many Aspergians have comorbid Avoidant PD, or at least a lot of traits resembling it?
One example of an Asperger's trait also found in Avoidant PD is rigid, inflexible routines, obsessive hobbies, etc, (sticking with the familiar), preferring the known to the unknown, etc.

It looks like there's a lot of overlapping between Asperger's and Avoidant PD, and to the untrained eye (without examining the subject's developmental history, etc.) it looks like someone with Asperger's could easily be misdiagnosed as simply Avoidant Personality Disorder.

One last important question here is if Asperger's children or Avoidant PD children are more likely to have trouble with self-help skills and adaptive behaviors.

I definitely have had some delays with self-help skills and certain adaptive behaviors, but I don't see how Avoidant PD can figure in that... Avoidant PD is not involved in cognition, and should be separate from that.

And yet what's confusing is this:  Asperger's kids are not supposed to have trouble with self-help skills or adaptive behaviors, and yet I had some minor delays here and there, often related to spatial/dyspraxic problems (learning how to fix a tie at the right age, covering books in school, tying shoes a bit late, holding utensils the wrong way, folding shirts improperly.)

Is this correct, are those early memories an Asperger trait? I have very early memories.

This thread has confused me, like some of you. Until now I see myself as probably borderline Aspie.

I have 1 or 2 special interests. I tend to behave like a hermit. My reasons to avoid social contact are, in the right order: fear, lack of interest, lack of social skills.

People who are visual thinkers (rather than verbal ones), as well as autistic people, who often tend to have strong sensory memories (as opposed to remembering abstractions of those sensory impressions), usually have memories going back to well before they could speak.

Most NTs on the other hand tend to remember only from an age where their thinking had become verbal (usually when they learned to talk).

In fact there is a huge overlap with NVLD and that usually brings with it specific LDs in maths as well.

Thanks Noetic. What I remember is labelling things as not interesting, before I could walk, and I walked around 1.

I hope it's not forbidden to quote from the ICD-10:

(Italics are mine)
I read it like this: If – because of AS – you are experiencing "problems of social performance" and therefore "personal distress" you could develop APD in consequence.
The question for me is whether the "hypersensitivity to rejection and criticism" applies to verbal and nonverbal clues of your vis-a-vis – I'd never get nonverbal clues unless hit in the face .
For "habitual exaggeration of the potential dangers" you would need some Theory of Mind, I guess.

So then I would assume NVLD often includes problems with sequencing?  Or is that more Dyspraxia?

I had some "strange" problems with Math.  If I was taught something in the same day and learned it properly, it seemed like I "got it" and the person teaching me was convinced I was actually pretty smart.

But then 1-2 days later I would forget everything I learned, almost as if I hadn't been taught the lesson in the first place.  In such a case, if I had to apply the specific material, I'd have to find a way to re-trigger it in my mind (associatively) or I would have no chance of being correct.

I must have Theory of Mind, then.

What now?

Noetic, what is NVLD? I do not know what that means. This might be making it harder to isolate a diagnosis of Asperger's.

As for avoidant personality disorder, that description above fits me perfectly: however, I showed enough other symptoms of Aspergers to be diagnosed with it instead.

Batman55, I think the symptoms of Avoidant Personality on the surface look very much aspects of Asperger's. Asperger's people are usually very aware that they have issues with social interaction, wish to be liked and accepted, but don't know exactly how to achieve this. Even when they "copy" NT behaviours, it often seems rather stilted and formal.

I guess that means that your "case" cannot be decided by just looking at the above-mentioned symptom.

What about "hypersensitivity to rejection and criticism". If (e. g. in a meeting) someone (your boss) states something truly stupid, do you (a.) nod approvingly or do you (b.) tell him/her the truth?
[a. could mean NT, APD or shy Aspie, b. would mean Aspie – or someone who really wants to get the bosses position by "turning him/her over"]

If the boss states something really stupid, I would either just sit there and not react or maybe fidget and draw on a piece of paper. I wouldn't nod approvingly if it was idiotic and I wouldn't say it was stupid because I don't think it would be my place to do that.

It's definitely A.  I tend to be extra careful around bosses.  In general I usually suppress what I really think.  I do worry about what others think of me, there's no doubt.  

I really want to make all social interaction "smooth" and "painless" and "conflict-free."  To some degree acting formally (I tend to have a very restrained, formal approach to things) allows me to achieve this, and I'm bothered when I have to "break character" if someone with a narcissistic/sarcastic personality comes along.  Those types of people are very "abstract" in their behavior and I can't really gauge what's going on, what they really mean (social subtext), etc.

Batman said:

  We'll get along great, then.

<hugs>

Athie
who should go to bed, probably