A friend recently lost his father and is in grieving. He is an atheist and is being told by so many people that his father is in a better place, despite him telling people before that doing so makes him even more sad. They continue anyway, caring more for their delusions (yes, delusions - sorry to be so blunt) than the effects that spreading them has.

In general, people (not just religious people, atheists too) also have this infuriating habit of looking "wise" and getting nods for saying absolute nonsense such as "death is a blessing" or "immortality would mean no longer being human" and in general spreading the meme that death is in some way a good thing. I have growing contempt for such deathists.

There seems to be a lot of cognitive dissonance on this one as these people all seem to have a vague notion of when your "time" is, but when their time is can never be nailed down - you ask for a certain age, and very few say they'd be happy being executed on that birthday. You ask if it's just whenever it happens and they say they'd still defend themselves from an attacker or see a doctor when ill.

Then out comes the "quality of life" thing - somehow, old automatically always means bad quality of life, and furthermore - such a low quality of life that we should just euthanise them all or withdraw medical care, or not bother developing new medicine that could improve their quality of life AND span of life because doing so would somehow be unethical and evil.

This meme has gotten so bad that a man on the president's council for bioethics (Leon Kass - thankfully no longer there I believe) has stated on record that he would oppose new treatments for heart disease if these treatments caused an increase in life span. Apparently, it is far better to live with heart disease and then die from it sooner  rather than live longer and have no heart disease.

Oh, and afterlife believers - you're delusional but sincere I understand. So picture this - imagine someone could die, go to heaven and then have their soul simply "deleted" from heaven, thus being wiped out. Would this idea not utterly horrify you? Well, everyone's soul is "deleted" the moment the brain ceases to exist.

Whenever you think about death, if you are an afterlife believer, think about the person's soul being deleted and how horrifying that concept is. Then remember that this is in reality what happens, or if you insist, it is what those damned foolish atheists truly believe happens.

Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night
Dylan Thomas

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on that sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I've always loved that poem, always makes me think of an old man raging as he should.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kvvyjzjCi0 <-- I personally enjoy utilizing all of my senses to support a full learning experience. Even my sense of smell and taste are used to my advantage <-- mindfulness

What a coincidence, the title of this poem is the same as a song the wind ensemble I am a member of it rehearsing. The video I have included was through the search engine, I am not affiliated with them in any other way besides also being a musician. <-- legal notice

May you pattern thinkers benefit from the "viewing" of this share, and you verbal thinkers use the music to accompany the words of the poem as you speak it aloud.

Sorry, visual thinkers! Guess you better look up at a blank wall while you have visualizations with the music, or use platonic writing to harness your unique thought processes.

This post was last modified: 01-29-2012 12:56 AM by Little_Note_Leaver.

To me sometimes death sounds like a relief. But it's just me.

The idea of death really doesn't bother me one way or the other, to tell the truth.  I'm doing what I enjoy in my life and have for the most part had fun.  Of course the death of a loved one is sad for the living who loved them - I still miss my father and others I've loved.  But you deal with it.  And being agnostic, I don't tell myself little fairy stories about some sort of consciousness remaining after death.  It's not a preoccupation I have.

The only thing I'd like after death is to be buried in a biodegradable sheet, preferably paper, no coffin.  That's only because I don't want my body to add to the carbon load on the earth's overstretched resources.  A paper shroud would let me become part of the landscape faster!
Alison

This post was last modified: 01-29-2012 02:57 AM by Alison.

It doesn't bother me much either. If I'll be about to die, then I'll be sad for anyone who'll miss me a lot a lot, and I'll be sad that I can't make them be happy, but I wouldn't mind actually dying (as long as I won't die painfully).

I would like to have my consciousness remaining in the world without a body, I think it'd be very nice to be able to float about in the sky without having a stupid physical body to make things difficult. Obviously that's not going to happen though.

I think I want a burial, on a cliff somewhere high up and far away from other dead people. I don't want to be in a cemetery with other dead people. Yuck. Then at least it'll be a nice place for people if they want to come and sit with me for a bit.

I don't fear death to any great extent. My main concern is my children, I seem to mean a lot to them and I would hate to not be there for them into at least early adulthood.

I love the poem but I don't think that I will ever be the old man who is raging against the dying of the light.

There is a law of the conservation of matter that states that nothing can come of nothing or vanish into nothing literally. Everything, us (our souls) included, is material. Everything material has always been here and always will be. It changes, but it never vanishes to never be seen or heard from again.


At the very end of evolution, we will still have our memories, and our loved ones, and everything else we want, all made of light, or what I call soul substance... everything that was ever alive, alive and together. We are meant to self-correct, and are all attached to each other already tho our eyes can't see it (we are actually hallucinating NOW).


If we want to, we will get it. Because we have a bond with everything we ever had, liked, loved, etc. It's completely up to us what we will have, but we will all have what we want, everything we want, in the end.


Oh, and I don't believe in eternal damnation but I do believe in eternal redemption, which near-death.com is all about.. check it out; it changed me! I used to believe that eternal damnation existed. Then I thought about it and realized it wasn't true.

This post was last modified: 01-29-2012 07:38 PM by Ana54.

Duckfetishgirl, I reassure you that it is not "just you." Death can be a tremendous refief in a sense that it would free a person of all his or hers anguish in this lifetime.

With objection, I warn all with suicide on the thought of mind that it leaves behind a terrible mess for the rest of the world to clean up. Colliloqually speaking, it is a HUGE responsibility to take one's life and trust that the damage caused wouldn't be too catastrophic in reverberation towards the rest of mankind's existence, even if in some small way . . . Black OR white.

~

For example in question: would any living person deserve to see the lifeless body of a loved one? Also, what about all of the friends who would get to hear about the tragic ending of a dear life...

Ouch.

Warmheartedly judging by the avatar on your profile, I make the inference that you have had struggles in your life with spiritual beliefs. I would like to assume that they made you who you are today. I think it is a beautiful picture, representing the dark feelings that even an angel could be bestowed to repress.

By your name (Duckfetishgirl), I might have the idea that you have a fixation on ducks! Are these particular ducks of rubber or the poultry kind? I must confess that I have eaten duck many times before and it is quite tasty with plum sauce. What a cheerful name!

Request of the day: do not relieve yourself with thoughts of death, but enstrengthen yourself with the joys of living--be it in pain or in pleasure... In this world which we are all struggling to survive. Set an example that you are one less person to fall short and take your own life, leaving everybody else behind.

Jovan, "taking life as it comes," Delapinia

This post was last modified: 01-30-2012 01:20 AM by Little_Note_Leaver.

The problem I have with this, Ana, is that nobody has every been able to actually show me a soul.  People claim to have one of these objects, and some say that animals have them, other people say that animals don't.  There seems to be long involved arguments about the colour, etc.  But I've never seen one.  

There was the so-called Kirlean photography back in the 1960's which caused some brief excitement when it was touted as the physical manifestation of a soul.  Until it was shown to be the natural electrical discharges of a body undergoing metabolism (ie living).  You can see it if you use the photographic technique on a leaf or a loaf of bread (the yeast gives off electricity).  Now you could probably stretch the point and say that it is indeed a physical manifestation of a "soul" and then have to include yeast into the fold; but then it stops being something so exclusive to humans!  

Not only that, but rocks that are radioactive have a huge Kirlean imprint - does uranium therefore have a bigger "soul" than yeast or indeed a puppy or a human?  

I need a lot more physical proof before I concede that there is such an object.  

Alison

This post was last modified: 01-30-2012 02:05 AM by Alison.

You HAVE seen souls, or rather, soul substance. Pure soul is white light. We are more complex so we have a lot in our heads to work thru, tho our brains are evolving to make things easier for the souls in them.


All the soul substance is in one piece and is God and us, tho not all corners of it are touching each other! That is the goal and the reason we exist, to eventually become totally touching each other.

Death is irrelevant. Continuance of a sentient species, is not.

While I do not consider death to be a good thing, I think immortality would get boring after a while. Maybe I'm wrong. I won't live forever, so I'll never know.

Anyway, I've always felt that the manner of death does mean something. A violent death is always more tragic. Personally, I would prefer to go quietly in my sleep, like my grandpa. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.