Poll: Should those who cannot afford an elite education for their children be encouraged not to breed?
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Should the non-wealthy have children?
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micgrace
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RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

I presume I got your personality type wrong then? You definitely come across as choleric. But then I haven't met you in person. Most love to have a sanguine around, it lifts ones spirits, one combo that does work is a melancholic and sanguine. Melancholic perhaps?


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07-27-2011 01:34 AM
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Louise18



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Post: #92
RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

micgrace Wrote:
I presume I got your personality type wrong then? You definitely come across as choleric. But then I haven't met you in person. Most love to have a sanguine around, it lifts ones spirits, one combo that does work is a melancholic and sanguine. Melancholic perhaps?


Both serious partners were attracted to my choleric traits (ambitious, dominant, passionate) and found the melancholic ones difficult- which is why my last relationship ended.

07-27-2011 01:37 AM
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kevout2



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Post: #93
RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

micgrace Wrote:
And what is truth? Is it only relative to ones own upbringing? Ones point of view? A Western point of view? To me truth in human relationships is only relative with varying shades of grey. Its definitely not black and white. And the way you say things is black and white with no middle ground. That way of communicating would seriously undermine any relationship, aspie, NT or otherwise. Of course black and white communication is very aspie so you are excused.


Sometimes the truth can be black-and-white and sometimes the truth can be how you view something.  Water molecules (common drinking water) is a compound made of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom.  That can never changed.  If a water molecule were to change, such as adding another oxygen atom, it would no longer be water.

When it comes to behavior there are some absolutes and some relative.  An act of terrorism is wrong no matter what, regardless of whether the motive for a terrorist act is noble or supposedly noble.  Eco-terrorists blowing up SUVs are just plain trouble and should be eliminated.  On the other hand, using a gun is usually not OK.  But some circumstances make it OK to use a gun such as in self defense or trying to stop a criminal from committing a violent crime.

Now something like "rich enough", "good enough" etc. is relative.  I'm middle class, have a good jobn but I have to watch my budget.  If I don't, I can easily spend more than I earn.  To some people, I'm well-to-do or even rich.  To other people, I'm low-class.  To my second ex-wife and many in her Filipino circle, I was judged as poor; simply because I don't dress "in style", drive a fancy car, or parade around with the most sophisticated cell-phone model.  To me, having to live within a budget lest I run out of money does not mean that I'm poor.  I'm of the opinion that one becomes wealthier by being habitually and instinctually frugal.  But to other people (and in certain cultures), to have to live within a budget means you're poor and is therefore unacceptable.

I once knew a man.  He was divorced.  He met and fell in love with a woman from Colombia who had two kids.  The relationship was going good and they were even making plans to move in together and possibly marry.  But the woman met a wealthy older man.  She dumped this guy in a heartbeat and he was heartbroken.  This guy was middle class.  When she dumped him, she told him that because she was poor before she could never risk being poor again, so she had to go for this new guy.  Well that relationship didn't work out and she wanted to get back together with the guy I knew.  But after what she did to him, she declined,  What he told me is that he guesses that's just her way of doing business.

Other examples of absolute truths are that "black is black", "blue is blue", "a meter is a meter", "gold is gold", etc.  Relative truths might be something like 100 degrees centigrade is hot.  For a human or an animal 100 C is indeed hot.  For an area on the surface of the Sun, 100 C would be very cold.

Now how about the subject of obesity.  Obesity is pretty much an absolute.  The adjective "fat" is more relative.  "Fat" people are regarded as unattractive.  But that's relative.  It is not an absolute truth.  Fat people do find love.  What's not attractive to one person or most people, may be attractive to somebody else.  Then there's the sayin "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder."

07-27-2011 01:39 AM
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micgrace
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Post: #94
RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

Louise18 Wrote:

micgrace Wrote:
I presume I got your personality type wrong then? You definitely come across as choleric. But then I haven't met you in person. Most love to have a sanguine around, it lifts ones spirits, one combo that does work is a melancholic and sanguine. Melancholic perhaps?


Both serious partners were attracted to my choleric traits (ambitious, dominant, passionate) and found the melancholic ones difficult- which is why my last relationship ended.


My deceased wife was mostly melancholic and I always felt quite drained if she was in a foul mood and could explain why they left. I am mostly sanguine. New partner is mostly sanguine also. Sanguine with sanguine, ok so who is going to balance the checkbook and pay the bills?? But we have one big party and heaps of fun. Just don't look at the bills, no fun in that.


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07-27-2011 01:55 AM
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Louise18



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Post: #95
RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

micgrace Wrote:

Louise18 Wrote:

micgrace Wrote:
I presume I got your personality type wrong then? You definitely come across as choleric. But then I haven't met you in person. Most love to have a sanguine around, it lifts ones spirits, one combo that does work is a melancholic and sanguine. Melancholic perhaps?


Both serious partners were attracted to my choleric traits (ambitious, dominant, passionate) and found the melancholic ones difficult- which is why my last relationship ended.


My deceased wife was mostly melancholic and I always felt quite drained if she was in a foul mood and could explain why they left. I am mostly sanguine. New partner is mostly sanguine also. Sanguine with sanguine, ok so who is going to balance the checkbook and pay the bills?? But we have one big party and heaps of fun. Just don't look at the bills, no fun in that.


She didn't leave- I did. I know when someone's better off without me and I couldn't change that. She was extremely good with money and organisation though.

07-27-2011 02:02 AM
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Kapkao
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Post: #96
RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

skyblue1  Wrote:

142857 Wrote:
Should people who cannot afford an elite education for their children be permitted to breed? Should they be encouraged not to breed?


Republicans think so.....


Errr, do you actually bother reading up on politics? Quite the opposite is true. The republicans are quite keen to let losers and simple laypersons have kids. It's fetus butchers and day-after pills they have a problem with (or at least pretend to long enough to get in office.)

07-27-2011 04:49 AM
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Kapkao
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RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?
07-27-2011 04:50 AM
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Genesis



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RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

Long story Kapkao


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07-27-2011 06:27 AM
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Alison



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RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

I'm just a happy little Vegemite.  And I don't particularly care if others don't like that, or if it's some sort of dopomine reward or whatever.  

I was at uni today, my health is reasonable, it was a pearler of a day without a cloud in the sky and the sun belting down, even though it's winter and there was frost glistening on the sports oval.  The magpies were carolling in the eucalypts, the wattles have begun to flower (they flower here in mid-winter) the snow-gums were blooming and there were little rosellas flitting about from tree to tree.  I took a deep breath and looked at the beautiful vista of mountains, trees and gorgeous day and just thought: how lucky I am, to be in this place, at this time, to see all this.  

I wouldn't be down, or dead, for quids right now.  

Alison


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07-27-2011 07:06 AM
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micgrace
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Post: #100
RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

Yes, Canberra is rather nice at this time of year. Even the pesky magpies co-operate by not bomb diving in winter.


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07-27-2011 07:16 AM
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League Girl



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RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

To me truth is fact. Your opinions are not the truth. They're your opinions. Lot of people cannot tell the difference between truth and opinion just like lot of people cannot tell the difference between facts and opinions. Sometimes I think people pull the honesty card around as "the truth" just so they have an excuse to be mean and insulting or judgmental or whatever. Okay it's their opinion, not the truth. People can think wrong of you, people can get the wrong impression of you, make false assumptions and say it to your face what they think, that is not the truth they told you. People can have an opinion about you because of their own opinion and blurt it to your face, that isn't the truth, that's their opinion. For example lot of people think spanking your children makes you a bad parent and lazy. That is an opinion, not the truth so they can blurt it to your face all they like and claim it's the truth. To me that is bullshit. It's your opinion, not the truth and I sure don't need to hear that out of anyone's mouth when they wish to make a comment about my parenting. Maybe I can insult them back by telling them those who don't spank their kids are wussies and cowards and want to coddle their precious snowflakes and at least my kid won't grow up to be a brat. Then we'll see who is more insulted. Hey I told the "truth" right? (Note: I don't really think this about none spankers. In fact I don't care if parents don't spank their kids because everyone has their opinions about raising kids and just as long as they are well behaved and good children, I don't care how they are raised just as long as they are not getting abused. I just wish people would stop judging others for their parenting decisions. But hey if someone dares to insult me about my parenting, I will throw it back at them by saying something nasty to them telling them the opposite of what they told me. That is if I can think of a comeback in time.)


I think there is a difference between truth and honesty. Truth is fact and honesty is well you tell them your honest opinions and you don't sugar coat but it doesn't make it the truth. Like if I hear someone say "I am going to be honest with you" and then they tell you their opinion, that is them expressing their honest opinion and being honest with their opinion and not sugar coating it. They aren't telling you something they think you want to hear.

Even though there are lot of things I don't like hearing, the bright side I see to it is, it tells me what kind of people they are and at least they are that honest to tell me what kind of people they are. I can tell if they are judgmental or rude or don't give a *** or if they make horrible friends or if they are on their high horse because their standards are ridiculous, they are so ignorant, narrow minded etc. I guess they don't have a problem with telling what kind of people they are and after all, actions do speak louder than words. I do have to give credit to those people.

Can you imagine being friends with someone who all along thought you were just lazy? After all if they had the balls to say it to your face, it be the "truth" right and they can say you got insulted because you didn't like hearing "the truth?" But if they said it from the start before your friendship ever began, you could look on the bright side and tell yourself "At least he told me that now than five years later, then I would have wasted my time with him."


How many of us love hearing that AS doesn't exist and that it's a fake condition? After all that is the "truth" right? At least they are being honest with us but thanks to them sharing us that false information, we know how ignorant they are and how they don't understand AS very well and they sure would make crappy friends. Or maybe they just need to spend time with a real aspie to learn the condition is indeed real and they might not be a crappy friend after all of they got to know us personally. But if some of us are too mild, it may be harder for them to be convinced this condition is indeed real. But hey it's their opinion right? They may say it's the truth but it's not.


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07-27-2011 10:09 AM
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windy
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Post: #102
RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

Kapkao Wrote:

skyblue1  Wrote:

142857 Wrote:
Should people who cannot afford an elite education for their children be permitted to breed? Should they be encouraged not to breed?


Republicans think so.....


Errr, do you actually bother reading up on politics? Quite the opposite is true. The republicans are quite keen to let losers and simple laypersons have kids. It's fetus butchers and day-after pills they have a problem with (or at least pretend to long enough to get in office.)


In the US - the parties are reversed... (PRETEND is the correct word)

The republican party pretends to be all high and mighty (and use a red herring) against abortion to seem like the "religious/moral" party.

If that were the case they would care about hte child AFTER it is born and "they" (small and loud group that is in charge) don't.

People that (moms) can't go to work AND take care of their one two , three children are looked down upon...

Only well off people (moms/dads) that have multiple children are looked at as worthy/good christians.

Heck Mitt Romney is the best qualified "republican" in the bunch and has the most money and he cannot get elected because he is a mormon (and not the polygamist type).

Many/most mormons care MORE about family then money.

Republicans (in america)(the party) care more about money.  NO extra taxes on the rich EVER and take away health care for the poor and middle class and old.  CUT education for children in poor schools...  Romney has no chance as he created a health care program in his state when he was Governor.



I voted yes - of course- everyone who can love a child should have one, we need ALL kinds of people in the world. (caveat- I hope people will attempt to be out of at least high school and have a commited partner before having one) it makes it harder (not impossible) if you do it alone and have no money.

07-27-2011 03:59 PM
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windy
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Post: #103
RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

Kapkao Wrote:

skyblue1  Wrote:
[quote=142857]
Should people who cannot afford an elite education for their children be permitted to breed? Should they be encouraged not to breed?


Republicans think so.....


Tea Party Nation President Says It ‘Makes A Lot Of Sense’ To Restrict Voting Only To Property Owners


Every week, the Tea Party Nation hosts a weekly radio program, calling itself a “home for conservatives.” Two weeks ago, Tea Party Nation President Judson Phillips hosted the program and discussed changes that he felt should be made to voting rights in the United States. He explained that the founders of the country originally put “certain restrictions on who gets the right to vote.” He continued, “One of those was you had to be a property owner. And that makes a lot of sense, because if you’re a property owner you actually have a vested stake in the community. If you’re not a property owner, you know, I’m sorry but property owners have a little bit more of a vested interest in the community than non-property owners”:



THE POINT OF ME PUTTING THIS HERE is that if "poor" people have children, those chidlren would not even be allowed to vote... I mean you can be a parent and have chilren and not own a house, but does that mean you don't have a vetsed interest in where your kid goes to school?

07-27-2011 04:09 PM
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Kapkao
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Post: #104
RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

League Girl Wrote:
Lot of people cannot tell the difference between truth and opinion just like lot of people cannot tell the difference between facts and opinions.


Apparently, even more people can not tell the difference between relevant and irrelevant. Sequitur and non sequitur. Extraneous from pertinent.

07-27-2011 06:16 PM
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Louise18



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Post: #105
RE: Should the non-wealthy have children?

There is such a thing called the truth of your opinion. That I think people who spank their children ought to be in prison is a fact about my thoughts. "I think" is superfluous usually in conversation because it is inherently obvious that a given thing is fact or opinion. "I think" and "In my opinion" are not used in academic writing. You make a case for your own point of view, and it is obvious to everyone that it is your point of view, it is rarely necessary to say so. This is a mode of communication that most educated people use in conversation, and debate usually operates in this way. If people can't grasp this style, they shouldn't debate.

07-27-2011 09:14 PM
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