The father of my son's best friend passed away suddenly. I'm really sad. But my son keeps pestering his friend about the computer game they had been playing and that he wishes to continue. My son maintains that it is best for his friend to forget about his grief and that he is helping him that way. My son and his friend are both 9 years old.

Is there any way I can stop my son pestering his friend and to make him express some sort of empathy? Or might my son be right, as his friend already gets enough sympathy from the grown ups? I'm trying to get him to put his friend's needs first at this time, but it's hard for him. And would it be a good idea to take my son along to the funeral? He's a bit young for that, but then again, so is his friend, unfortunately.

Lots of questions...I hope someone can help.

I think that the BEST thing about being 9 - regardless of neurotype - is that with other kids - the attention is supposed to be shorter... the (sad) kid CAN act normal if he wants - he can be a kid, a 9 year old - without all the weight of the world.  He can even play video games. (at the funeral if he goes tell your son NOT to talk about the game while there, that is the time for others to give condolances... Your son should go to the viewing or funeral, sorry to say - if it is his close friends Dad.  THAT is the support. (showing or talking about how sorry you are while there IS the best time and place) Of course, how long to stay you will know (no doubt YOU will offer to be of help with the son - to babysit if she has an errand etc.,) Your son,  He is there to be the "happy go lucky" person - to in fact show the kid that his life while different is NOT going to stop being the life of a kid - the world did not end... I want to say your son will act like a 9 year old and be a playmate to his friend - THAT will not change.  WHile at the funeral he can tell his friend sorry and that if he needs him for any reason, even if it is NOT to play a video game, he can call him.(I think you knew all that)

This post was last modified: 06-04-2012 11:21 PM by windy.

Have you tried asking your son how he would feel if you died, and he was very sad, and his friend kept pestering him to play a game?

He may struggle now to instinctively put himself into another kid's shoes. But he can make a conscious effort to do so, with a little guidance from you.

Autistics are not empathetic? As Austin Power would say, "That old chestnut?"

It is just plain incorrect to think that autistics have less empathy than others. It is my observation that the most non-empathetic people are not autistics. It seems that NTs are often better at being effusive than empathetic.

Funerals put a lot on the survivors. What do kids (or adults) even know about death? Maybe the other child would like some respite. When my father died (I was 13), I certainly did. It sounds from your description that your son is thinking about the other child's feelings. How do you know the child does not want your son's suggestions - unless the adults are telling him how he is 'supposed' to feel? Could your son actually be the most empathetic one in this case?

Having contemplated all of this, I don't think a complex skill such as empathy can be taught in a day or two. Each event in our lives hopefully leads us to a more compassionate understanding of others (I am talking people here, not sub-categories of people).

This post was last modified: 06-05-2012 07:14 AM by awiddershinlife.

"My son maintains that it is best for his friend to forget about his grief and that he is helping him that way. "

If your son is not displaying empathy, it sounds like he is showing compassion. And that he cares about his friend.

I think that is good.

Ypu might make some cookies or something for his friend and have him deliver them to him. So the boys can spend time together and perhaps talk.

This post was last modified: 06-06-2012 02:04 AM by skyblue1 .

I'd advise your son to ask the friend what he wants.  He might like to know that his views and wishes are being respected.  I'd hate to think of what it would be like to lose a parent at that age; my husband's dad passed away when Vernu was the same age, and he adored his father.  
Alison

You are the parent so you should take some control over the actions of your child.   Tell him to stop asking his friend about that game until a few weeks when you say it is ok.  He does not use the phone to do this or communicate at school or other places about this game.  

Instruct your child about people do and say when someone dies.   Take him to the store and buy a card for his friend and get him to sign it and send it to his friend.  Also tell him what to say and do when he goes to a funeral or there is some other sad event.   If your son can behave properly at a funeral (that is sitting still, not making noise, not saying anything inappropriate, wearing the required clothing) then take him.  Tell him what to say to the family such as "I am very sorry for your loss." and not say anything negative about the person or relationship.   Then lead by example.  

Sorry you can't get into someone head and get them to feel empathy.  I have often felt happy when someone I know has died because I know they are no longer suffering - I cannot empathize sometimes because that is not my fault.  

I have learned somewhat to know what to do in these situations and what to say as expected by polite society.

I went to a funeral of a classmate when I was 9 years old.  In fact the whole class went.  My parents told me what to say to my classmate and choose my clothing.  Of course most of us knew how to act while sitting through a church service.  While I could not understand -- there was some appreciation that we were there by the boy and his family.

This post was last modified: 06-06-2012 03:11 PM by M.

I think that it comes down to an expectation and knowledge of what is appropriate.
I do feel uncomfortable when death comes up in conversation. I have no bloody idea. I have learned a few pat phrases and tone and such but I do not get instinctively how the other person feels or what they want.
If you have a good idea that what he is doing is not wanted or appropriate then make it known to your son. He sounds like he has no real point of reference. He doesn't sound like he is being naughty or bad or uncaring. Simply he has no idea.
I can relate to THAT feeling well enough.

HMMM, I was thinking - maybe the best thing for your son (my son) any person, to learn - is that just because they think (in your case your son thinks) "My son maintains that it is best for his friend to forget about his grief and that he is helping him that way." that a game is a perfect distration or that what your son thinks MUST be the best and maybe everyone thinks the same as him...

If only it would/could sink in that there may be a "norm"  (different than normal) where in "Average" people need someone to act, x, y or z when a death occurs or when x, y or z happens - but in FACT knowing (REALLY KNOWING, a permanent awareness) that just because YOU think it is a certian way or should be, does not mean any one else does.

I am thinking that my son seems to be LESS aware of the idea that HIS thoughts are not correct exclusively - or that a correct (in his mind "good" or kind) deed/thought/idea does not make a different persons' thought wrong, (or in his mind mean, bad, silly etc.,)... Of course with him I am hoping it is LESS the atypical mind at work and perhaps is a teen ager phase.. (the thinking THEY are always right) mixed with Knee-jerk I didn't do anything wrong (denial).


Better to instill the HABIT of attempting to be okay with other people thinking in a different way and being, if not sensitive to it, at least not offensive to their needs...
It is like an old guy who is "Set in his ways" and wants things to be "his way or the high way" in fact these old curmudgeonly people act more like selfish children than adults....

It is when you are in the inbetween ages - the ones where one needs to get along with others or learn or get a skill or job - that makes it important to be ABLE (or willing) to just be aware that other people think differently and that does not amkes them betetr or worse than you - or less owrthy of respecting them and their ideas (needs)>.

BAck to your son, he is at the very ripe age of 9 - plenty of time to slowly instill the correct habit, if not inherent empathy to do the "right" (thoughtful/helpful)thing. (like Bloke said - exactly that, no point of reference yet) I tangented a bit only because my 15 yr old HAD all that in place but is floundering more and more (lately).

Thanksfor all the useful replies - I was away for a few days due to illness - so we all missed the funeral, which is a shame. But I made my son write a card. At first he wrote something totally flippant and inappropriate, but I made him cross that out. He then had a meltdown. Afterwards I sat down with him again and then he wrote "I am writing you this card because I feel sorry for you." I explained to him that this is a good idea, because I know he does feel sorry for his friend, and that is what a card is for to express. Now he can act "normally" when he sees him.  

Poor boy, it is a bit much for him...but then, think of his friend and what he must be going through. So he just had to do this properly.

about writing the card.  ---   might be less of melt-down if you tell the kid what to do first or what you expect.  Better than "oh that was all wrong" - "now do it my way".  I feel frustrated when people do that to me.  I have no idea what they want.  When I do what I think or what I want - it is all wrong.  Some areas creativity is not so necessary but the goal has to be defined beforehand.

It mightn't be a bad idea to have a little list of set phrases to refer to, such as:
Birthday: Happy Birthday!  I hope it's a nice one.
Sick friend: Sorry you're not well.  Get better soon, I'm thinking of you.
Funeral: I'm so sorry for your loss.  
Christmas: Merry Christmas! I hope Santa brings you everything you want.
New Year: Hope it's a great year for you.
Etc.
You could have it written in a little notebook of set phrases that you find useful for social situations; I've got one on my study desk.  I don't need to refer to it anymore, since I know it off by heart, but it has come in useful in the past.  But there was one that I had a bit of a Spoonerism with: for postcards, I'd accidentally write : "The weather is here; wish you were beautiful."
Alison

This post was last modified: 06-08-2012 03:40 PM by Alison.

hmm, I do the same thing as your son. I always feel the best way to feel better is not to ruminate over things...I don't know if anyone could teach me how to truly grieve with another person...Its taken a lot to figure out the whole grieving thing..certainly not at 9, but overtime I have learned to acknowledge that people need to grieve (even if I do not always empathize with their feelings).

When I was in second grade, a student died and we all went to the church to light a candle. Maybe he could light a candle at a church with his friend, that way he doesn't have to talk. Lighting candles are symbolic of life, since fire is dramatic energy and the foundation of life is energy.

Also, I would write letters or draw pictures to friends who lost someone because someone told me that people cherish that type of stuff, even if they can't say so at the moment. Maybe he could write a letter/draw a pic for his friend.

This post was last modified: 06-08-2012 09:10 PM by sg1008.

^well, I was ASSUMING his friend's family is christian/catholic (which is why I said church). Whatever denomination he is, lighting a candle might be comforting...heck, I would light a bonfire - a bigger flame (and even perhaps fireworks).

You see--- I don't think people generally light bonfires or shoot fireworks on the occasion of death (except to cremate), but to me it makes logical sense because if you are going to light a candle, you might as well light something big and full of energy to symbolize another person's life and at the same time distract yourself from ruminating over sad feelings. Sometimes I make such suggestions and they are generally rejected (something your son may have to experience for himself). I now know the custom is not to do that -which I figured out, at my age (23), and I also know that on the subject of death, I should rather keep my mouth shut. Which is why I stick to letters and pictures.

Although I understand where you're coming from as a bonfire and fireworks being a celebration of the person's life, rather than their death, I feel that society would take it as inappropriate for the occasion.  I'd keep the fireworks for something more celebratory.  But the idea of a candle is nice.  In the Hindu religion my husband belongs to, an incese stick would be burnt in the temple. Sometimes the simpler gesture means more than the extravagant.
Alison

This post was last modified: 06-09-2012 03:35 AM by Alison.