Whoa.

"Drama is life with the dull parts cut out" - Alfred Hitchcock.

There's a great book out there called "Story" by Robert McKee. It's not everything there is to say about story. But it's good. I liked it. And McKee was featured as a character in "Adapatation", a film starring Nicholas Cage.

Look, I'm not going to engage in a seminar, class, discussion, or any other discursion, into the art of writing.

I came to this board for two reasons: we have an Asperger's child in our household, and I am interested in telling a story in which the main character is autistic savant. How autistic? I don't know. How savant? That I know.

If you are so inclined, help me get the details of day-to-day frustrations of dealing with the normative world right from the point of view of one who has been diagnosed as autistic/Asperger's. That's all I'm asking.

Theory of Story is a vast subject. There's lot's of stuff out there on it. Google it. I did, and learned a lot. Some of it I thought was good, some was so much bushwah.

"Look, I'm not going to engage in a seminar, class, discussion, or any other discursion, into the art of writing."

I see. Some of us may discuss it though, threads can often go off on a tangent if people get interested in one part of it.
Happens a lot.

Does the mother of the aspie boy have information for you that is helpful, or from observing the boy himself and talking to him you could find out the way he feels.

Exactly.

This whole "Rain Man" thing...

I saw that flick. What I came away with was that Raymond and his brother came to love each other. That's pretty much the message most folks came away with. It wasn't about autism or retarded or savant. It was about people connecting.

It was about humans.

I didnt get that at all.
I felt at the end that 'rainman' didnt love him, he preffered his routine and possessions. The brother seemed mixed up.

Ok I think my main annoyance is why the focus on autistic savants and not just the rest of us that are normal or above-average that aren't savants? After all only about 10% from what I read of Autistics are Savants as well. It's like continuing with this "Rainman" image of Autistics that doesn't help us because they expect us to be all 'savants' or all 'low functioning'. What is with the 'romanticism' so to speak with autistics having to always be portrayed as savants or mentally challenged in books and film? If you really want people to understand those on the autism spectrum, don't limit to stereotypes. As I tell people and have been told myself, once you've see one Autistic/Aspie, you've seen just that... one person. Just from looking at that one person you can't portray those on the autism spectrum near effectively and accurately without putting misconceptions at play. You only end up effectively causing more damage than good. That's just my honest opinion.

Yeah, I understand, I think.

I am beginning to see that metaphor is not a good way at all to try to say something on this board.

I need to be a lot more literal.

Let me spin out a little more in the way of characters.

Ivor - the son. George - the father. Kathleen - the mom.

George is the kind of person who can sit in the cold with a telescope, and look all night long at some celestial object. Kathleen is the kind of woman who wants a happy baby. Ivor likes to sit and rock and recite numbers.

Kathleen feels abandoned by her own child. George is happy to have him sit out on those cold nights. Ivor's behaviors make George laugh in delight. He has an intuitive understanding of Ivor's inner logic. Kathleen pushes for normative behavior. She doesn't get Ivor's sensibility.

Then there's the therapist. Help me out here. How stupid can a therapist be with respect to autism? Judging from what I've read so far, pretty damn stupid.

Now what drives the story forward is that George has the patience to listen to the numbers his son recites. George is the kind of person who can squat in a sling in a rain forest canopy for months, watching monkeys make eye contact, and cataloguing each eye-roll. He has the patience to decode his son's world. So he picks up on the whole number thing with Ivor.

So I ask the community: help me build a good Ivor.

A note: when I use the words "wacky" or "odd", those are value judgements from the normative perspective. Keep in mind that "normal" is a mathematical term. Nobody is normal. We are all wacky and odd. That's what makes us unique, and in my estimation, what makes people highly lovable.

The story is not really all about autism. It's about randomness. I need a vehicle (character) that can see pattern where others don't. I could have a character get hit in the head with a hammer as a child. See "The Dead Zone" by Stephen King. Child suffers head trauma, turns into political assassin. Great story.

Now you can all beat me up for using autism as a means to my story-telling end. But there are models out there that say that we are all savants, but something gets in the way in the case of NT's, while autistics do not develop this obstacle. I find that interesting.

I am also fascinated by, and want to talk about, different ways of thinking. And that much-needed answers come from unexpected quarters.

So you might be autistic, and not savant. How do you know? My feeling is that every person on this planet is creative. But something gets in the way. See "The Artist's Way".

Aren't you worried that giving away so much detail of your book, that someone might take the idea and plagiarise it?
Any one can read this forum, except for the general/members section.

I can only speak for myself, but  in my experience NTs do not find me highly lovable. In fact, my perspectives seem to transgress some of their cherished ideals.  My perspective is that the "normals" are very possessive about their status and even my body language seems to threaten disorder.  Someone on these boards made the observation that NTs like to try to build consensus, even if that consensus is wrong.  Most times I have no vested interest in NT consensus because as an "oddball" I have little chance to benefit from such consensus. I was at a meeting the other day and everyone was eyes agog on the speaker, whereas I didn't see the significance of being there or following along with the crowd. During his speech I left the room and came back several times. Afterward I realized I had committed a social faux pas by doing that.  However, to my mind, there was no point in standing around listening to him reiterate information that I already knew.  I didn't mean to show disrespect, but unfortunately that is how I came across to some people who were there.  Also, it is very difficult for me to stand in a crowd because I can't maintain the posture that NTs use when listening to a speaker. I end up fidgeting or staring at the lights on the wall or twirling my hair and this becomes noticeable to the NTs who then react toward me as thought I am mentally defecient.  At such times it seems my whole existence is a threat to the status quo in many ways.  My point is, I think your character Ivor would likely be someone whose existence threatens the social status and values of the NTs.

Ideas don't make stories, writers do. Anyone can come up with an idea, but it takes much more time and effort to make it into a good book.

I think the pattern of a seven year old boy thinking would be very different from the pattern of a thirteen year old, or a thirty year old. It would also change itself throughout the day. There may be sun and shadows of meaning. Is it not just a matter of degree of sun and or shadow?

I am liking your curiousity. I don't mind trying to figure out metaphors. I use a lot myself, so I use them for you. The story you write, Vendaia, will be a historical document for the mother and child you write for. But it could not be used to predict the future for the relationship. It would be interesting to make a word sketch now and in a years time, to make another. Watch the imperceptible changes. They will happen.  

Who knows what a persons emotional toolbox is capable of at any given time? What colours can be acertained? We assume we are born with the capacity to see the same colours as everyone else. But i learn from researchers, each of us has different ratio of visual receptors. Some have more/less of cones/rods. Such complexity we humans.

But I am still lost, because I do not know whether my mother loves me or whether i love her. But the knowing of this has come about very recently. The knowing is very important. No matter how many words I know, if i do not use the right ones so that somebody else hears what I MEAN, then i will not even know i am lost. This is a growing point. ouch.

That said, i would not change the tools i have been born with. And i do not want anyone to think i represent anyone other than myself. I am not typical. I hope one day the boy you know can tell you what you ask.
becca

So folks, if you feel so inclined, steer me clear of misconceptions, stereotyping, tell me something of yourselves, whatever you want to say. But don't take offense. I didn't come here to offend. When people ask me about myself and my situation, I don't take offense. I try to tell them what it is like, how it feels, what my life journey has been like. I try to build understanding.

Any chance you could answer my question then?

Maybe Ivor could be a boy who is very happy in his own little world but resists rather strenuously being moved away from his favourite activities. He would therefore have a long attention span and probably a reading age far ahead of his chronological age.

The mother would probably feel that the husband and son were forming a relationship she was excluded from so she might take up drinking/going out a lot/getting heavily involved in some kind of parent's group.

I feel she might want to have another child but this would set up conflict in her mind as what if that child were autistic too?  On the one hand, she could get a baby who is neurotypical like her but she could also end up with one who is anywhere on the autistic spectrum as I would not be surprised if the father has Aspergers.

Over time, you would see some improvement in Ivor but it's possible the marriage would break up if Kathleen continued to feel isolated and that the situation in her mind would never improve.

I can see the parents having trouble finding suitable pre-school and school environments for their son and conflict developing between the parents about homeschooling him instead.

Is the father supposed to be Asperger's. cause that character sounds like one.

That's not fair.  We know little about your story.we don't even know what genre is. for a comedy or a children book, having the protaganist save the earth would be be an acceptable plot device. for a drama it would be absurd.  

That's too bad. Austism is the focus of many conflicts within the home and without (look around this site for one of them). Lot of material for a enterprising author interested in the subject. :wink:

A lot of NT's are overfocused on Savantism IMO. It might be just positive thinking. but it might just be glossing over the difficultities Autism brings. I do not believe that the classic notion of a savant implies creativity though. for example though the savent pianist may be able to play mozart by ear they may not be able to compose new music.  The problem I have with this I think it can be apply to any ability of an autistic or aspie diminishing that ablity to a quirk of our disability.

I am curious as to what the main conflict of the story is?

First: Am I concerned that someone might steal the idea for my story? No. Not at all. Were I to worry about that sort of thing, I would be a very fearful, unhappy person.

For some info, if any are wondering, the article that gave me one of the ideas for the story:
http://www.centreforthemind.com/publicat...hmetic.cfm

There is also the case of Ramanujan, a mathematical prodigy. No one can say for sure whether he was autistic or not. He was a "prodigy".

As for whether George has Asperger's or not, that's a good idea for a conflict thread.

Brightman, is this the question you are referring to? "As much as I would love to answer this I can't help but wonder what people here will get out of helping you earn a living, if that is the goal of your conquest? "
I will address the "I can't help but wonder what people here will get out of helping you ..." part. Let us suppose that the story actually gets published in one form or another. Then "Thanks and Acknowledgements for Helping Me Understand..." would be in order, I think. Let me address  "the concern of what happens to those here who contributed to your work if you paint Autism in a bad light?" The bad light part is a subjective judgement on the part of readers. I have no control over what readers think. My intent is to make Ivor a sympathetic character, the protagonist in the story. It is a certainty that autistic people, like any other people, come in all shapes, sizes, and temperaments. It is also a certainty that bad things are going to happen to Ivor, and he is likely to not respond like Jesus in certain situations.
Let me give an example from my own perspective: http://www.glbtq.com/arts/transsexuality_film.html. Some get it way wrong, some get it right. And it does have consequences for people like me. Negative portraits up the murder rate for TS's.
Writers who actually do their homework do a more respectful and accurate job of portraying characters. So a lot of the quality of what I write about Ivor's autism depends on the quality of the information I get here, and from other persons who are diagnosed as autistic. I regard their stories as more accurate than any other sources.
Brightman, I wonder about your use of the word "conquest". Curious...
One thing that might make things a little clearer here... I, as a writer, do not write for the sake of money or fame. I write because I like writing. And I try to make the characters interesting. Interesting to me. I try to make them come alive and surprise me. This is not to say I am not interested in what happens to the work when I've more or less finished it. It's like having a child. A parent hopefully takes pleasure in the raising of the child, despite the difficulties of parenting. Once the child reaches a certain age, the parent hopes the child goes on to great things. Most of the time she doesn't. But the parent can be reasonably happy if the child makes her own way, and is happy if the kid doesn't wind up in jail or dead. And if someone says "Suzie is a great kid. You're a good mom." - well - that is a great happiness for a parent. But one thing I know, loving parents love to be around their kids, at every age. Same with a story for a writer.
So I hope that helps answer your question(s), Brightman.