Evolution works through 2 things: mutating replicators, and some kind of environmental punishments and rewards

The faster replicators mutate, the faster they'll evolve - they'll also evolve faster if there's greater frequency of changing punishments and awards.

So, living things that replicate very rapidly - generally something simple and with only a few (or 1) cell per organism will replicate very fast. Let's say something like bacteria......

Let's also say someone keeps trying to kill it through various poisons (hmm, anti-biotics).

Now, if evolution is correct, we'd see the combination of rapid reproduction and lots of new toxins leading to more rapidly evolving strains of bacteria, right?

Hey! That seems to be happening - bacteria seem to be evolving resistance to antibiotics. Who'd have thought?

I can remember my Mum saying over 30 years ago (she was a nurse at the time) that one day we'd regret handing out antibiotics like sweets because it was natures way to evolve to overcome obstacles and defeat them.

This post was last modified: 08-07-2010 11:58 PM by cynara.

Another one I recall is from personal experience:

Take bunch of maggots
Kill them with caffeine (a neurotoxin to most small insects etc)
Let the survivors become flies
Kill the survivor's offspring with bleach now - cos caffeine no longer works! :O

To what  Cynara said: very interesting. I taught my children to wash their hands, but I didn't squirt them and everything around them with sanitizer. Sometimes we drink after each other. Not strangers, mind you, but each other. Except for ear infections and one bout of strep my nine year old has never had anti-biotics. He is never sick. The doctor's office wouldn't renew my other son's add meds because he hadn't been to the doctor in a year since his check-up. I was indignant with the nurse, like "but he was never sick! You should be happy." No stomach virus, no flu, nothing. I believe a lot of that is because I didn't run to the doctor every time they got a sniffle. I used over the counter kid's tylenol to help them feel better or guess what? A tissue! A runny nose isn't always so horrible. I let them get a cold when they were two or three and they are very healthy today.

This post was last modified: 08-08-2010 12:11 AM by raew.

MRSA ftw.

NB Changing the fitness function doesn't change rate of evolution, it changes the rate of change. Small point but useful to note that evolution doesn't stop so long as the thing continues breeding with random mutations. Monkeys never stopped evolving, for example, which confuses some people.

Not changing the fitness function won't halt evolution, but i'd say that changing it will cause an increase in how much variance you get. Changing antibiotics definitely result in more variant strains of bacteria for example.

Also, thankyou for using the term "fitness function" - yay, someone who actually understands!

We must understand that the species depend on mutual cooperation to their survival.
We have more bacteria in our body (100,000,000,000,000) than human cells (10.000.000.000.000). This group of bacteria represents another vital organ for our survival.
Evidence shows that this another vital organ mediates between our immune system  to the environment.
The antibiotic in this case destroys both essentia bacteria  for us and even the harmful bacteria which need us as hosts or as a renewable food.
The upshot: no evolutionary advance for any staff involved.

Right now, we're in the Golden Age of evolution.

I know someone who swears that peanut butter should not be banned from schools.  He says let those people who are so allergic that they can't be in the same building with peanut butter just die because that is natural selection.  

Over medicating everything -- why do people go to doctors to make them better when they should be more focus on keeping people healthy?  Eating good foods, getting exercise and living a less stressful life would keep more people more healthy.  

Spices kill many pathogenic bacteria otherwise people in India and other hot countries would die.  Some other herbs help the immune system.  Better than blasting the body cells with poisons.

It's natural selection, but natural selection is not an end in itself.

There's quite a few herbal medicines that help the immune system, but i'm not familiar with spices that kill pathogens directly. Got any examples?

i'm not familiar with spices that kill pathogens directly. Got any examples?

old spice and a lighter

LOL

Here you go:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/199...053307.htm

Alison

For those who find the full article tl:dr, here is the edited version:

"Garlic, onion, allspice and oregano were found to be the best all-around bacteria killers (they kill everything), followed by thyme, cinnamon, tarragon and cumin (any of which kill up to 80 percent of bacteria). Capsicums, including chilies and other hot peppers, are in the middle of the antimicrobial pack (killing or inhibiting up to 75 percent of bacteria), while pepper of the white or black variety inhibits 25 percent of bacteria, as do ginger, anise seed, celery seed and the juices of lemons and limes."

I might also add that many microbes are killed in contact with sugar, honey (due to the high sugar content?) and salt.  

Alison

If garlic kills everything, won't it kill good bac too?