Disclaimer: Not meant to upset or offend anyone. For some reason I had the need to leave my bed before sleep would fall upon me and express out of my head. Then, I "felt" the need to find a cpu with internet access asap and post. My stupid neurosis. I LOVE IT AND THEM. (SMILE)

Please and thank you in advance if you can and will take the time to read. I would like to express, for me personally with my Aspieness, and not speaking for any others:

An NT designed ASPIE Finder Test Question (Sorry about sarcasm) Example I know most of us have encountered (USA, North America specific version):

AND IT GOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS, AS I REMEMBER:

Sally and Jane are in a room playing. (There are pictures, as I remember correctly – but I am an audiograghic memory, not a photo).

Sally puts a ball on THE chair.

Sally leaves the room.

Jane takes the ball and puts it in THE basket.

Test Question: Where will Sally look for the ball?

Test Answers: IF NT – on the chair - Normal
             IF ASPIE – in the basket - Absurd.

Test Author NT Reasoning for Answers:
Normal – must be because NT understands the absence of Sally, therefore rationalizes an NT can relate that Sally should look for the ball where she had previously left it.

Aspie – NT rationalizes it must be because I read and saw that Jane put ball in basket, therefore NT relates I lack the spatial reasoning to understand the absence of Sally.

ASPIE Reasoning:
1. YOU (author of question) LEFT ME IN THE ROOM WITH JANE, OF COURSE I SAW HER PUT THE BALL IN THE BASKET, I’M NOT STUPID.

2. SALLY NEVER SAID WHERE SHE WAS GOING (HOW RUDE), OR IF SHE’D BE BACK, OTHERWISE I WOULD HAVE TOLD JANE NOT TO TOUCH THE BALL!!

3. IS SALLY BLIND, WHEN SHE ENTERS THE ROOM, SHE WILL SEE THE BALL IS NO LONGER ON THE CHAIR.

4. IS SALLY STUPID, THE ONLY OTHER THINGS IN THE ROOM ARE JANE AND THE BASKET – WHERE ELSE WOULD THE BALL BE FOR HER TO LOOK??????

As and Aspie, I was way more interested in where Sally was going. It was out of a room with only a chair and a basket after all, and Jane didn’t seem much interested in me, she went right for the ball (Smile). So, fundamentally, I as Aspie was off in my wonderland with Sally as soon as she left, and couldn’t even fathom why anyone would want to ask about the room when it was right there in front of them to see and read. Outside the room was what I didn’t know ansdd desperately wanted to ponder.

And this is the BINARY CLUSTER *CURSE WORD* I believe we as Aspies are faced. I can’t even fathom the “WHY” of the test question, never mind formulate an answer, and to try to give the answer an NT sees as acceptable normal is near impossible, if not impractical in my opinion.

Another example of the complication between NT thought process and Aspie thought process, and why the 2 can not understand each others POV, in my opionion. There are 4 different aspects to be considered, yet only 2 are ever factored. Blah, blah, blah. Sorry.

It reminded me of a story by aspie mom I think when a child watching situation for a friend came up and she realized how uninteresting some POV’s really have become. The NT child was singularly focused on the next thing, where as I believe her child was constantly focused on the NOW. I apologize for cross reference (and probably totally wrong author and summary, but that story was wonderful for me to read.

I would realize the possibility that there was another person in the room, so would not be surprised to find that it had been moved and would not automatically assume it was still on the chair.  Especially after working as a preschool teacher for so long.  I'd probably not expect to find it in the room at all, but probably outside, and generally up a tree or on the roof where it had been kicked/thrown.  In one memorable case, it was stuffed down a drain.  
Alison

This post was last modified: 06-30-2012 04:22 AM by Alison.

That really doesn't sound like "NT reasoning", if this is not just a really bad (sorry dude, but huh?) joke, it'sb asically calling NTs retarded. There is no NT reasoning, a small child knows that people and individuals have different reasoning from each other or else all NTs would agree with each other on most things.

You'd have to be stupid to look in the chair if you saw the person leave it in the basket. If someone didnt see them leave it in the basket, it seems random for them to look in the basket, despite being right.

I also totally disagree with there being two distinct "NT" and "aspie" POVs- being in the community there are plenty of times of people understanding each other's POVs across the neurotypes. Some other aspies have explicitly stated tha tthey dont think NTs are *that* much different from them too.

It isn't as if aspies are a different species. It's silly like the whole boy/girl species thing, there's no distinct separate boy and girl reasoning. If you "need" a book to understand the opposite sex, it's called being pathetic.  

Your view of the world is very simple. I noticed you talked about an NT child being so single, but you seem to think the world is very simple and singular..

I may not have properly expressed the example mels8780. The example is actually a question on a test I was given. The "reasonings" I have typed were based on the expected correct and incorrect answers by the author of the test. I am to believe the author is NT. I am to believe the resultant correct or incorrect answers are therefore based on NT reasoning. The correct answer justification and the incorrect answer justification I am in disagreement. I did not answer for the "reason" I was told I had given my answer by the test examiner. I am told I have Aspergers. My Aspie "reasoning" for my answer is different than the NT "reasoning" for my Aspie answer. Hence, the two different POV's. And I also mention that this is specific for me and my "feelings". I am not speaking for "Aspies", nor am I speaking for NT's - I am giving a specific example of difference between One who has defined themselves as NT (test author) and One who has been labeled as Aspie (myself). So how you can be so "simple and singular" in your generalizations is actually baffling and childish to me. Let me know when you have a mature comment directly involving yourself, or directly applied to the example as posted. And if the best you can do is say I am basically calling NT's retarded, I believe that is what NT's are calling me. I am not making accusations, just that my POV is drastically different than anyones, NT or NOT. They are the ones who have labeled me an Aspergers, all I have known myself as is Mike Silva.

This post was last modified: 07-09-2012 08:50 AM by MikeSilva.

Now that I know you are only 16, I will apologize for being upset with you. I will not hold your age against you, and your comments are not as well thought out as I was expecting from someone with such defined opinions. Also, I will take into account my story may not have been properly set up. I am disappointed tho, that you find my being simple and singular not complicated enough for your wanted view of society. Too bad life really is simple and singular, and NT's and Aspie (apparently) are more interested in complication and quagmire.

Scientific studies have found a very distinct difference in the way boys and girls think and interact with the world, their environment and each other.  And having worked in the field for so many years, I have to agree that the two genders vary enormously and from a very young age.  Some it could be nurture, but a lot of it I believe to be nature.  

Also, bit harsh to say somebody is pathetic when they're trying to sort out something alien to their specific neuroculture and using any method, ie books, to educate themselves.  I studied a book on body language cover to cover and slowly have managed to imitate a few of the more common NT body expressions, which makes it easier for me in social situations.  Even though it still does not come naturally.  Am I then "pathetic" because I try to fit in with the dominant culture?

Alison

This post was last modified: 07-09-2012 02:54 PM by Alison.

Thank you for your candor Alison. And for making an example with yourself in my defense. I am trying with all my resolve to take a neutral and nurturing POV while having discourse on AFF. You all here have a calming effect provided by this site.
I was typing a bunch of rambling that I have backspaced over - I guess I would just like to say thanks again. I don't want to have to write up my resume. Let's just say that I have spent 25 yrs explaining myself (til the death in a majority of cases), and now I am at the point that I am saying "I know I can prove what I am saying, but instead WHY DON'T YOU PROVE TO ME WHAT I AM SAYING IS NOT. In other words (like the to the poster above), explain your exception to what I am saying - show me your math.
I want this site to unify us in voice - coherant, agreed, mature and then expressed. We do have the answers, and we need to have dialogue in order to formulate direction and course of action for the application of the solutions. The way we communicate with each other is what forces the growth of the collective - we express imagination into reality through purpose and belief.
Thanks for letting me ramble, I just have to remind myself (FOR IT IS IN MY NATURE TO SMASH, NOT TO CODDLE) that communication is what we have decided to use for effective change. It would be so much easier just to smash those whose behavior would naturally be smashed, than to proffer a change in behavior that is more sustainable in the universe.
Respectfully,
Mike Silva