Hi all,

I think my aspie son may be taking a turn for the worse.

Diagnosed at age 6, he's now 11 years old. Had all the usual aspie stuff, not noticing body language and thinking literally and all the usual stuff with the syndrome. Now seems to have taken a turn for the worse and I do not know exactly what to do.

All of a sudden and just last week he started having temper tantrums. These are not the kicking, screaming, banging the desk kind, rather they are exceptionally violent, lasting anywhere from an hour to over a day.

I notice a violent stage of property destruction and vile verbal language getting worse as he gets more agitated. I just had a couple windows in my house broken after throwing things through them. Then he has this catatonic state that lasts until everything calms, about half hour. Other time he acts completely bizarre, silly and so forth a few hours and then calms down. It happened when we grounded him for cursing three days ago. My husband had to wrestle him to the ground so he wouldnt flip over the table. That was the first. The third was just yesterday after I and my husband got in an argument about a bill (nothing even about him) we had received. He was in his room. We started arguing in living room. Before I knew he had the bedroom window busted. He ran outside and we find him walking the street during night. He also threatened violence and suicide. My husband argues with him after we find him. He talks about torturing some rabbit he finds. Then tells my husband if he doesnt shut up that he will stab himself with a knife. Husband tells him -then kill yourself if you want to do it.- He doesnt harm himself and then throws a book at my husband chest.

He had three episodes of this. This stuff just started. Never had anything like this before. Im quite scared.

Is there any medications that can ease these meltdowns? Has had minor meltdowns before, yelling and banging his hands and whatever. Nothing like this.

I suspect this is adolescence complicated by asperger's/autism.  My son was not diagnosed until he was 17, but I remember his behavior spinning out of control at age 11-13. A couple of times, he became physically aggressive with me and his property destruction took on new dimensions.  He was arrested, the schools tried to expell him and he was completely friendless.  

Medications were tried and discarded because they either did nothing or exacerbated his agitation.  However, in the middle of all this, we enrolled him in wrestling.  He was really great at it and focussed all his energy in the only sport he really seemed to love.  Another positive benefit was that it provided a way for him to earn respect from other kids and boosted his social confidence a lot.  For the next couple of years he wrestled every chance he got until he got to high school and was excluded due to poor grades.  

In other words, maybe it would be helpful to your kid to  find an acceptable physical activity to channel that hormonally driven pubescent rage.  It is of course not an instant fix, but it made a huge difference in our son.

Gwyn

Is the boy being bullied at school? Has anything changed with this child's relationships? Has the boy been placed on any new drug rececently?

I have kids of a similar age group to this boy who all have some autistic traits, but we've never had this kind of stuff happen. Sure our kids are very boisterous and argumentative. No one in our family is on any psych drugs of any kind. Your situation sounds like something very extreme.

Ever tried rock climbing?  It's a nice, non-social, physical activity, it teaches problem-solving, and it's a great way to develop the mind and body.  Very therapeutic for whatever stress you're feeling at the moment.

I agree about trying rock climbing if possible -
this link has a video about it, at the bottom http://www.autisticculture.com/autisticv...ntary.html


I think it could be puberty related, but would definitely look at new changes like possible bullying, his own fears or confusion about puberty too.

Have you been having more arguments with your husband lately, seems that could be a possible trigger too. If he is already feeling very sensitive then little things could be enough to tip the balance.
You must tell your husband not to say things like 'kill yourself then'. I cannot stress that strongly enough. Your husband may be upset at the stabbing comment, but it was coming from a very upset child and does not deserve retaliation.

In my own experience the best way to handle these situations are to be as calm as possible and do anything to keep it calm, there is no point shouting or telling him off when he is upset. It will just make it worse and he will not understand what you mean, its better to talk about it calmly and go through it later when he has completely calmed down.

Talk through this with your husband too, as it is not unknown for young people to self harm, or think of suicide, and they need a lot of support.

Yes ... I have had serious problems with bullying. Kids are like teasing him and doing things getting him in trouble and more. He has received detention on occasion for things he claims he never has done.

I am trying to find a better school next year. The principal hates me. I had him as teacher when I was student years ago. I hated him then. I hate him now.  I am waiting for the day when he will get expelled. I just am.

Could this be the trigger? He sits and reads during lunch breaks. Does not want to bother anyone. Kids come up to him and start abusing him. I have had some physical contact issues.

I used to believe what teachers told me so I ended up scolding my son. I am really wondering now if I had done him any harm.

He claims to not want friends. His friends at home are younger than he is, and he goes down to their level. I am trying to break him of that, but he thinks it's all funny being with six year olds and acting silly. Own peer age kids, though. He talks like an adult more than a peer, really. He likes TV shows for adults, not kids. Doesn't have interest in comics and cartoons and stuff his age. Doesn't even like most teen stuff. Claims he will never get married. Claims he doesn't see things the way most kids do.

I posted about the drug Concerta. I wonder if that could be the problem.

Sounds like the bullying is a major factor. Please face the situation and get him into a better school, if you hated that teacher dont put your son through the same.
Please.

No wonder the poor kid is having meltdowns from the stress!  A different school might help, and perhaps you and your husband might think about a) not arguing, or
b) arguing only when you're sure your son can't overhear it.
My mum and dad having arguments were contributing factors to really awful tantrums in my teens; the angry screeching and buzzing was enough to make me want to throw myself off the roof.
Alison

I hope you and your family can find a solution for these issues, and sooner rather than later.

I know from talking with family members and friends of my own generation that all of us have vivid memories of our adolescence, and quite a few of us still look back with resentment at things that our parents did wrong, or neglected to do, during that time of our lives. Things that you do now might set the tone of your relationship with your son when he is an adult.

Be very careful about psychiatric drugs. Sometimes they help, sometimes they're ineffective, and sometimes they can have very dangerous effects: suicidal ideation, agitation, sudden outbursts, etc. If these things have only started or only become severe while on the drug, that could very likely be the problem. It would be a good idea to see the prescribing doctor for advice on how to taper off (going off it suddenly, I can tell you first-hand, can make everything worse--much much MUCH worse).

Keep in mind, also, that not every doctor is familiar with all possible side effects of the drugs they prescribe and may dismiss concerns about what the drug could be doing. When I approached my doctor about some very serious side effects (including suicidal ideation) from an antidepressant, he doubled the dose, thinking it couldn't be an effect of the drug, and things got considerably worse. I went off suddenly and experienced a hellish withdrawal (even though they say they aren't habit-forming, withdrawal can be very significant). The doctor seemed to think the med couldn't possibly have caused what I told him I thought it was causing, yet later I saw reports in the news that the majority of antidepressants (I think Prozac was the exception) doubled the risk of suicidal ideation.

Also keep in mind that even though--in all likelihood; I wasn't there--he wasn't seriously considering killing himself, that doesn't mean it couldn't get serious. And don't ever feel afraid to ask if he's thinking about hurting himself; I read all the time about how that is a good thing to do, that it won't give the person ideas about considering it. Having felt suicidal at young ages (still here and happily living life!), it always was a relief when my parents brought it up, even when I would feel uncomfortable and not want to talk too much about it.

I've read several accounts of people on ADHD medications who uncharacteristically began to harm animals, which is something very serious.

Please consider what I've written in addition to everyone else's input; I'm hoping for the best for you and your son.

Something like zopiclone (I'm on that), or a benzo would work well for short term, blazing hell-comes-up type occasions, and far safer than neuroleptic medication, (D2 antagonists/antipsychotics), although clinically, antipsychotics are used for just that sort of situation.

They do however, make one feel (or rather, the antithesis of feeling anything at all), like one of the walking dead, and benzos or one of the newer imidazole nonbenzo sedatives are actually pleasant to use, and have far less side effects, so long as addiction is not developed.

I would avoid zolpidem though, that stuff, crazy, completely insane stuff, the prescribed dose (10mg) had me TRIPPING hard, and at the end, I remembered little, and it has a great propensity to send people on a pretty heavy trip, where they may do something they later really, REALLY regret.

I would try to go for a GABA agonist though to calm him down, if you must medicate, as opposed to antipsychotics, some (most) have truly horrendous side effect possibilities, and do a fairly effective job of turning someone into a drool-monkey.

Hiya Donna

So sorry you're having an awful time with your son.  I've been in a similar situation with a close family member. Windows have been broken, doors smashed, crockery thrown across the room and he has assulted family members on several occassions.

My advice is to take him out of school RIGHT NOW.  His mental health is more important than his education. Criminals are not allowed to be subected to humilliating or degrading treatment in prison, so why should your boy be subjected to humilliating and degrading treatment by bullies, every day of his school life?

Whilst he is at school being bullied, he is trying very hard to "keep a lid" on his anger but when he is at home, where he feels safer, he will take it out on you and your husband.

When he is being home educated, there is a very good chance that he will start to pursue his own interests, be they literature, computers, history or science.  Some of the most "educated" people that I know dropped out of school in their teens.  Staying at school until one is eighteen does not guarantee that someone will get qualifications or a good education.  However, if your son stays in that awful place there is a very good chance that he will become a very troubled young man and will probably gain very few qualifications anyway.

Another thing that workes, but which is very hard to do, is to never meet his anger with anger.  When his is about to throw a meltdown it is because he is overwhelmed and reacting to him will just add more "fuel to the fire".  

I know that you and your husband are only human, that you want to react when he says hurtful things, when he start slamming doors, when he raises his voice, when he shoves you out of the way.

The phrase I use is "That's not acceptable to me and I'm not going to deal with you right now," and then I leave the room.  You are not "backing down" or "letting him get away with it".  By saying that you find his behaviour unacceptable you have already criticised him.  Aspie types are more sensitive to criticism than us NTs so believe me, you've already said enough.

It does not matter if you miss a television programme, it does not matter that the food is going cold on the table (as long as the cooker is turned off!) you have to put his needs first.

When you leave him he will probably start "trashing" the room. At least he is not hitting you or your husband.  In anticipation of this, if you have any breakable valuables I suggest that you pack them away somewhere safe where he does not have easy access.  Only use crockery that you don't mind being broken.  Put safety film over windows to stop prevent him hurting himself if he puts his fist through them. If you have antique furniture I suggest you put it into storage for the next ten years.

Go to Amazon (or similar) and get some books on the subject of Aspergers.  I found Maxine Aston's "Aspergers in Love" to be very insiteful, even though it is was not written for parents of Aspie kids.

Remember, your world view is very different to his.  The things that you find acceptable, he finds intolerable and visa versa.

Everything I've said is based on my own family experience.  Of course, you might feel that the advice is not right for you or your situation.  One thing that is in your favour is that at least you know that your son has Aspergers.

Good luck Donna - from someone whose been there.

Cybermintz wrote

Have a look at the book "Cradles of eminence", and you'll see that many people who went on to become great and eminent people did not like school, were home-schooled or dropped out of school. There's a whole chapter in the book about how much school does not seem to be compatible with truly great and original thinkers, which kinda makes me wonder why we have schools ...

Cybermintz wrote

I think this is going too far to accomodate very bad behaviour. I do not believe autism is an excuse for violence or out of control anger (and I regard myself as an aspie). Sure, it is obvious to me that "anger control" is an area that is a challenge to most aspies, but it is a parent's duty to discipline a child when they are still young and small enough to be under their control. If they don't they could be creating a monster! No child should grow up with the idea that throwing crockery is normal or tolerable behaviour, because it just isn't. Having an aspie child is not an excuse for "dropping your load" with regard to disciplining your child. A tap on the tush never hurt any kid.

I got my daughter a punching/kick boxing bag and put it up in the back yard for those days when she just wants to kick her frustrations out.  A bo staff (length of bamboo) is also a good release for her, she can use it to practise various martial art moves to help her calm down.  She now has an area under the pine trees in our back yard that she uses as a personal dojo, and it really helps her to wind down after a school day dealing with the norms and idiots.
Alison

Hello again Donna!

What's the situation been like at your home for the last few weeks?