I don't understand why you're so obviously angry, buckthesystem. I personally think that Asperger's and Autism are not the same thing, although I understand that clearly almost no one agrees with me on that. My opinion isn't intended as an attack on anyone.
Well, if you can’t understand that an attack on someone else with autism who happens to be more severely affected than you or your son is an attack on the rest of us, then you have a lot of learning to do. If you feel the need to dissociate yourself from other autists because of their levels of autism to maintain your own dignity and to ensure you get better treatment than them, then you need some support to understand that an attack on one of us is an attack on us all in many ways.
I also think people who are capable of functioning in society need different services than people who aren't. It doesn't help anyone to have someone who's challenges are mainly in the area of appropriate socialization sitting in the same classroom with a nonverbal child trapped in a cycle of near constant self stemming. I don't deny that either is human or hate either of them.
That argument is so full of holes that it is unreal. There are not necessarily any difficulties with the two types you describe being in the same room. After all, one can’t talk to the others, and the other probably doesn’t want to. However, that slightly flip and ironic point aside, you will achieve no sort of equality for any autist if you split us up as a group to be dealt with. What we need is a common approach which starts with a uniform assessment of the needs of each. What you are proposing is that your son gets pulled out from assoiating with that child simply on the basis that they have apparently conflicting needs, which they don’t. If the two things can be managed sufficiently well to allow both to learn to the best of their abilities, then they should be able and allowed to.
The trouble is that the education and general culture system all too frequently says ... ‘ah, autist ... in that room there with all the others .. ah, normal, you go over there and join society”. Or to put it another way ... “ah, normal ... gun, ammo, uniform, training, usefulness, over there ... ah, autist ... oh for goodness sakes don’t insult us by thinking you can be a soldier!”
Can't you disagree with me without presuming that I must be full of hate? I don't even understand where that's coming from.
Well, if you don’t understand, and I have already told you, then telling you again aint gonna help. But denigrating a young girl because of her traits and the way it affects her, and demanding that your son is kept away from her is, in my opinion, very very close to hate. Viz:
I think it also would have been a crushing blow to his self esteem to see someone like the Autistic girl my wife worked closely with in the school system -- who was virtually non verbal and came out of the bathroom covered in her own menstrual blood laughing hysterically to herself -- as his peer
Now if that isn’t denying her the dignity of humanity, decrying her for what she is, and placing her below your son, I don’t know what it is. Furthermore, if it did affect his poor wee fragile humility and dignity, it is surely your job as a parent to teach him that her status is no reflection on him, but that his ability to be compassionate and supportive will reflect upon him very well. Furthermore, it may actually help him with his socialisation. Seems to me the parenting aint that good here.
I am not utterly imbalanced. I've managed quite well as a soldier for over 16 years including 5 deployments to war zones where in no case did I flip out or do anything to support the notion that giving me a gun was a bad idea. I don't understand why your first post to me would drop to the level of making personal attacks that have nothing to do with the topic of discussion. Nor do I understand why you presume that my entire lineage down through the ages is doomed to be hopelessly warped on the basis of a few posts I made here.
Oh for crying out loud! You were the one who suggested it, by saying that if you had been diagnosed, or had claimed to be autistic, you wouldn’t have been allowed access to such things. You made it the topic of discussion.
As for your lineage being hopelessly warped ... well, now, you see, that IS offensive. It seems to me that you are describing anybody with autism or Asperger’s as hopelessly warped and that such a status is a ‘doom’. You see, what I was saying was that by your daft attitudes you are entrapping your son and his progeny in the same dark place you seem to think we all are. I didn’t say he or his were doomed. I didn’t say he or his were hopelessly warped.
YOU said all of those things. Seems to me the truth is outing itself here.
You're using the word "Autistic" as if it means the same thing as "Asperger's." Some people may believe that, but obviously I'm not one of them. I don't claim to be Autistic. I'm not trying to insult anyone.
I suspect you need to do a little research with your eyes and ears open. Seems to me that you have decided autistic is a bad thing, and so you are denying it in yourself and your son. I have never been on the Autism Speaks site, but from what I hear on here, that is the sort of approach they might be likely to take. It doesn’t exist as an unalterable fact. It is something that can be cured. Drivel. It can be ameliorated at most.
I say again, if you want not to be autistic, then there is really very little point in you being here. You’re not going to get much agreement about that. Furthermore, it is rather against the values of this site to deny autism by use of calculated ambivalence. There have been many discussions here about not accepting elitism. And you ARE elitist. If we take your general tenor and combine it with your separationist stance, it is way too easy to feel insulted.
In fact what you are saying is that the whole impetus of this site is wrong because it combines two things as being the same, or at least closely related. Such ‘sedition’ seems contrary to your presence. In fact it comes a lot close to the sort of thing that gets people banned because they just want to stir up trouble. Are you a troll?
Why? I don't hope anything bad happens to you. Both my son and I have Asperger's.
And I don’t hope anyhting bad happens to you. The metaphor refers to you having to swallow some of the BS you punt. I know that irony is not an autistic trait (apparently), and even less an American trait (apparently), but I should have thought that the fall from grace metaphor was pretty well understood in the world.
I don't care whether you edit your post or not, but I hope you would engage me in a bit more of a civilized discussion in the future. You're making all kinds of weird assumptions that I'm basically evil because... what? I guess because you are convinced my opinion is wrong. If I thought the world was flat would you assume I was evil, too? I really just don't get it.
Well, I base my arguments on experience and what is said. I never called you evil. Wide of the mark to the point of ...oh dear, the howlers don’t let me use that word! ... but not evil. I rarely believe in the concept of evil, as it happens. As to the what ... well, I think I’ve covered that above. And the world is flat. At least it is in a two dimensional monochromatic view, which is pretty much where I think you are. You have said not one thing to convince me otherwise.
Setting aside whatever specifics of my beliefs that you disagree with and focusing solely on the question of whether the proposed changes to the DSM are a good idea -- if you look at national media coverage on the subject or even this particular thread, clearly I'm not the only person with Asperger's who thinks they aren't a good idea.
Hmm, well, mebbe, but you should look at some of the other threads which have covered this topic in the past. I think you might get a bit more of a rounded picture.
[quote=mysterywalker]And this spectrum line of thought has also struck me as very illogical in the sense that if there's really an Autistic spectrum, then the logical conclusion would be that every human being on Earth is on that spectrum -- to varying degrees. It makes a lot more sense to me to have specific diagnoses, talk about varying degrees of severity within those diagnoses, and perhaps if there really is some benefit to be gained by doing so, maybe group clusters of them together in related "families" of conditions or some such.
Well, we can agree on most of that at least. If you look at the other threads you will see much in common with my thinking.