Youg patriotic men / not fruit flies..
Saw a program the other day - either 60 minutes or 20/20 or CBS Sunday morning about the long term health impacts of the experimentiation done with LSD and paralytics etc., on young men (soldiers) in the late 1960's (not only african americans).  They were keeping up with the Soviets or something like that!

oh - found a link that discusses the "Story" the Veterans ADministraion is only NOW looking into this...

http://readersupportednews.org/news-sect...xperiments

That is some of the abuses I was speaking of.

In coming here I wonder if she realises that not many of us are in her area and could not participate anyway.

I havent heard anyone say yet that they thought this study is a good idea. Perhaps someone will chime in.

MDMA is an addictive drug from what I understand. Just something else for folks to be addicted to.

I don't think she said she was attempting to use anyone on here-- I think she may actually be using what she reads here in general as background (almost like an actor doing ride alongs with a cop for a cop movie, )  getting the lingo down - maybe insights from within - not mainstream (aka outdated)... I do not know why I am thinking this.

I think we have wuite a few on here who are quite knowledgeable.. anyway - I am one who has an interest in protecting - children especially...

I am so unahppy that so many are prescribed "off label" drugs - NONE of them say they are "approved" for under 18 - I think doctors should be ashamed of that.

(dan4th has not prescribed to children based on her writings it is adults)

Dan4th wrote:  " both sides of the unresolved neurotoxicity debate regarding MDMA". (in relation to neurodiversity...)

What, pray tell - do you mean by this?

and-- as a person of science - surely you know there are thousands of "sides" - the qustion is completely open - not pro or con - two sides.

Perhaps I do not know what you are spaeking about...

I can think of some "studies" or "experiments" on "living" humans that I would  have no qualms with,  but only in the most NARROWLY-DEFINED 'humane' context: stillborns on life-support.

We don't have the biological technology for it, (YET!),  and the predominant "humanitarian" culture of most medical doctors would never permit it, but I think it is still a potential path of medical/biotechnological R & D that many 'unethical' researchers would have no qualms doing.

I think it's worth bringing up that a 'fetus' or 'stillborn' can longer be thought of as "sacred!", outside of religious contexts. Your "anencephalic monster" fetus is already unlikely to live past birth (stillborn.) Provided that you know ahead of time it won't be able to exist in anything other than a PVS, can you think of any secular reasons why you shouldn't donate it to science, knowing that life-saving medicines would likely come from the vegetative infant's remains, as well as the vegetative remains of 1000s of other infants? At that, can any rational-yet-imaginative individual conceive of a future technological world where an "artificial womb" is not possible? The womb might produce healthy, normal babies for adoptive couples, or it might produce stillborns/vegetative infant bodies for research.

I mean, if our species will spend so many millions or billions of dollars on 'inhumane' research on living, feeling and breathing human test subjects, why not experiment on 'revived' anencephalic stillborns?

Again, purely hypothetical. Not looking for confrontation over philosophy.

No confrontation or philosophy needed, you're actually making me think this over for once....

The neurotoxicity debate refers to the unresolved question of how much MDMA use is required to cause damage to nervous tissue. MDMA is not an addictive drug in that it has not been shown to cause physiological dependence, such as the opiate drugs do. However, some individuals are susceptible to compulsive overuse and psychological dependence. There is general agreement that excessive use over a prolonged period can lead to measurable cognitive deficits, such as memory impairment. However, there are no comparable findings for limited, short-term Ecstasy users. One recent study of a population of participants who used Ecstasy nearly exclusively and no more than 50 times concluded: "In a study designed to minimize limitations found in many prior investigations, we failed to demonstrate marked residual cognitive effects in ecstasy users" (Halpern, et al., 2011).

Here's a more detailed explanation from an encyclopedia entry I co-authored in 2007:

     "Histopathological [tissue] findings in animals studies with repeated injections demonstrated that distal serotonergic axonal degeneration could result with doses much higher than recreational users consume. Implications of such pre-clinical findings are further confounded by observations of proximal axonal regeneration, cell body sparing and absence of standard laboratory markers of neurotoxicity. Other studies suggested that even modest use could lead to irreparable brain damage, including emotional and memory deficits, although these reports were often marred by flawed research methodologies, questionable data analyses, and biased conclusions. The debate reached its zenith with the high-profile retraction in 2003 of highly publicized findings from a government-funded study published in 2002 that concluded MDMA could cause damage to the dopamine system, thereby potentially causing Parkinson’s disease."

Here's a link to a NY Times article about the "high-profile retraction:" http://nyti.ms/GUDHPz.  The study findings that generated the famous "Brain on Ecstasy" poster that was publicized on the Oprah show and created a national scare were later retracted. Ecstasy does not create holes in the brain. More recently, articles on the therapeutic potential of MDMA have appeared in Oprah's magazine: http://bit.ly/GTKper. I am not concluding that MDMA is safe. However, it's important to keep in mind that pure MDMA in a clinical setting is very different than Ecstasy.

In relation to neurodiversity, I believe that it is important to include adults on the spectrum in data gathering to assess for relative risks and benefits. Among other mechanisms of action, MDMA acts on serotonin receptors and influences oxytocin levels in the brain, two areas which have been studied relative to autism. How do recreational users describe their experiences? Do they find them helpful or harmful? Pleasant or distressing? Or even neutral? I am interested in the full range of accounts not limited to NT experiences.

re: the bold.

How do you know that is the area of the brain "seratonin receptor"s etc.,  ?? that is affected - ( I ask this because :  As far as I know antidepressants still have not been conclusively shown (scientifcally and measurably) to affect .... (the brain chemical imbalances etc., ) where initially all the commercials said that was what it was fo - "low levels of dopamine" etc.,


Are brain scans done (have they been done on the average/NT population)(like qEEG scans?) though they just measure electrical impulses - besides "subjective" research like how someone "describe their experiences"... How does anyone know what is happening in the brain.  Do you work with neurologists?

As you can imagine, you question requires a complex answer.To start, here are a few resources you can consult.

Here is a brief video that illustrates three ways that MDMA is believed to influence serotonin levels in the brain at the synapse: http://bit.ly/GXFl53.

Here's a link to an abstract from an article on how MDMA affects oxytocin levels: http://bit.ly/GWal4g (This study used blood analysis.)

Of course, MDMA affects much more than serotonin and oxytocin. If you want to explore the topic on a deeper level, here's a link to an overview article from 2001: http://bit.ly/H15Qo5. It's a little dated now, but it will give you an idea of the complexity of the topic.

Here's a link to the abstract for an article on the neurobiological rationale for how MDMA might help anxiety disorders: http://bit.ly/HjiSm9

Multiple rodent, primate, and human fMRI studies that measure the influence of MDMA on the brain have been published.

We consult with neuroscientists, such as Dr. Franz Vollenweider. Here is a link to a page that describes the types of brain imaging techniques his lab uses: http://bit.ly/Hh2lOp

Per Gareth's suggestion, I started a new thread in the General forum to continue this disscussion there.

http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthre...?tid=24177

Has the content of that changed in the last month?

My interpretation of the word "tread" in the context of the above links is in accordance with the first definition of "treatment" from Wordnet:
      n 1: care provided to improve a situation (especially medical
           procedures or applications that are intended to relieve
           illness or injury) [syn: {treatment}, {intervention}]

Based on that I think it's a good thing for "treatments" to be available to consenting adults. I often have difficulty in concentrating, if Ritalin was half as easy to get here as it is in the US then I would definitely give it a go.

I don't get all the hostility here. Researchers often seem to get attacked when they turn up. Perhaps sometimes we are a bit oversensitive and quick to attack. I agree about AFF being a sanctuary of sorts..its like a big family almost.

Alicia really doesn't seem the curebie type at all. I spoke to her on MSN for some time today, she certainly isn't experimenting on kids. The research is for her dissertation, she is simply studying the reactions of auties/aspies who have already taken MDMA (plus those who have not, as a control)

Alicia seemed very open, and sincere. An interesting person, I quite liked her.I'll catch her again in a couple of days.

Oh, how ironic. Plenty go to therapists or have meds anyway. I guess that makes all the autistics that go to psychologists or psychiatrists autistic traitors? I'd ignore that crap tbh, geez. Some people just like to accuse and point fingers and have something to rant about.

I admit I was worried at first (hence all the questions), but I kind of get the same impression from her. Thank you, Lestat, and let's try to keep in mind that not all researchers are trying to intrude on our sanctuary from the rest of the world. Dan4th has done everything right when she first came, and I welcome her here.