Hi everyone,

   My apologies for the long message, but I really need some help/advice. My name is Amy and I am new to the site. I am an NT who has previously dated an aspie, and is presently in a new relationship with another aspie. We have been dating for a few weeks now.

     We have been having some issues communicating throughout our relationship. My partner is not only an aspie, but is a bit inexperienced in the relationship world. Also, he seems to have many issues he is suffering from (health wise, emotionally) but seems to want to lay them on me and have me fix them without putting forth any effort to do what he needs to do to care for himself. It has been a lot of pressure on me, and very draining... but I feel badly to pull away from him. However, I have my own issues (depression) and a full load at work and school, and I don't feel I am getting much support from his end.
       It is difficult for him to relate to me. The greatest challenges we have been facing are:
A) When I share a personal story with my partner, he often does not realize I am expecting a response back. He will often tell me a similar story without acknowledging he heard me... which makes me often feel like I am boring him or he is not interested in me. Through my research about NT/AS relationships, it seems this is fairly common and the answer is to be clear with the AS partner what it is you are looking for when you share such a story. However, after many very clear attempts, it seems to be making little difference.

B) Often times, my partner will not realize how some of his actions come off to me. For example, he has never been on-time for any of our plans. I have very calmly pulled him aside to let him know that when he is routinely late it makes me feel like my time is not valuable, and I am not a priority. He says he understands and won't do it again, but then continually does it.

The moral here, I guess, is that I feel like I am putting forth a lot of effort to try to understand where he is coming from. While I might get angry if I were talking to someone else and either of these scenarios occur, I will ask him to clarify first, or explain to him how I have interpreted something. I know that AS individuals have a difficult time relating to NTs, the same way I am having trouble relating to him-- though I also feel through the information I've gathered along the way that for an NT/AS relationship to work, both sides have to try to see things from the other's perspective, and have discourse when either is hurt before it blows out of proportion.

After a few weeks of constantly feeling like I have to point everything out to him without him seeming to take notice, I suggested maybe we should take a break for us both to consider if this relationship is beneficial to us. I made sure he understood that I care very much for him, but I feel we are at different levels which is damaging to us. We decided to have a conversation about our plans for the future today, after taking two days of space from one another. He swore up and down the entire conversation how he was a changed man and saw he needed to help himself and go to the doctors for his health issues, and that he needed to deal with his sorrows constructly and be there for me, that he needed to think of me and be considerate while also understanding it is okay to tell me how he feels or if something I do confuses him. He apologized for making me feel insignificant to him and promised it was very far from the truth and that he planned to prioritize me and stop trying to multitask and put me to the side.However, during the conversation I heard him talking on aim and I said to him... "you are telling me how important I am, while you are sitting there and dividing your attention between me and someone else. This makes me feel like you are disingenuine" he apologized and said it was jsut someone he hadn't talked to in years and that he had told them he couldn't talk... and he apologized for getting sidetracked and I said I appreciated him being honest with me and moved on.

After this conversation, I felt great and ready to work on our mutual issues together... to support him through his changes and also to realize I need to work with him as well. However, right after the conversation, I found out  he had lied to me about the person he was talking to on AIM and that the entire time he was talking to me he was talking to my friend online. He was not honest when I asked him about it over the phone. While he was promising to focus on me and make me a priority, he sat there and talked to another person and divided his attention amongst us. I was very hurt by this. I feel like I cannot trust him and that he is not in the position in his life to do the work he needs to in order to be in a relationship. It seems he expects me to do all of the flexing and molding. I told him I no longer wanted to be in the relationship and was ending it, because how could I trust things would get better and put so much effort forth if he can't even be straight-forward with me. In my opinion, we were already on the breaks and this was the final attempt, and he lied to me.

He called me several times and thought I was overreacting, but I don't even know what I could say (or what he could say for that matter) to make up for this, or to make me think this relationship can be a mutually supportive and trusting environment. I think it is best we go our separate ways, but he is already acting irratically and making me feel like he is going to pursue me vigorously against my desires.

I guess what I am asking is your opinion on the situation, and if it is best to leave-- how can I go about making it clear to him I mean it without being mean? He also has the propensity to get really nasty when he feels hurt, and I am afraid of the backlash.

Please help.

Amy

I'll try to quickly address your concerns.

A)  If you tell him a story, etc.; do not assume he is ignoring you, being obstinate etc.  As a matter of fact he may even be intrigued by what you are talking about.  Aspies don't express themselves (typically through body language) in the ways that NTs take for granted.  Aspies are wired different neurologically.  Pretend that instead of being boyfriend and girlfriend, that you two were teacher and pupil, or mother and son (and assuming he's a youngster).  You might be reading him a story book, or trying to teach a lesson through a story.  You could find yourself losing patience with him because you perceive him as being rude for "not paying attention" or not responding in ways you might expect an NT kid to respond.  These are merely communication differences.  Time and time again; before the age of interventions; elementary school teachers have had problems with Aspie-like kids (ADD characteristics) being "bad".  I was one of them.  On another note, I have a fond age-1 memory with my father.  I'd sit in his lap and he'd read me Dr. Zeuss's A-B-C.  I enjoyed those times (Aspie people are known for very long-term memories).  Me and my father reminisce about that now.  But at the time he wanted to hit me (fortunately he didn't or there'd be a scar instead of a good memory) because he thought I was being obnoxious simply for not verbally responding or talking.  Keep in mind that Aspie brains process stimuli differently than NT brains.

B) As for being late, I can assure you that (taking that aspect at face value), your boyfriend means no offense.  I've struggled with this aspect practically all my life.  The more bottelenecks he might run into, combined with impaired alertness (for example if he's not a "morning person" and has to be somewhere early), the more likely he is to be late.  If it's something really important, he should make extraordinary efforts to be at the place and event on time.  But if you're getting together for a date, there are many things that can slow him down in addition to him physically moving slower than the average person (dressing up, etc.); and if there's not much of a time margin in between it will be even more difficult.  When driving is involved, it's better that he arrives late than be responsible for causing an accident from driving dangerously just to be somewhere on time.  When I was in high school, missing the bus was a chronic problem.  I once had a girlfriend who lived 77 miles away from me.  One of her complaints was I was late picking her up.  Well of course traffic was a variable obstacle.  If I had to stop someplace along the way (such as to get her flowers) it would slow me even further.  If she actually thought I didn't care for her or respect her; well it's a painful thought.  (This relationship ended painfully 11 years ago.)

About your biggest concern, I would become suspicious on the premise that he's giving another female attention and seems to be trying to hide it from you.  If there's a reason why this relationship would not work out, this would be a good reason.  But I want to clearly differentiate between something such as giving another woman excessive attention versus giving special interests (or any interests) attention.  For me, something as mundane as reading an encyclopedia article, my first ex-wife made it seem that I did not love her.  At the time, I did not understand.  Of course I loved her.  I had read that Alexander Graham Bell's wife complained that he didn't give her enough attention.  Alex Bell was typically busy working in his lab.  But of course he loved his wife; and I'm sure his wife's love was an inspiring factor to motivate him to want to work in his lab.  I saw a picture of a primitive silver telephone that he specially made for his wife.  I guess that was just one instance of his way of expressing his love for her as opposed to spending alot of time on the beach with her eating chocolates and sipping wine.

You may wish to be patient in letting him know what your concerns are.

Honestly though, it doesnt sound like this relationship will work in the end.

Welcome to AFF.

To me, this final statement of yours means that there can be no real future in the relationship.  If you are afraid of how he will react to what you say to him, then you will never be able truly to be honest and open with him.  You would end up in a relationship in which you are unable to be yourself for fear of how he will react, and in the long run that would be detrimental to you.

Hi Amy, welcome to AFF.

I'm an Aspie woman who has been married for the past 25 years to an NT man.  Any problems we've had typically have been due to misunderstandings between our two communication styles.  

This one I would say is fairly common.  A lot of the time, I can't think of anything to say in response to a personal story, I usually need a lot of processing time to think about everything my husband has said and to think of some appropriate response.  But once I've had time to digest it, I'll want to discuss it more with him.  Unfortunately, by then he's usually moved on to something else!  Also, I tend to have a bit of a blind spot where I hear him as requesting advice about a problem, where in reality he just wants to talk it out and then forget it.  

This could be an individual thing.  Perhaps if he spends a lot of time on computer, you could get him to put a reminder on his email for an hour or so before he's due to get ready?  I know it's not something you should have to do; however, I've found that being late is more of a "man thing"; my husband tends to do that, and he's NT!  I'm usually the one who is routinely early.  

Like Marcia, I feel this one is the clincher.  Has he every been physically violent towards you?  I think your idea of a "cooling off period" is probably a good one.  Then you can both re-evaluate if this relationship will work or not.  It might also be a good idea to show him your email, so that he realizes how serious you are about this.

By the way, congratulations on your tolerant and understanding attitude.  You sound like a very nice person.

Alison

This post was last modified: 02-10-2011 01:46 AM by Alison.

All of your comments are very helpful.

I do think it is best for both of us we part ways. It just seems like it's becoming hurtful and detrimental, and that trust is a factor.

I've been straight forward that we are broken up but he has been calling me non-stop. I think it's best I stop all contact with him, but I'm wondering if I should write him an e-mail or something to let him know or just leave it be (I did, already, tell him it was absolutely over). I don't want to be cruel, but I also worry that contacting him is going to open up communication and cause and argument, which I do not want.

Phew! Thanks Alison, it means a lot that you see me as nice-- it really hurts me that I can't seem to make this work and I've been pretty hard on myself and second-guessing that I'm not being fair.

He hasn't even been physically violent to me, but he has mentioned to me in the past that when I am honest about how he makes me feel badly, sometimes, he wants to explode on me and "burn the bridge" as he says. The fact that, that is his instinct when he hurts me instead of working through it, and also that he found it necessary to tell me that, is what worries me.

This post was last modified: 02-10-2011 01:49 AM by brandnewquiet.

Ah.  I'm sorry to hear that.  I do think it would be a good idea to let him see this series of emails, so he can understand why you've taken the action you did.

Alison

I'll try and explain some of these things as best I can. Some people eg. teachers, said I wasn't paying attention, listening etc. when they were telling me things. This was during a time when I got very self conscious about looking at anybody in the eyes. I was in fact listening all that time and taking in the information; unfortunately the other person couldn't see this.

Despite my best efforts, I often am late for various things. I tend to leave it to the last moment because the only thing that motivates me at times is time pressure. I also get very caught up in activities I am doing at the time and don't realise how fast time is passing. Then there are always unforeseen hurdles such as being held up by slow traffic, the bus or taxi being late, not being able to find something suitable to wear, getting a phone call just as I am leaving and finding it difficult to end the conversation quickly. I'm certainly NOT trying to be disrespectful; I know it is an issue, and try to improve.

The guy talking to somebody else at the same time is a real worry. I think it would be necessary to say something like "look, I either have your undivided attention or we talk some other time". We often find it difficult to deal with conflicting priorities or to end conversations but it is no good trying to sort important issues out if you don't have his full attention.

We are often prone to telling others what we think will please them. I don't believe it is intentional lying as such but more motivated by anxiety about not meeting up to expectations. I'm in a bit of situation now where I have told my brother things to please him because I just don't want to feel under pressure or get into a fight but I also realise it isn't the best way to deal with life. I hate getting into fights and they are very likely if I feel criticised, not meeting up to standards set by others or by myself.

Some aspies like me take in information better if it is written. This man is probably quite clueless about having acted inconsiderately; simply telling him verbally might not have sunk in. There are often memory retrieval problems, expecially where the person is highly anxious - relationships are one area where we are very anxious as we often have had a series of relationships that haven't worked out (I don't necessarily mean romantic relationships - broken friendships also count).

The aspie might not comprehend statements such as "my time doesn't seem important to you" etc. If you want to end the relationship, it's probably better to just say "I'm sorry, but I don't think we are suited for each other". It's blunt, and probably hurts, but is better than beating around the bush.

Pakrat,

    I think a lot of what you say makes sense. I do look at it that way-- I can understand why he is late and the disconnect when I tell stories. What I don't understand is why it doesn't seem to matter to him to try and work at the areas he has difficulties and meet me halfway. It seems he just wants me to understand him without any of the work of trying to be clearer or understanding me.

   I'm wondering where the line is. Like, I keep forgiving him for hurting my feelings this way because I understand it isn't intentional-- but at what point does it BECOME intentional if he doesn't try to avoid these issues (as you said, you are aware of your time problems and try your best to work with it).

   Moreover, like you said-- the main issue seems to be I never have his undivided attention. I did not want to break up with him until finding out he was dividing his attention earlier. I had made it very clear I need to have his full attention at least SOMETIMES, and he definitely seemed to get that-- yet in the conversation where we were discussing how he planned to tackle this, he was giving his attention to someone else talking about things totally unrelated. That does not seem as accidental to me as the other issues, and seems more intentionally uncaring.

What do you think?

The trouble you have is he is probably incapable of meeting you halfway. That's why when the others said there probably wasn't much future in the relationship I think they were right. I get tired of people telling me I should work harder when I believe I'm doing my best but I thought a certain degree of it was because I am a female and there seems to be more expectation placed upon us to be emotionally responsive and demonstratively nurturing.

I prefer to tell the truth but sometimes the truth shifts so fast I have trouble catching up with it; also I sometimes tell people what I think they want to hear just so as they will leave me alone.

I seem to either be too emotional about issues or not showing enough emotion (doesn't mean I don't feel it though). If it isn't a rude question, how old is this man? It would also be interesting to know if he's always lived at home or has managed on his own for a while. It seems to me that families and even society in general is a bit more tolerant of aspie males having troubles organising themselves and making emotional responses.

There seems to even be a belief that females are naturally empathetic and good at housework and want to maximise their physical appearance. I'm not good at any of these things and so feel at a distinct disadvantage, especially since I have limited opportunities to demonstrate what I do excel in.

To answer your question which, no, I don't find too personal hehe... he is 26 years old. He has lived on his own with roommates before while attending graduate school a few hours from home. He does, however, live at home again now and has some trouble getting along with his parents.

neither of you sound like bad people at all, but it does sound like you're just not right for each other. i think maybe people with asperger's tend to take a bit longer to get "good" at relationships.

I really empathize with some of the issues that Pakrat and kevout2 raised about the struggle with there being a disconnect between aspies feeling emotions and NTs being able to understand and read that emotion. I really did try, here, to try to make that leap with my boyfriend-- but I agree that it seems I am wanting from him something he is not capable of.

I think that, perhaps, I could get passed that I needed to rewire how I was looking at things a bit to see things from his perspective-- but as has been mentioned many times, his inability to focus on me is really a dealbreaker that I don't feel can fully be blamed on asperger's and, furthermore, is just a generally bad sign.

What I've been struggling with is that in my previous relationship with an aspie (which was my first very serious relationship a few years ago) I did not understand his condition and often got mad at him and offended for what I perceived to be a lack of care. Years later, understanding the condition moreso now and having a more objective view on his actions, I have a lot of guilt for the way I treated him. On one hand, I really had no idea what aspergers was and he often kind of brushed it off like it was not a serious issue for him-- so I never really went in depth with it. So, I think that now I had the opportunity to be with an aspie again I was trying to be the exact opposite I was before. The fact that even though I understand his actions more they still hurt equally is frustrating to me. Like I said, I think I could work through it-- but now it has come to my attention that I never have his full focus, I don't see the logic in trying to do so. When I said he needed to "meet me halfway" I did not so much mean that he had to put as much effort into understanding me (which, as has been mentioned in responses, might not be possible for him) but moreso that he needs to be mentally present at least when I'm trying to hard to work with him. Aspie or not, I do not think it is fair that I have had to take the back seat to others constantly.

An additional factor I did not mention is that the majority of my relationships (friendships and romantic) have been extremely emotionally abusive over the years. As such, I need a lot of reassurance from my partner that they care for me, think of me, consider me. So I think trying to get that from someone who inherently has difficultly with social interactions is a recipe for disaster. I'm notoriously hard on myself, though. I think I need to accept that it is okay that I could not handle the challenges here given my past and the flawed way that I think due to abuse. Putting myself in a position where I have to second-guess and analyze someone's intentions all the time is torturous for me. Admitting that makes me feel like a failure in a lot of ways, but I'm trying to come to grips with the fact that this isn't necessarily anyone's fault, and there's nothing wrong with realizing it doesn't work after having tried so hard.

Yes, it isn't your fault here. It's perfectly reasonable to want some undivided attention, and some aspies can still act like jerks.