I can tell you as someone who sometimes teaches kids, I would much rather have a kid in the class who doesn't always pay attention than someone who doesn't even want to be there. The kids that don't always pay attention just need to be reminded every once in a while. You can't really do anything with the kids that, once they realize it's not what you see on TV, just don't care to learn anything.

This guy should have gotten his kid a punching bag and told him to punch it whenever he's frustrated to let off some steam and not cause any faux pas.

He'd be a masterclass boxer by 18

This post was last modified: 01-19-2012 07:49 PM by Gedrene.

Well, that's good to deal with frustration. The problem is that it doesn't do anything for discipline, self-control, socialization, self-confidence, or any of the other benefits that you would get from actual martial arts classes. The only way to avoid faux pas would be total seclusion, which is unrealistic.

There's a lot of things that can be done, but there isn't some magic bullet for them all. I think letting go frustration by using a punch bag will do quite a bit for self-control. Forcing someone to socialize, to be an NT, is a farce. They got to do it by themselves. I don't know why you need to say the end of faux pas. What matters is that it decreases to a large degree.

An avenue for frustration that is constructive would be very helpful. Shoving a child in to socializing when they have yet to deal with that frustration would be counter-productive.

This post was last modified: 01-19-2012 09:01 PM by Gedrene.

When I say socialization, I don't mean forcing someone to be NT. I mean simply providing an atmosphere where it's more comfortable. No one is forced to socialize when they don't want to (and it is, in fact, discouraged while class is in session).

Working out frustration actually does very little to teach self-control. All it does, really, is allow a time and place where it's appropriate. I didn't say anything about a punching bag being a bad thing to do. I'm just saying it's not a replacement for something else.

Bear in mind, also, that I have two decades experience in martial arts, including more than a decade of teaching. I've seen all different neurotypes come into class. I ran a 45 minute karate class at an autism retreat this summer, which was highly successful. I know what I'm talking about.

Well if you don't want to force someone to be NT, why are you putting them in a social atmosphere when it is already known that they are frustrated? Socializiation isn't an NT thing. Putting them in an NT environment willy-nilly is, no matter if socialization is discouraged.

When you say using apunching bag is not a replacement, what exactly is being replaced? It certainly isn't a martial arts. Learning to control your frustration by giving an avenue for expressing it is important.

I am not a person to be convinced by appeals to authority, but I don't rule out Martial arts coming later. I just don't think it's the first step.

Speaking from personal experience, an autistic student will join dressing room conversations after class when he/she is ready. I don't understand your opposition.

I was under the impression you were suggesting a punching bag instead of lessons. If I'm wrong, it seems we agree on that subject.

I wasn't trying to appeal to authority. I was trying to point out that you're arguing out of your element with someone who has extensive first hand experience on the subject. I'm happy to answer any questions, but if you continue arguing with me on martial arts, you're probably going to make yourself look stupid. (I don't mean that as a slam. Just that you seem to be going down a road you probably don't want to.)

As I've already said, I've seen several neurotypes come into class, including several autistic students of all ages. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't. As long as the student is interested and mature enough (4-year-olds could go either way, regardless of neurotype), the only way to tell is to get them in class. It's pretty rare for a neurotype to make someone unable to begin at the same place everyone else does.

You know that's an appeal to authority.

Getting a child to focus his energy elsewhere is best served a by a simple solution without some massive new scenario being built up first.

A punching bag is an easy and simple solution for a child to express his frustration and develop self-control by first letting off the pressure.

Sending an autistic person in to a martial arts class, full of new people when this child had express issues with directing his energy already explained is not a good first stop.

I am not trying to tell you how martial arts classes go. I'm just telling you that you can't apply your solutions to life to people who aren't like you. This is expressly about directing a child's energy, not confidence building.

If he wants to build confidence then that can be done, but after he first develops a stress release.

Now, you see, you seem to be telling me that an event in my life that has positively affected my life for nearly two decades was a bad idea. You also seem to be telling me that actual experience and observation is an appeal to authority, and therefore, you will not accept it as debunking your theories.

I tell you again, you're out of your element.

No, I'm telling you that what helped you wont necessarily help everyone else, especially when the situation isn't the same. I thought that would be quite obvious when I said this the last post:

That was referring to what you said martial arts classes would do. Are you really gonna keep accusing me of saying your life is a mistake when all I did was disagree with you?

Saying that you are a martial arts teacher and that I am out of my depth is not debunking anything. it's being stuck up

This post was last modified: 01-19-2012 10:47 PM by Gedrene.

This seems to be a case of theory vs. reality. I'm not saying what worked for me will work for everyone. I'm just saying it will work (and has worked) for a lot of people. You seem to be defaulting to going straight into martial arts is a bad idea.

I've never suggested just calling up some place and signing a child up for classes, no matter what the child's opinion is. If you had bothered to read the whole thread, you would know that I advocated getting as much information as possible before hand. That usually involves meeting the instructor (any decent parent would take their child with them for that) and, if the school allows (most do, at least if you're serious about joining), watching a class. Some schools even allow a free trial class for children.

Of course, no one knows the child better than the parents. Not the potential instructor, not me, and not even you. If, at any time during the process I just described, the parents decide that maybe this is a bad idea, they can always pull out of it. I acknowledge that this can be harder after the child has already been signed up, especially because most schools have contracts that require you to commit to a certain number of months from the beginning, whether classes are attended during those months or not.

If you want an example of different neurotypes in a martial arts class, I have some of those as well. There is someone with Down syndrome enrolled at my dojo. He did have several issues with concentration and paying attention when he first started. He still has communication problems, but does participate in conversations after class. He can also train in normal classes with the rest of us.

The only people I've ever seen not able to handle the situation were very small children. It had absolutely nothing to do with autism. Just that it was more noise and activity than they were used to. Most of the time, they were fine to join class either later in the class or the next day.

cutting and bludgeoning tools vs practice dummy.


Excellent for medieval warfare

cutting and bludgeoning tools vs practice dummy.


Excellent for medieval warfare

Sounds like fun! Blunted and padded weapons vs. a similarly armed live opponent is also fun.

And I have every reason to believe that I can tell you why it wouldn't be suitable as a first port of call either.

The first sentence betrays your hostility to my alternative. This is not theory. Stress release would be good as a very simple first step, and is not very hard to really think through either.

You have spent more of your time accusing me of telling you that you have made a mistake of your life than anything. Please stop it.

Okay, you say your arguments are not theory. Tell me about your experience, or your observations of others in martial arts. And while your at it, please stop playing the victim. It's annoying.