One of the wikipedia articles dealing with Aspergers refers to the term "cousins" for persons who are not diagnosed with Aspergers but who share some of the symptoms of that diagnosis.  I did not find any articles on this site which deals with this issue, although there are some forum postings which address it to some extent.

It seems to me that if the idea of an autism spectrum is to be taken seriously, there should not be a need to draw lines, and to say that some people are inside the line, and others are outside of the line.  There is simply a continuum from one end of the spectrum to the other.  There may in fact be several or even many spectrums which are involved and different people may fall on different parts of each spectrum. I understand that there is a desire by many people to create categories, and to try to divide the world into clearly delineated categories.  The real world is not that dichotomous.  

A lot of the postings on this forum deal with the question of who is or is not on the spectrum. I would like to see an article which discusses the idea that labeling people as being inside or out side of an arbitrary line is not helpful, and that each person should be dealt with as a unique individual. I would like to hear from others on this idea.

:wink:

You are right to say that there are no natural cut-off points in the autism spectrum.

However, it is necessary to create diagnostic categories in order to gain access to special education, services, social support and welfare benefits where this is desirable and necessary.

Stella is making a very important point here and what she mentioned above, always needs to be taken into consideration. NB!

However, some of the Asperger 'cousins' was studied by Annemarie Roeper:
http://www.roeperconsultation.com/characteristics.htm

and you can read this literature:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0910707...oding=UTF8

These two threads cover the subject:

http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/phpBB2/v...b347649ab3

http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/phpBB2/v...60b788e68f

Hope it helps!

Thanks for posting cousin. Do you consider yourself to be a cousin, and if so, what parts of autism do you have?
Personally, I usually refer to people as having 'aspie traits' if they have some elements of aspergers, rather than use the term cousin, as I think its less well known, and cousin is a common word in use so could cause confusion.

You said -

It seems to me that if the idea of an autism spectrum is to be taken seriously, there should not be a need to draw lines, and to say that some people are inside the line, and others are outside of the line.

Professionals in autism have declared that autism is a spectrum condition, so it is 'official' and certainly is taken seriously. I think most of us agree that it is a spectrum condition. There is a set criteria for autism and aspergers, and without diagnosis a lot of us would not get specific help such as help in school, as Stella said. Autism and aspergers are technically an impairment, so if someone is not impaired, and just has some traits, they will not get, and will not need a diagnosis. That's the medical reason for diagnosis.

In the real world of course, there are people with mild traits, strong traits, some people actually get diagnosed with traits, but not a full diagnosis, and people abilities can get better or worse with age.
A cut off point is used diagnostically. Online people can self diagnose, and that is not questioned, it is up to the individual to determine how they feel.
Someone coulf self diagnose as a cousin, though that is rare. If you posted here and said that show you felt, I think people would be accepting of that, the same as of NTs who post here.

There is simply a continuum from one end of the spectrum to the other. There may in fact be several or even many spectrums which are involved and different people may fall on different parts of each spectrum. I understand that there is a desire by many people to create categories, and to try to divide the world into clearly delineated categories. The real world is not that dichotomous.

At some point though, that continuum becomes 'normal'. Some people feel that everyone is a bit autistic, I do not hold that view at all. Everyone is not a bit gay, everyone is not a bit diabetic, everyone is not a bit of a football fan.

A lot of the postings on this forum deal with the question of who is or is not on the spectrum. I would like to see an article which discusses the idea that labeling people as being inside or out side of an arbitrary line is not helpful, and that each person should be dealt with as a unique individual. I would like to hear from others on this idea.


In an ideal world we would never need labels, but as it stands now, we do need many labels. Each person should be dealt with as an individual, that is right.

I wonder though, how people who are cousins, or just have traits, stand on the issues of minority rights, on Autistic Pride Day, and on abuse of autistics.
Do they feel separated from those issues, or do they feel fully a part of it and support changing the world?

Amy wrote:
In an ideal world we would never need labels, but as it stands now, we do need many labels. Each person should be dealt with as an individual, that is right.

--> cousin:

I just thought of saying that I hate the "labelling phenomenon" personally, however as Amy said above, there is a place for it.

Consider this view to make things clear from our angle: It would be very unfair for an autistic/AS person to be considered "pathological", "mentally ill" or "stupid" by society, where actually he/she has a different neurological type of functioning. Once this is diagnosed and pointed out, people become understanding of that person because they realise he/she has a physical "handicap" causing their behaviour, rather than having some kind of "mental" or "behavioural" problem.

Unfortunately, the symptoms and behavior of autism is often confused with other "mimicking" conditions and disorders out there, and it becomes necessary to draw a clear line between what behaviour is caused by hard wired neurological condition and what by psychological condition.

This of course does not make autistic/AS individuals immune to having psychological problems. However, mental health problems in those on the autistic spectrum are often as a result of their autism.

Hi Cousin
Welcome to AFF.  I don't have an official diagnosis but based on a reflection of my life, my mother's descriptions of me as a child, and various reading, including this forum, I'm confident that I'm on the spectrum someplace. Probably PDD-NOS or NVLD if I had to label myself.  Much of what is said here I can relate to, and some of it I don't. But just about anyone could make the same statement because we're all individuals. This forum has been especialy good for "consciousness raising", a term used often in the 70s.  To answer Amy's questions, I'm still pondering, and have begun to "come out" which is one way of furthering the agenda of improving rights for autistics--show people real people.

Mental health problems in those on the autistic spectrum are often as a result of "normal" people's reactions to their autism!

Thanks to all for your prompt responses. They are helpful.

I self identify as a cousin or as having "aspie traits" because I have a nephew who has been diagnosed with Aspergers.  He is considered to be fairly "high functioning" even among aspies, but his traits affect his life much more than mine do. I have a tendency toward literalism, paradoxically combined with a a strong tendency toward word play. I am somewhat inept socially, but I do not have a problem talking with people one on one, even strangers, especially about topics which interest me. If I end up at a party with a lot of people I do not know, I do not try to strike up conversations with strangers.  I am more likely to end up sitting alone somewhere, but I do talk to anyone who approaches me. I do not have a big problem with sensory overload, but some types of touching bother me quite a bit. I have a flat affect, and do not experience big swings in mood. I did not get married until age 39, and had very few girl friends before that, although I am physically attractive and above average intelligence, and generally cheerful. That was always a mystery to me until recent years. I tend to be a systematizer, and view the world through an intellectual framework, rather than an emotional one. But I am capable of understanding what other people are thinking, at least in most situations.

I tend to disagree with Amy on one point. Human sexuality is very much a spectrum. Surveys of human sexual behavior show that there are many shades of behavior, and that we do not all fit into the pre-defined categories which society has carved out for us. Sure, some individuals are at the extreme end of the spectrum away from homosexuality, but there are many people in the middle of that spectrum as well.

I tend to disagree with Amy on one point. Human sexuality is very much a spectrum. Surveys of human sexual behavior show that there are many shades of behavior, and that we do not all fit into the pre-defined categories which society has carved out for us. Sure, some individuals are at the extreme end of the spectrum away from homosexuality, but there are many people in the middle of that spectrum as well.



Well you agree that not all people are a little bit 'insert any condition/personality/sexuality here'?

Amy, let me start by endorsing the following statement you made, and which I should have endorsed in my last post:

I wonder though, how people who are cousins, or just have traits, stand on the issues of minority rights, on Autistic Pride Day, and on abuse of autistics. Do they feel separated from those issues, or do they feel fully a part of it and support changing the world?

I suspect that many people who have Aspie traits, but who are able to pass for "normal," are not fully committed to equal rights. Sometimes this may be the result of ignorance.  Other times it may result from a desire to avoid being labeled. While I have not been specifically active in the area of austistic rights in the past, I have always been supportive of equal rights for all minority groups, and an opponent of abusive treatment of anyone.

That said, I do still stand by my view of the way that spectrums work.  Consider a spectrum which ranges from absolute black on one end, to absolute white on the other end. Except for the very ends of the spectrum, every other portion of the spectrum will have at least some black and some white in it. I think that the analogy to human behavior is obvious.

Clearly, that does not "prove" that a human spectrum condition follows the same rules as an artificial construct like a spectrum.  The question of whether some degree of autism is present in all (or the vast majority) of humans is ultimately an empiracal question which will need to be decided by researchers. Until that research has been done, my personal belief is that the concept of a spectrum applies to human behavior.  My statement was not intended as a personal attack against you.

I know you are not attacking me.
I enjoy friendly intelligent debate. :smile:

I think your metaphor of black to white spectrum doesn't apply with autism, and also my reason for thinking that everyone is not a bit autistic, is that autism is not one thing.
To use a representation, autism is a recipe of the things on the diagnostic criteria, only people who have the 3 elements of that recipe are autistic, this is usually deemed by the 'triad of impairments'. If someone only has traits its like making a cake with just a few of the ingredients. Its different.

Everyone in the world does not have the whole recipe for autism, they may have some traits, but traits are not autism. If autism is the cake, some NTs will have flour, some may have sugar, but thats not a cake, and its not a little bit of cake.

Maybe people actually mean that a lot of people can have traits that autistic people have. Which is actually quite different than everyone is a bit autistic.

To me its like saying everyone is a bit deceased because sometimes people close their eyes. Some elements that appear similar do not make a condition.

I can swim but I'm not a fish. I'm not even a mermaid.

I'm not very good with the metaphor type thing but I hope my thoughts come across.

Some people may think 'why does it matter if people think everyone is a bit autistic'. I think it matters because that type of thinking has been used in the past to allow abuses of human rights to continue and to dismiss our needs and the needs of others.

If people think that everyone is basically the same, and that they know how we feel, then they expect autistic children to understand that being locked in a time out means that they need to calm down, of course we see often that the children are experiencing terror, anxiety, confusion and have no idea how to calm down when locked into a cupboard on their own.

That's just one example.

Another would be the expectation from society that inside an autistic person is a 'normal' person who wants to be released.

I think one needs to remember the basis of autism, which is not so much the behaviour of the person, but rather the aspects that cause the behaviour.

In order to be on the autistic spectrum, an individual must be affected by the "triad of impairments", which is a phenomenon unique to the "label" of autism.

Research has shown that a weak central coherence as well as theory of mind problems and specific problems with information processing are unique to autism and this is seen by professionals as a neurological handicap.

These last mentioned aspects cause an autistic individual to have communication problems, stereotyped behaviour patterns, social ineptness and the tendency of focusing on and developing very specific interests. These are the behaviours that are shared among 'cousins' and all other humans for that matter.

But autism, as such, is obviously a spectrum condition, which means some individuals on the spectrum are more affected by these problems than others.

Humans are either on the spectrum, or they are not, depending on the results of cognitive testing for autism. (This is very involved and needs to be executed by a professional like a neuro psychologist. It is also very tedious and expensive). However, the results can help the individual as it points out where their specific cognitive weaknesses are and how to work towards improvement. It also helps the person finding the right therapist, should therapy be necessary.

But.. just because a person is behaving awkwardly, has social problems and comes across eccentric does not put them onto the autistic spectrum.

So essentially, unless a person has a weak central coherence and matches the triad of impairments, he is not on the autistic spectrum.

That obviously does not mean he may not be a supporter of minority rights or become a member of such.

Hey Amy, we must have been typing our messages at the same time  :lol:   :lol:

But you beat me to it by about 14 minutes! Show's you how slooooooow my brain processes...  :lol:

Amy, the cake metaphor is good--a very different image than a color spectrum. The spectrum might come in with respect to severity of impairments -- mild to debilitating.

However, based on what I've read, the triad of impairments does not seem to me to be precisely defined.  Also, whether difficulties in one or more of the areas of social interaction, communication or imagination are sufficiently noteworthy as to count as impairments might be context-dependent. When I told a longstanding friend that I believed I was mildly autistic, her response was to say that I was incredibly left-brained but did not meet the criteria.  When I described my childhood to her, she said, "well, maybe you were then, but you're not now."

If the brain is plastic, then even if the developmental wiring is different in autistics, I think that something like compensatory rewiring can happen--the brain, and the person, find or learn alternative approaches to interaction, communication and imagination such that abilities are gained--the abilities might be different from what neurotypical folks have, but they are nonetheless abilities.  Example:  lack of empathy does not preclude a person from being a highly attentive listener.

There are as yet no bio-medical tests for autism, so the diagnostic concept of ASD is wholly based on observed behaviour in social interactions etc.

If we imagine a hypothetical person who somehow had the famous Triad of Impairments but compensated for them in such a way that  the Impairments were no longer perceptible to a trained observer such as a clinician, then that person could not be said to be autistic as things stand at the moment.