You misunderstand me

Its not the cause or the people that bear the similarities.

Its the struggle and the desire for acceptance that have the similarities , I believe if we study the methods of these movements we may learn something.

This post was last modified: 09-08-2010 12:48 AM by Flardox.

I understand perfectly; what I was hoping for was something specific -- something other than a rather obvious generality for which mere belief bears no proof.

Everybody struggles.  Everybody has the desire for acceptance.  What is it about the struggles of these groups you mentioned that makes them any more significant than the struggles of individuals ... sheer numbers? ... their lack of complete success? ... the nuisances that they've made of themselves?  ... their failure to impress the majority with any urgency of need for recognition of rights?

The only significant tactic that I've noted in play is to elect people with your points of view to positions of power.  Unfortunately, the opposition is doing the same thing, and has been doing it for far longer, so any resolution in favor of the minority faces years of challenges and appeals, without an even chance of success.

Well you have your beliefs I have mine.... instead of shooting down everyone elses ideas fnord why dont you come up with one of your own?

Presented for general your consideration, a simple Pro-Aspie plan...

1. Obtain professional advocacy that does NOT involve anyone from the curebie movement.

2. Start off with advocating educational methods that are tailored to real Aspie individuals, instead of what neurotypicals and curebies believe is the 'typical' Aspie.

3. Set up and administer a trust (donor-funded -- not government-funded) for educational grants and scholarships that would be awarded to promising Aspies.

4. Set up an advocacy/support network for Aspies at a university, including a group home (staffed 24/7 by trained professionals - curebies need not apply) for Aspies that are going to that university.

5. Provide career counseling and job placement for Aspies who are attending university, as well as those who graduate.

6. Provide lifestyle counseling for Aspies who want to remain Aspies (again, curebies need not apply), with the goal of enabling them to both survive and thrive in a hostile or indifferent NT culture.

7. Make an ongoing documentary of the entire process, from grant application to graduation, that would emphasize both the humanity and the successes of real Aspies becoming degreed professionals.

8. Throughout the process, avoid affiliation with any other special-interest group, as they would divert attention from the Pro-Aspie program.  There is also the risk that another 'oppressed' group might latch on to the Pro-Aspie program just to siphon off much-needed funding and resources, and thus damage the integrity of the Pro-Aspie program.

Thats a good plan for when we have got the attention and or support for this to happen but....

You still haven't come up with a plan to get the atention and support required.

Wrong again.  That IS the plan.  Note the documentary.

What else would you suggest?  Marches and rallies?  Protests?  The Gay Rights movement tried these things and they still don't have the 'right' to same-sex marriages.  Riots?  The civil rights movement is still trying to live that one down.  Work stoppages?  Those of us who have jobs aren't about to risk unemployment.

Instead, we can not prove our "Aspies are People Too" claim without first demonstrating that we're just as good (if not better than) as any neurotypical, and only if we do this without outside support.  It will do our cause no good for some other organization to take credit for our success.

Instead, it will do those outside organizations a lot of good to claim, "See how nice we are?  We helped those poor Aspies who could not help themselves ... without us, they'd still be nothing..."

I've been in similar efforts, doing all the work, while politicians take all the credit just so that they could be re-elected.  Once back in office, they forget all about the cause that they once so vociferously supported back when they needed the votes.

No thank you.  We either do it on our own, or we don't do it at all.

I still think there are things we can learn from other civil rights movements.. I dont expect you and your prejudices to agree with me Fnord but that is your opinion keep yours and I'll keep mine.

You have not yet enumerated what those things are.  As for my so-called 'prejudices' ... ad hominem much?

There are many fringe groups looking for a 'noble' cause to latch onto, so as to gain some form of legitimacy for the fringe group.  The Gay Rights Movement in particular currently serves only itself.  For the GRM to claim that the poor, helpless Aspies would still be abused and neglected were it not for GRM intervention would draw favorable attention to the GRM -- the kind of attention that the GRM so desperately needs.

What you call 'prejudice', I call 'obvious' -- the Gay Rights Movement needs Aspies more than Aspies need the Gay Rights Movement.

This post was last modified: 09-08-2010 05:42 PM by Fnord.

I think there is much to be learned from he gay rights movement.
If we look at what they have done differently :
1) they riot over injustice (Stonewall)
2) they march - Gay pride day to celebrate thier difference *and* Pink Triangle day to remember injustice
3) they have formed legal advocacy groups which take their battle to the courts

Can we get Aspies to riot? - probably not it seems to be against our nature
While Autitic Pride Day may be a step in the right direction we need to draw more awareness as most people have never heard of it and we need to march over the injustices also
I think perhaps the greatest lesson to be learned is that the Gay Rights Movement only began making headway when they took their battles into the courts - currently there are lots of "support groups" for autistic families but little to enable us to protect our rights - if you can't afford to sue, then your really don't have any "rights"

This copied from a post I made on another forum site:


Gabriel Poirier 9 years old , died : 4/17/08
Hautes-Rivieres School
Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec

53-pound Gabriel, an autistic boy with special needs, died under under a blanket at Hautes-Rivieres School. His parents were initially told he was hiding under the blanket. A coroner revealed that Gabriel's teachers had tightly wrapped him in the blanket, leaving only the tips of his ears sticking out, as punishment when he became disruptive. They left him unsupervised in a corner for 20 minutes, returning when a timer sounded.

Also:

Garrett Halsey 16 years old (died : 12/23/04)
Grafton School Inc., Grafton group home

Autistic and mentally retarded boy died while he was restrained by 6 people who sat on his back. This occurred on his second day at the group home.

and :

Michael R. Lewis, III 15 years old (died : 8/25/2003)
Parchment High

On the first day of school, this autistic child was restrained on his stomach by six employees. He was dead within two hours.

http://www.caica.org/RESTRAINTS%20Death%20List.htm

I was recently refused access to a hospital because they would not accomodate my communication needs - I almost died before getting into a different hospital.  I was told that what happened was a hate crime, but because I didn't die and was not permanently injured it was not worth taking to court

I strongly identify with the struggels of the gay community (before the gay rights movement)

I have been homeless - my parents left me out on the street because they thought I was lazy and difficult (pre-diagnoses . . . back then they didn't believe girls could be autistic)

So yes there are autistics who are not safe at home, in schools, or in the hands of "professionals".  Like gays were, we are sometimes killed by "interventions" like the children above or subject to ECT, and other inhuman "treatments".  I know there are also autistics who have been killed by thier bullies - but nobody calles it aspiephobia or autist-bashing . . . when the articals get old they are forgotten.

I disagree. I empathize with autistics much better than I empathize with others, and if there was an autistic enclave, I would strongly consider moving to it.

1.No reason we couldn't riot, if we got enough of us in one place and we were pissed enough...

2. We should do more than march- marching is passe. It's easy to ignore. It's what activists are supposed to do. Let's do things we're not supposed to do. Like stim-ins, or hunger strikes, or chaining ourselves to things, or tactical frivolity.

3. True enough, but let's not discard other forms of action.

I think what we can learn from them we already have, to never give up and to not be afraid to speak out.

Interesting the laws in my home state south australia are thus.

If you express desire to hurt yourself or others then they are compelled to report you to the appropriate authorities.

If they are doing that then they should be struck off the register.

Meanwhile, around here, as I've said, comparing Asperger's/ Autism to accepted differences like being gay or whatever just gets 'that's different!'. Can't the activists think of anything to say in response to that? I've asked enough!

I think this is the worst analogy I've heard.

Homophobic and anti-autism prejudice or most other prejudices for that matter have entirely different rationales and causes. While youre correct in as much as homosexuality used to branded an 'illness' for the most part, while we are still subject to workplace discrimination we are arent subjected for example, to the same sort of public slander or threat of violence that homosexuals would be. When was the last time someone was beaten or murdered for being autistic?

I'm skeptical as to how much benefit there would be in  'allying' with other minority rights causes. We'd have little more success in communicating with them as we do with neurotypical people. A little empathy from the perspective of another minority group, but thats where it ends.