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Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?
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Gareth
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Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

I'm one of those strange people who is opposed completely to a ban on the burqa while still believing that it shouldn't be forced on anyone either.

There are many who believe that banning it somehow protects human rights and religious tolerance, somehow. But one comment stood out to me:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/libertycen...nt-6841819

Quote:
The veil is a political statement in the UK and it's socially divisive. Try engaging with a veil-wearing mum at the school gates - an important social space in any local community.


So, the burqa should be banned because they find it awkward to chat to people casually when they're wearing it?




“Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” - Printcrime by Cory Doctrow
10-11-2010 05:42 AM
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dtx
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RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

It's unfriendly. I want no part of that.

10-11-2010 05:49 AM
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Gareth
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RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

What's unfriendly? Wearing a burqa?




“Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” - Printcrime by Cory Doctrow
10-11-2010 05:50 AM
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dtx
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RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

Very. If they're going to be like that they should be honest and tell people "I don't want to know you, I want to grow old and die with my pathetic lies."

10-11-2010 05:56 AM
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Gareth
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RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

I can't see why it offends so many people - it's a bit of cloth!
I find it offensive that some women are forced to wear it (as should any decent person) - but who cares about those who choose to wear it? Why is that so offensive?




“Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” - Printcrime by Cory Doctrow
10-11-2010 05:57 AM
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dtx
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RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

It's disrespectful to whoever they're talking to, hiding so much information while expecting to be given everything. You can't have honesty without intimacy, and you can't expect to take more than you give. Total sham, hugely offensive. The French have the best understanding of people, if they pass a law it's usually a mockery of justice but a great reflection of a real human need.

10-11-2010 06:06 AM
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dtx
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RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

Remember that army recruitment advert where the way to defuse the volatile situation was to remove his dark glasses? Anyone who eliminates that option is asking for bloodshed. Anyone wearing a burqa is a victim or an abuser.

They make me feel like I shouldn't be friendly to them because it would be like raping them. That is messed up.

10-11-2010 06:11 AM
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Gareth
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RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

dtx - unfortunately for you, you don't get to decide what other people wear based on your own feelings.
If you find it so offensive, that's your problem. You don't have the right however to dictate what other people wear so long as it is not an actual danger to you.




“Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” - Printcrime by Cory Doctrow
10-11-2010 06:13 AM
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Gareth
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RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

You know what I think personally if I see a woman in a burqa?
"Oh, there goes a woman in a burqa, probably a muslim - now, what was I doing?"

I really don't get why it's such a huge issue.




“Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” - Printcrime by Cory Doctrow
10-11-2010 06:18 AM
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dtx
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Post: #10
RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

Have you tried talking to one?

10-11-2010 06:19 AM
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Gareth
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Post: #11
RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

I've spoken to a jewish girl who was fairly covered up, didn't bother me at all, nor can I see why it would.




“Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” - Printcrime by Cory Doctrow
10-11-2010 06:21 AM
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Gareth
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Post: #12
RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

dtx - do you really support this?

Quote:
Women will face a smaller fine of around £130 because they are 'often victims who are not given any choice', the law states

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnew...z121TKhAVf




“Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” - Printcrime by Cory Doctrow
10-11-2010 06:51 AM
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dtx
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Post: #13
RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

When did I ever say I cared about laws? I'm talking about how people relate to the real world and to myself. Personal responsibility.

10-11-2010 06:58 AM
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Gareth
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RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

You seem to have implied that you do support a ban. If that is incorrect then I stand corrected.
A ban however must be enforced somehow, so if you are for a ban i'd like to know what penalty you propose.




“Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” - Printcrime by Cory Doctrow
10-11-2010 07:00 AM
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Post: #15
RE: Burqa ban - bad because it makes casual socialisation awkward?

I am more disturbed by the values that the burqa sometimes represents, the idea that a woman is exclusive "property" of her husband and bound to his will. Banning the burqa, of course, does nothing about the sort of attitudes it sometimes represents, and in effect punishes women who have this forced upon them.

In fact the burqa gives women from a very traditional Middle Eastern background a degree of freedom that they wouldn't otherwise have. There is no way that their husbands and families would allow women to go out in public without the burqa, so in many cases these women would end up as virtual prisoners.

I live in the country with the biggest muslim population in the world, and even the headscarf is not all that common, here in Jakarta anyway. I know that there are much more fundamentalist parts of the country. I've got nothing against the headscarf, nothing against the protection of female modesty. I think the burqa goes way beyond the protection of female modesty. I've never spoken to a woman wearing a burqa, never had the opportunity. From what I've seen these women are generally kept on a short leash and discouraged from interacting with men outside of their immediate families.

I have nothing against Islam. I have plenty against certain aspects of Middle Eastern culture that often get confused with Islam.

10-11-2010 09:25 AM
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