I am a female to male transsexual, or a genetic female who identifies as male. I have this horribly annoying gender therapist (who I am going to get rid of and get a new one) who seems to not get that Asperger's means that I'm not going to act like a neurotypical boy.

For example, she got concerned that I wasn't "serious" about getting testosterone because I really did not want to go to a very large transgender convention, because clearly someone who has lived as a guy for a year and a half is not serious about being a guy. The reason why I didn't want to go was because I was really not wanting to be in a new and noisy place with about two hundred people there. I did go, and while the noise wasn't too bad I did have to have a conversation with three people, which actually wasn't that bad either but it luckily was not small talk but a discussion on our treatment in society. I really hate small talk because it's pointless and it's so hard to talk about the weather and stuff when there are so much more interesting things.TIt doesn't help that I was aware that many people would be watching how I interact with them to see if I'm thinking of them as a male or a female. The way I interact with males and females is identical and I'm not sure what signal it sends. For the record, going to transgender conventions is actually not part of the WPATH Standards of Care as a prerequisite to hormones.

There are other things, that are pretty ridiculous. For example, I do not necessarily act the way most guys act because I don't pick up how to act in social situations. Almost all my friends are male however I just don't know how to sit like a neurotypical guy, how to walk like a neurotypical guy, what interests neurotypical guys generally have, how neurotypical guys interact, what things are taboo for guys to do and so forth. It ends up that I act pretty androgynously, since I never picked up anything from girls either. My childhood also did not involve either boy play or girl play. It mostly involved reading and making up stories. So, she came to the conclusion I'm gender queer. No, I'm just Aspergian and can't tell gender roles.

She also has issues with me not having "life skills" in certain areas. For one, I can't wash dishes because it makes me sick, it used to be really hard to get up on my own, I struggle with public transportation and I have a hard time organizing. This is rather below average for a sixteen year old but I think I'm doing pretty well for someone who three years ago had the social and life skills of perhaps the average six year old.

So, this post is not meant to be me whining about my idiotic gender therapist, though it might sound that way. It's mean to be an example about how transgender autistic spectrum people can be discriminated against when they try to seek treatment. I'm wondering how many transgender aspies and auties are here, and whether you've experienced the same bull that I have?

There are quite a few transgendered people on the spectrum, some at varying stages of transition.

In your situation, I would pay particular attention to this:
"For the record, going to transgender conventions is actually not part of the WPATH Standards of Care as a prerequisite to hormones."

Surely in any other area of medicine that would be actionable as a formal complaint for malpractice? Is this person a specialist or a general psychologist? Either way, i'd report them - especially if this conference is at all commercial, since that calls into question how impartial they are.

Feel free to tell me to buzz off, but if you don't understand gender roles, how did you manage to identify as male in the first place?

@ Gareth I think therapists are meant to take a kind of qualitative view of how you behave so that they wouldn't decide that attending such a convention was mandatory when it was in fact not but would just note it as a slight indication that "the patient shows anxiety and disinterest in socialising with transgender peers and therefore may not be fully exposed to the realities of transitioning." or "does not have a support network of people who understand the experience" both of which are valid points, although the former may be based on a misinterpretation of the reasons for not wanting to attend transgender events. Therapists can only speculate about their client's reasons for doing things because the client may choose to withold that information or may not understand themselves why they are nervous about attending a transgender event. I think it is a question of communicating properly that you would be nervous meeting any large group of people, whatever the circumstances even if you weren't transgender.

I agree that if you don't think your therapists has a good intuitive understanding of you and/or you don't have good rapport, then you should change therapists, but I don't think what we've been told necessarily suggests malpractice. This isn't meant to come across as an attack. I know that many therapists see themselves as 'gatekeepers' wishing to prevent people from making mistakes with their bodies and this can undermine therapeutic trust and be very frustrating for someone trying to get something they desperately want/need, but often professionals are doing their best to deal with real people when all they have to help them are a series of theories and assessment criteria which just don't match up to the reality of individuals.

I hope the change of therapist helps. I think its probably best to outline at the outset why you behave differently in certain situations. I also think it is a general problem amongst all transgender people that therapists seem to expect them to exhibit steretypical gendered behaviour of the opposite gender, when what you actually mean is that you feel you want to be the other sex. That does not necessarily mean you want to be the other gender as it is socially constructed, and it is possible to want the former without the latter.

If you want to be a dude, you should be able to receive the operation needed to become one. You shouldn't need to expose yourself to a large group of people, trans or not, in order to receive treatment.

Actually, being interviewed by professionals in the field ensures that the transitional person is going through with it for the 'right' reasons, and not just on a whim, for economic advantage, to dodge justice, or because the only alternative is suicide.

However, the professionals should be familiar with other aspects of personality, and not just gender-identification issues. If they're not, then they may not support the transitional person's needs, and may not endorse any further procedures.

Best wishes, Azariphale! I hope you get what you need!

She has skills only for issues for transgendered people. Try to teach her about your autism and why it makes you do things differently. I imagine she is only used to NT transgendered people. This should be a learning experience for her. It will make her a better gender therapist unless she maybe needs to find another job.....

Gareth: maybe it is, I actually just saw her and it looks like I might get testosterone, after a neuropsych evaluation to assess my stability.
Querty: I have difficulty with gender roles, not with gender or biological sex. When it comes to many gender things that are not purely cultural, such as refusing to play "mommy," I fit the male standard. My inability to understand gender roles is why I waited until I was 11 to realize I wasn't a girl and 13 to realize I was a guy. I know that I am a boy because of my relationship with my body. I am very distressed by my chest, my hips, my voice (which luckily I have managed to deepen) and my genitals. I desperately want to change those and have wanted to have a male body long before I knew what it meant to have a male body socially. According to a lady who evaluated me, this experience is common with autistic spectrum people who are transgendered.
Robexib: Fnord said it well
Fnord: thank you ^.^
Duck Fetish Girl: Good advice

Apparently there's a joke in the transgender community that most people would not pass the "test" for their own birth gender if evaluated by a GID specialist - personally I think that if anyone is distressed enough to seek out help and they can't come to accept their existing body with purely psychological therapy, then they should be allowed to have a sex change operation regardless of others opinions.

But then I am generally of the view that anyone has the right to do whatever they want to their own body.

Alright, thanks, that makes sense. Actually no it doesn't, but if I understood completely I'd probably be in the same boat as you, eh? To me those things are largely part of gender roles and then one's body is just a body and not who they are. But for you the two are separated.

This post was last modified: 04-22-2010 01:19 PM by q w e r t y.

@ Gareth, that's a view I share. Unfortunately it's inconsistent with the view that people are entitled to sue for negligently allowing them to have the operation. If you want rights over your own body you can't then hand the responsibility for your decisions over to another person.

It is indeed, and I don't hold that view........ of course, one could say it would be negligent for a professional not to offer relevant advise that would be reasonable.

Just keep trying.  I don't know if there is a recommended age that most doctors will wait for certain treatments.  

Try this for convention:  Make up a small questionnaire with questions that you need to know or just ask some people to write a few comments about their experiences.  Write also a small explanation with it that you have problems talking to people in crowds and why you need to ask people questions.  You don't need their name or anything.  Many people will help you.  Try staying near a cafe or eating area so people have a table to write on.  

Life skill help is separate but either you can get help to learn them or live with relatives or in a group home if you can't live alone.

First of all, who cares whether you act “neurotypical”, if you’re a guy, you’re a guy. Your therapist is dumb.

Second, you don’t have to go to conventions to transition, it sounds like your therapist is a douche. My therapist is pretty cool (I am FtM transgender). Try finding a dude therapist if you can. I also think I’m aspie btw, but that’s not my official diagnosis because I am just now considering it. But it has made me rethink what my social interactions/personality might be once I fully transition. I tended to think a lot of my shyness might have had to with me being transgender, but I know other transgender people who are not like this, so I have to consider that transitioning will help me be ‘myself’, but it wont necessarily make me “normal”.


Third, there is no right or wrong way to be any gender. Its your IDENTITY that matters. I am thinking my father may have aspergers, and he is not a "typical" guy, in fact all of my brothers, and me included, are a bit feminine for being guys, but none of us are gay. Its just who we are.


I will let you know what my experience is; especially if I receive an official aspie diagnosis. Good luck, and replace your therapist.

-Sathya (Sathya is a boys name btw)

I feel fairly similar on that. It's one of the reasons that  I see a few Aspie qualities in SF fandom and computer geekery, and feel really incredibly bad on the NT 'scattershot' approach to making a conversation (i.e. start anywhere and keep changing subjects until you either get a 'hit' or close down the conversation).  I can see when other people do it, and observe that it's considered to be a particularly female way of oiling the wheels of conversation, but  I get awkward pauses if  I try anything like that, whereas if I'm talking about a subject I'm interested in I'm sometimes hard to stop.

I don't have trans experience, but  I didn't feel strongly gender-marked in childhood (and didn't play with anyone except my sister).  I've also met an Aspie type who started out as female and identifies as genderqueer or asexual,  I think. Boys' socialisation and physical games didn't attract me (I have a mild physical disability), but  I wasn't a girly-girl at all (no 'babies' or 'housework' or 'dressing-up' games). The people  I identified with were adults because they talked to me about books, and kids didn't.  I didn't feel like what people think of as a normal, feminine woman, but since  I grew up at the same time as the feminist movement there was a fair bit of redefining lying about to be claimed :-)

It's actually rather cool that there are different variances and identities (genderqueer, asexual, gay or lesbian, bisexual, pansexual, FTM, MTF, etc) around today -- some of the 'less obvious' ones of those weren't about when  I was growing up, but presumably the people were already about feeling oddly uncomfortable.  I have a strong feeling that there were very few FTMs around in the UK when  I was growing up (journalism, books and people I'd met/seen had a huge bias towards MTFs), but  I suspect it's easier for a woman to pass, because they went 'under the radar' while the wider society were aware (even if only from jokes) that visible larynx/big feet/big mouth might be cues for crossdressing/transgender men-as-women.