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How to cope with being given the cold shoulder
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Capricorn



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Post: #61
RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

BeNdEr Wrote:
Capricorn,

I'm an NT and I had a best friend with AS and we would get into many disagreements about things.  At times I wouldn't understand exactly why he was angry at me or even what for.  Most of the time our fights would be pointless because we would both be saying the same thing but in a different way.  There was one time where I told him there was something inapropriate that he had said and he got so mad at me.  He yelled at me and stormed away.  I was surprised because I was shocked and curious as to why it made him so mad.  I tried calling him and when he answered he would yelled and most of the time he wouldn't answer.  My friends said to give up, but the guy was really my best friend so then I gave up for a bit and tried talking to him online.  Well I thought that would help but clearly it did not.  I just gave him his space and then one day I decided to call and him to see how he was doing and its almost as if nothing happened.  I think if you just give him the space to think about exactly what happened then he'll cool down.  I feel as though during the time I wasn't talking to him I reflected on exactly what I had maybe said or done or maybe how I worded what I was saying.  Right now we don't speak because we broke up awhile ago...and its too hard to talk to him.  Well its hard for me...he doesn't even contact or anything now which hurts but I know he would want me to pick up and move on. Sad

Just give it sometime I'm sure everything will work out in the end! Smile


Hi Bender,

Thanks for the message and the positive words. he has basically said that if I wait long enough he will come back. What I am thinking about now though is how a future relationship could work. Would I always have to worry about him taking offense at a comment and then have to go through all this again, with him getting furious and ignoring me? Another problem is that over the last week I have seen quite a few mutual friends and they have all very strongly urged me to on no account get back into any kind of friendship with him. It is really ironic because their reaction to our friendship and the prospect of us renewing it is almost exactly the same as my reaction to his relationship with his g/f and my reaction to the news they were back together. It is all very confusing.

01-11-2010 07:52 PM
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kevout2



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RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

[/quote]

Hi Bender,

Thanks for the message and the positive words. he has basically said that if I wait long enough he will come back. What I am thinking about now though is how a future relationship could work. Would I always have to worry about him taking offense at a comment and then have to go through all this again, with him getting furious and ignoring me? Another problem is that over the last week I have seen quite a few mutual friends and they have all very strongly urged me to on no account get back into any kind of friendship with him. It is really ironic because their reaction to our friendship and the prospect of us renewing it is almost exactly the same as my reaction to his relationship with his g/f and my reaction to the news they were back together. It is all very confusing.
[/quote]

I'll say it again; I think this young man is lost and confused.  My suggestion is to not abandon him.  It looks as if you're the only source of any kind of moral support he's got.  As for your friends' suggestions; I think it's simply general intolerance for anybody with AS traits.  This young man will encounter enough of such prejudice and hatred in his lifetime; (probably will) just not understand why; and grow even more bitter and frustrated as he gets older.

Given that he's in his early 20's and probably does not yet have as many scars and callouses; are there AS support or social groups that he can mingle in?  That might be the best thing for him.  He needs a pathway to grow and develop in line with his strengths and potential.  Unfortunately his family does not seem like a beacon of support.

He's probably deluding himself into thinking that his girlfriend is his best friend and will always stand by him, honor him and support him.  He probably has self-doubt about how he's treated her just because so many (NT) people always say he's "bad".  He's probably trying to correct his Aspie-like, eccentric behavioral traits thinking such is linked to bad character.  But it won't work.  He can be the most honest, obedient and faithful husband in the world and it just won't work for a wife who expects and demands NT behaviors.  Loyalty and even daily habitual expressions of affections (like goodbye kisses, etc.) will be futile in context of making the marriage last.

01-11-2010 08:28 PM
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BeNdEr



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Post: #63
RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

Capricorn Wrote:
Hi Bender,
Thanks for the message and the positive words. he has basically said that if I wait long enough he will come back. What I am thinking about now though is how a future relationship could work. Would I always have to worry about him taking offense at a comment and then have to go through all this again, with him getting furious and ignoring me? Another problem is that over the last week I have seen quite a few mutual friends and they have all very strongly urged me to on no account get back into any kind of friendship with him. It is really ironic because their reaction to our friendship and the prospect of us renewing it is almost exactly the same as my reaction to his relationship with his g/f and my reaction to the news they were back together. It is all very confusing.


It made me worry about the future of me being friends with him again as well.  If I knew a fight could start between us I would avoid it at all costs.  Usually I hate losing arguments but this taught me it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong as long as you agree to disagree.  The mutual friends can state their opinion its whether or not you feel comfortable.  I don't feel as though you should abandon him as a friend afterall you both are best friends!  Message me sometime and we can talk a little! Smile

01-11-2010 09:04 PM
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Duckfetishgirl



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RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

Capricorn Wrote:

Duckfetishgirl Wrote:
I think he is more than a bit spoiled. Like Christian Weston Chandler(google him and you will see) and has never been held acvcountable for his treatment of others. Thankfully I have. I used tio be so upset with my parents calling me out on things I thought I did nothing wrong. I am glad they did, because I could easily have been CWC's female equivalent. Tell his parents. They have a right to know how their hard earned money is being spent. If I was his mother, I would thank you for it. That girl could give him an std that he may be stuck with for life like Herpes. Also suggest if she claims to be pregnant to have a DNA test. The last thing he needs is to be stuck with the cost of another man's baby. A call girl would be a better solution to that stupid ***. They at least are tested regularly and are paid well so they won't trap him with a child or manipulate his emotions.


Hi Duckfetishgirl,

Yes, I also think he is a bit spoiled, but more than that I think he has been emotionally neglected. Just taking the example of me having to explain to him what stress was, the most significant point about that was, why had no one else ever done that before? I mean, I have known him for years, but I am in no way the closest person to him. His family have lived in the same house as him for almost 25 years, and so I am presuming now that his parents must have been unaware for all that time that he didn't know what stress was, because if they had known that, his mother or father would have explained it to him, right? And then if you take that and multiply it by all the other emotions he is unable to identify, well I feel bad for him that no one has stepped in there sooner to try and help him out with this. Because, at the end of the day, I am not actually one of his parents. All this is not really any of my responsibility. It is just really sad to think that his own family don't understand the depth of his confusion about things, or perhaps they do understand, but haven't been able to help him out in any way.

This is especially sad, because its obvious just from the few things I have been able to help him with that when people explain things to him logically, he understands everything pretty much immediately and retains that information and uses it. So if people had started doing this YEARS ago, just think how much better his life would have been and would be now.

Capricorn


I understand. If I was diagnosed early with AS I would be better equipped to cope with situations. I grew up never having a clue and thinking it was my fault I was strange.


I have a gift for enraging people, but if I ever bore you it will be with a knife.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qmud3AsmMM

If I offended you, please let me know via pm. I tend to do it without realizing it. I can be clueless as to how my humor comes across. Please be nice about it.

01-12-2010 02:12 AM
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Capricorn



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Post: #65
RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

Kevin,

I don't want to abandon him, but at the moment he has abandoned me. I just wish I knew what he was thinking regarding me at the moment. It depresses me to think that he is probably still very angry with me and also that I have no idea when he might get in touch again. Most depressing is the feeling that he only sees how upset he feels and doesn't see how upset I am about all this, even though I have explained how upset I feel. Or perhaps he does see that, but doesn't want to think about it. When I apologised to him about upsetting him I also explained in detail how upset I was and why, in the hope that he could see the big picture and the whole situation and try to see things in perspective as this being an issue about us and not just him, but he didn't make any comment on my feelings at all - he ignored them and concentrated on telling me how angry he is.

Regarding joining any kind of AS group, I think at the moment he is too proud to consider that he has AS. His parents' attitude may have encouraged him to see it in a very negative way and reject it. I realise now that he has a much bigger ego than I had suspected and probably for him, having AS is a shameful idea and he thinks of it as some kind of mental disability. I don't know if it is safe to even raise this issue with him. Talking about AS might send him into another rage at me and that is the last thing I want.

As for the girlfriend, I can't see it working either. The simple reason is that she is very very needy and demanding. She is the kind of girl who need to have the attention of every person (i.e. man) in the room. This was immediately apparent when I met her. We were with a large group of people and she put on this babyish act, which was like a performance to make men look at her, so that she ended up surrounded by a circle of guys who were all drooling all over her. Later on, when there were no attentive guys in the room and only a group of women, she went into a sulk, because my friend was talking to other people, other women. She hated that and according to his friends behaves that way all the time. My friend said to me that she knew she behaved badly and was trying to be good now, but that will not last. If anything she will get more and more frustrated with him because he doesn't shower her with the kind of attention she needs.

Bender,

I think if we resume our friendship, it will have to be on a totally different level. He has always said he wants me to mentor him and give him advice on how to fit in well with people, but the trouble is he can't take any constructive criticism. If he wants real, honest advice then he needs to be able to accept that sometimes what I say to him will not be what he wants to hear, as in the case of the girlfriend. If he can't cope with that, then we can only be acquaintances, because that sems to be the only relationship he is really comfortable with.

Duckfetishgirl,

The way you describe yourself is the way my friend describes himself - he also thinks he is strange, weird or mad.

Actually, today I discovered some very interesting information which I think may explain a lot. It seems that both he and his older sister spent most of their childhoods being looked after by a Hispanic nanny rather than by their mother. (Dad was busy at work, mum was out doing her charity work) Furthermore, this lady only spoke Spanish, I think. I remember my friend talking about an old lady who he spent a lot of time with when he was a kid and how he missed her, and this must be the woman he meant. Furthermore, it seems that my friend didn't really speak until he was about four. If he injured himself he didn't cry. This behaviour prompted his mother to take him to a specialist. I don't know what the outcome of that was, but I suppose it would not have lead to a DX of AS at that age. Anyway, this information is very telling, I think. Also, it seems that the family moved around a lot with the father's job until my friend was in secondary school, and for a lot of that time they were in boarding schools. All in all, what with the distant parents, a nanny who only spoke Spanish and being sent away to boarding schools, no wonder my friend has not had any chance to try and sort out his issues.

Capricorn

01-12-2010 04:20 PM
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Pakrat



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RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

Capricorn Wrote:

Pakrat Wrote:
Yes, and I'm not sure if he should get married at all. I'm still trying to work out what I can do to stop it hurting that my friend doesn't seem to be talking to me at all now. It would be okay if I knew the reason, even if it was a stupid reason. But no apparent reason is baffling and more upsetting.

I think it could be a step forward that your friend could express his feelings, even if it was overkill. If he is anything like me, he bottled up resentments for years and they only started spilling out in the early to mid 20's. A big part of the reason I bottled things up was I didn't understand my emotions and tried to push them down out of sight. This only works for a certain amount of time though.

I was encouraged to repress a lot of feelings when I was a child and young woman, in the interests of being "nice" and "ladylike". It would have been okay if I was really that person but I think maybe sometimes I was neither male nor female thinking. Being ladylike meant to me being modest and polite but also able to be assertive when the situation called for it. I never learnt to be properly assertive though.


I feel for you, Pakrat, because I am in the same situation and it is always horrible when someone you care about disappears. This has happened to me before online and I have been very upset about it in the past. So now I make it a rule never to get emotionally attached to people I only know online (so now it is the people in my real life that are disappearing, like my friend. So actually you can't win either way).

Looking at his past mails I think now that he was trying to explain to me the depth of his building frustration but I just didn't appreciate how stressed he was getting. When he said he didn't like to get close to people, I thought I understood the level of his discomfort, but now I am guessing that I didn't. He was maybe really trying his best to tell me that I was getting too close and he couldn't handle it and then he finally had this big meltdown.

Oh, being "ladylike". That reminds me of my grandparents.

Capricorn

Yes, he could have been trying to push you away. I guess if it is possible, concentrate on other friends and interests and let him make the first move at any reconciliation. You didn't do anything wrong - it's just that he can't accept anything he might see as criticism (and this is very common in aspies - I'm much the same only I am more likely to get very indignant and want to tell the other person how cross I am - unless it's somebody I don't care about and then I will drop contact).

I didn't mean to get attached to my penpal. Some people warned me he could be up to no good - I should have listened. He's probably done this kind of thing lots of times before and wasn't a true friend. I feel I've done all I can to patch things up and now it's time to wash my hands of him.

01-12-2010 06:11 PM
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BeNdEr



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RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

kevout2 Wrote:
He's probably deluding himself into thinking that his girlfriend is his best friend and will always stand by him, honor him and support him.  He probably has self-doubt about how he's treated her just because so many (NT) people always say he's "bad".  He's probably trying to correct his Aspie-like, eccentric behavioral traits thinking such is linked to bad character.  But it won't work.  He can be the most honest, obedient and faithful husband in the world and it just won't work for a wife who expects and demands NT behaviors.  Loyalty and even daily habitual expressions of affections (like goodbye kisses, etc.) will be futile in context of making the marriage last.


I find that to be a bit offense...I'm sure he can have other friends instead of just his girlfriend.  He may have a closer connection to his girlfriend but I'm sure he has other friends as well.  And a marriage doesn't depend on kisses and hugs its also about the personality and how well you fit with the other person.  Being in a relationship is hard because you have your good and bad moments its very similar to a friendship (minus the romantic part of course).  Not matter what it is...you have to work at it!

01-12-2010 10:30 PM
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Pakrat



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RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

This girlfriend doesn't seem like a suitable match for him as she is too needy and attention seeking. He might just have to find it out for himself if he won't listen to advice from somebody older and wiser. I don't suppose too many of us like advice that doesn't agree with what we want to hear. As far as I can see, Capricorn has done more giving than taking and hard as it is, leave him to his own devices until he is ready to talk to her again. He at least has said he will do it at some later time, even if he hasn't specified exactly when.

01-13-2010 02:35 AM
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kevout2



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RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

BeNdEr Wrote:

kevout2 Wrote:
He's probably deluding himself into thinking that his girlfriend is his best friend and will always stand by him, honor him and support him.  He probably has self-doubt about how he's treated her just because so many (NT) people always say he's "bad".  He's probably trying to correct his Aspie-like, eccentric behavioral traits thinking such is linked to bad character.  But it won't work.  He can be the most honest, obedient and faithful husband in the world and it just won't work for a wife who expects and demands NT behaviors.  Loyalty and even daily habitual expressions of affections (like goodbye kisses, etc.) will be futile in context of making the marriage last.


I find that to be a bit offense...I'm sure he can have other friends instead of just his girlfriend.  He may have a closer connection to his girlfriend but I'm sure he has other friends as well.  And a marriage doesn't depend on kisses and hugs its also about the personality and how well you fit with the other person.  Being in a relationship is hard because you have your good and bad moments its very similar to a friendship (minus the romantic part of course).  Not matter what it is...you have to work at it!


I think my post was grossly misunderstood.  (Another personal "Aspie moment" for me?).  Well, I feel bad if you took offense to whatever I posted because that was not my intent.

What I was trying to say is that this young man probably considers his girlfriend to be Number 1 over everybody else in his circle.  I doubt he has a wide sphere of friends.  From what I gather, he can't even lean on his parents for moral support.  To put it another way, he's probably going to yield to whatever his girlfriend says (assuming he considers her Number 1 in his life) before he yields to whatever others (other friends with good, honest intentions say).  He's (likely) grappliing with an inner conflict over her versus all his other friends.

I do think with this girl, he's trying to be somebody he's not.  He is probably like that in just about all other situations as well.  (I'm under the impression that he's in denial about having Asperger Syndrome and has been raised to beleive hes Aspie traits are unacceptable; thus living in denial).  In the context of relationships and marriage, sooner or later, he will let his guard down.  If he is indeed putting up a facade to maintain this girl's affections, etc., the relationship just won't work out.

I hope I made my point clear and I apologize if anything may have been misunderstood in a negative way.

01-13-2010 02:50 AM
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Capricorn



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RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

Quote:
Yes, he could have been trying to push you away. I guess if it is possible, concentrate on other friends and interests and let him make the first move at any reconciliation. You didn't do anything wrong - it's just that he can't accept anything he might see as criticism (and this is very common in aspies - I'm much the same only I am more likely to get very indignant and want to tell the other person how cross I am - unless it's somebody I don't care about and then I will drop contact).

I didn't mean to get attached to my penpal. Some people warned me he could be up to no good - I should have listened. He's probably done this kind of thing lots of times before and wasn't a true friend. I feel I've done all I can to patch things up and now it's time to wash my hands of him.


Hi Pakrat Smile

I have had to concentrate on other things, because the stress was just driving me nuts. The criticism thing - well that is really hard to deal with, because I am not going to lie to him about what I am thinking. On the one hand he has these high moral standards about telling the truth, but on the other hand, if I tell him the truth about how I feel and he doesn't like it, he goes into a rage. So what am I supposed to do? It's like I have to tell the truth, but that truth has to always be something that he wants to hear.

As for your friend, perhaps they were right that he was up to no good, because the things he asked you to do, like be a guarantor to him and send him an ipod, they sound quite dodgy to me. I think your feeling that he isn't a true friend are probably spot on and it is a good decision to wash your hands of him. You can get a much better friend than that - one who doesn't try to take advantage of you and who treats you well.

But, I just had a total epiphany regarding my friend and why he has run away from this problem we have had. It is really simple and blindingly obvious - in the past, whenever he had a disagreement with anyone it was usually ME who sorted it out for him, so now that it is me that he is in conflict with, there is NO ONE to sort it out! It is that simple. I was his peace- maker and problem solver, because he has never been able to sort his problems out for himself. For example, when he had trouble with his college professor last year, he sent the prof's angry email to me, I explained to him why the prof was angry and I wrote a reply for him to sort the problem out. I did the same in countless different situations. His suggestions on how to solve problems were "sleep" or "don't think about it". I don't know why I have been expecting him to be able to resolve this issue - it should have been obvious from the start that he would not have the first clue about how to sort the situation out. No wonder he has disappeared. If he wants to be friends again at all, he is probably counting on keeping away until I have "forgotten" about it and is hoping that he can just start the relationship up again as if nothing has happened.

Capricorn

01-18-2010 04:12 PM
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kevout2



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RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

Capricorn Wrote:

Quote:
Yes, he could have been trying to push you away. I guess if it is possible, concentrate on other friends and interests and let him make the first move at any reconciliation. You didn't do anything wrong - it's just that he can't accept anything he might see as criticism (and this is very common in aspies - I'm much the same only I am more likely to get very indignant and want to tell the other person how cross I am - unless it's somebody I don't care about and then I will drop contact).

I didn't mean to get attached to my penpal. Some people warned me he could be up to no good - I should have listened. He's probably done this kind of thing lots of times before and wasn't a true friend. I feel I've done all I can to patch things up and now it's time to wash my hands of him.


Hi Pakrat Smile

I have had to concentrate on other things, because the stress was just driving me nuts. The criticism thing - well that is really hard to deal with, because I am not going to lie to him about what I am thinking. On the one hand he has these high moral standards about telling the truth, but on the other hand, if I tell him the truth about how I feel and he doesn't like it, he goes into a rage. So what am I supposed to do? It's like I have to tell the truth, but that truth has to always be something that he wants to hear.

As for your friend, perhaps they were right that he was up to no good, because the things he asked you to do, like be a guarantor to him and send him an ipod, they sound quite dodgy to me. I think your feeling that he isn't a true friend are probably spot on and it is a good decision to wash your hands of him. You can get a much better friend than that - one who doesn't try to take advantage of you and who treats you well.

But, I just had a total epiphany regarding my friend and why he has run away from this problem we have had. It is really simple and blindingly obvious - in the past, whenever he had a disagreement with anyone it was usually ME who sorted it out for him, so now that it is me that he is in conflict with, there is NO ONE to sort it out! It is that simple. I was his peace- maker and problem solver, because he has never been able to sort his problems out for himself. For example, when he had trouble with his college professor last year, he sent the prof's angry email to me, I explained to him why the prof was angry and I wrote a reply for him to sort the problem out. I did the same in countless different situations. His suggestions on how to solve problems were "sleep" or "don't think about it". I don't know why I have been expecting him to be able to resolve this issue - it should have been obvious from the start that he would not have the first clue about how to sort the situation out. No wonder he has disappeared. If he wants to be friends again at all, he is probably counting on keeping away until I have "forgotten" about it and is hoping that he can just start the relationship up again as if nothing has happened.

Capricorn


This response to a long two-way conversation (Capricorn and Pakrat) sure has alot of relevence to what transpired in my life.

Capricorn's friend has a hard time coping with the fact that he's "different".  He's in denial about alot of things; probably including the education/career path he chose and its implications for him.  He's also in denial about the "true colors" of the girl he's with.  The optimistic side of him is telling him that if he marries her, things will be "peaches and cream" because she really does love him.

Well, when I was 25 going on 26, I was just plain fed up with the regular dating scene.  I was 1) simply not meeting anybody, 2) in those rare incidents I did meet somebody I liked, I was not her type, or 3) I didn't like her and then was made to feel guilty for not persuing her further.  At the time, I spent alot of time at the gym trying to be in top shape and "look sexy".  It may have been good for my physical health but that was about it.  (I hate the public gym environment and to be honest; I've got better things to do with my time.)  In those days, "working out" was like a second job for me.

For quite some time, I thought it would be nice if I somehow met a nice Filipina.  I always thought (most) Filipina girls were pretty.  On a positive note, I'd heard that Filipina wives were generally loyal to their husband, had good, conservative "family" values", and were very family oriented.  On an opposing negative note, I heard anecdotal stories of Filipinas being avaricious gold-diggers who ruined the men (non-Filipino men) they married.

(These were the days before mass internet use.)  Well, through and advertisement in a dating magazine (now out of print for 10 years), I sent away to a particular pen-pal introduction firm for meeting Asian women (mostly Filipinas).  I got the firm's brochures, and "the rest was history".  This was a business owned by an American husband and Filipina wife.  I was really impressed by what I saw and read; and I practically "melted" at the idea that someday I could be blissfully married afterall.  I thought the green-card sharks and golddiggers were the exceptions and just perpetuated a negative stereotype for all Filipinas.  This time in my live was transitional in the way I looked at the world.  Suddenly I felt more optimistic and upbeat.  At last I'd found a pathway to find a life partner to make my life complete.  Both of my younger brothers were also getting married that year (each is still married).  No longer did I feel bad (in addition to the insatiable desire to have a love in my life) that my younger brothers were getting married and I couldn't even find a girlfriend.

This was the dawn of a "new Kevin".  A more positive-thinking, upbeat, optimistic and happy Kevin.  At last I thought I'd found a pathway that would lead to a niche in a special woman's heart.  I started wrinting letters and taking pictures to send to new female pen-pals in the Philippines.  This exchange was quite an experience in and of itself.  I was amazed at how many of these girls would say "God Bless You" or make references to God and Jesus governing their behaviors in life in the letters.  Quite the contrary to the greediness, spoiledness, and lack of moral accountability in contemporary American woman; so I thought.  (It bothered me that women of my generation had multiple sex partners and often cheated on their primary partners.)  I've been raised to beleive that God and Jesus are most important in governing my life and marriage (if married.) (Nowadays my faith is something that is "on the skids" due to my life's experiences; my father keeps nudging me that I must get into a spiritual program.)  Well, I thought that the partner for me; and endorable by God up above; was not in America, but somewhere in the Philippines.

I "learned" alot about Filipino culture throgh exchanging letters, photos and other momentos.  I say " 'learned' " versus "learned" because I thought I learned about Filipino culture this way (and through my five week stay in the Philippines) but I really didn't.  I was naive.  How I am regarded in Filipino social settings in America is diametrically different from my perceptions of the culture that led to me marrying my first wife.

I was proud of what I was doing.  Proud in the sense of feeling good about it.  I tried to share this joy with family, coworkers and friends.  Then the black clouds would arise.  But they were very much real.  I was warned time and time again that "all of these women" just wanted to get to the United States, dump me afterwards, and take all the money they possibly could from me.  I also got warnings that I'd be used as a stage for them to send alot of money to their families (by fleecing me) and to bring the whole family to the United States.  My close friend's wife maintained that I was making a VERY BIG mistake by getting involved with a Filipina.  Her family said the same thing.  It used to hurt me greatly with her discouraging words.  I thought (was hoping) it was only personal prejudice on her part.

My relationship with my friend's wife has been strained at times because of my personal ideals and preferences.  She and her husband stood by me through my first divorce.  After it was over and I met another Filipina (regular introduction channel) she was mad at me.  I felt stunned and hurt.  I was reaching for joy by wanting to meet a new woman and I thought I'd just share my smidgeon of my pretty rare optimism.  When that relationship ultimately failed, it reinforced the notion that I was the fool.  From that point onward I was very coy about my persuits.  She didn't even know I was involved with whom became my second wife until much, much later.

My friend's wife was accepting and friendly to my second wife.  I know she had to repress alot of her personal emotions.  Then eventually she learned about the mega-*** I was living through.  Well, because of what has transpired, I feel like the hopeless, idiotic fool afterall (persuing my ideals).  After all these years, my friend's wife was right.  I didn't like what she had to say.  But she was right.  Certain women have a sense of intuition (a mystery to me) and she is one of them.

Pakrat, DO NOT send this guy money or anything like that.  Most of all, DO NOT SPONSOR HIM TO AUSTRALIA.  I have the high gut feeling this man is a "love-relationship predator".  If Australia's immigration sponsorship laws are anything like that of the United States and Canada, you will be burnt extremely badly if you were to petition this guy and he's up to no good.

There are so many immigration-love horror stories that happen in the United States.  It is said that 30% to 70% of immigration cases that involve marriage are fraudulent marriages.  There are currently some grass roots movements to protect the rights of sponsoring American citizens in the event of a wayward, rogue sponsoree.  All too often the American sponsor gets burned big time.  I don't just mean in terms of heartbreak or even relatively simple financial loss.  I'm talking about serving a prison sentence for a crime not committed, a ruined personal reputation, and a ruined business or career.

There is a domestic violence clause in U.S. immigration laws to protect the sponsorees who ARE abused by the sponsor.  (It has been established that in a number of cases, sponsoring citizen spouses have been abusive and heve used the threat of deportation as one form of abuse.)  If the alien spouse can demonstrate the she (or he in rare cases) has been abused at the hands of the American spouse, she doesn't have to stay with him in order to get her green card.  Such evidence could consist of police reports, medical records, and social worker reports.

Well since the passage of this law, there has been a proliferation of false abuse claims; some extreme.  By extreme, I'm talking about they guy who thinks he's happily married and comes home from work one day to find the police at his house.  He gets arrested because his wife alleges he beat her up that morning.  (And she may even show "evidence" such as bruises by 1)throwing herself down the stairs or 2) incidental blood clot marks if she's taking birth control pills; a more painless method.

01-18-2010 06:30 PM
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Pakrat



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RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

Well, the guy who wanted me to send an Ipod has dropped out of sight. I hedged about sending the Ipod because I said it was better to wait for the January sales but as far as I'm concerned, if he looks down his nose at me because I'm a bit overweight, he's not worth worrying about.

This is actually a more common problem with men in particular. I am maybe 10-12 kg overweight, have quite nice skin and very few wrinkles on my face. Some women and a few men have told me it doesn't matter how pretty a woman's face is, how nice their personality or how well they dress - if they are even 5 kg overweight, a whole lot of guys will just wipe them without even bothering to get to know them.

This guy laid on the charm but wanted me to go to all the trouble of doing things for him so I suspect he has done this kind of thing before. I don't really know what to make of his younger brother - he is cheeky but at least keeps in more regular contact and says I am not fat.

I think it was very unfair to be told I was fat because the medication I take makes my metabolism slower. I wouldn't make personal comments like that to my penfriends. I told them I thought they had nice brushy black beards and moustaches and lovely brown eyes.

01-18-2010 07:11 PM
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kevout2



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RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

Pakrat Wrote:
Well, the guy who wanted me to send an Ipod has dropped out of sight. I hedged about sending the Ipod because I said it was better to wait for the January sales but as far as I'm concerned, if he looks down his nose at me because I'm a bit overweight, he's not worth worrying about.

This is actually a more common problem with men in particular. I am maybe 10-12 kg overweight, have quite nice skin and very few wrinkles on my face. Some women and a few men have told me it doesn't matter how pretty a woman's face is, how nice their personality or how well they dress - if they are even 5 kg overweight, a whole lot of guys will just wipe them without even bothering to get to know them.

This guy laid on the charm but wanted me to go to all the trouble of doing things for him so I suspect he has done this kind of thing before. I don't really know what to make of his younger brother - he is cheeky but at least keeps in more regular contact and says I am not fat.

I think it was very unfair to be told I was fat because the medication I take makes my metabolism slower. I wouldn't make personal comments like that to my penfriends. I told them I thought they had nice brushy black beards and moustaches and lovely brown eyes.


From my perspective, I could describe this guy as a "male Filipina".  I suppose what I quoted can go into the categories of the likes of "male lesbians" (referring to heterosexual males who aren't macho in the conventional sense.)  I think the term "oxymoron" describes these ironic word combinations.  In your case, the guy you became attached to is behaving like a typical modern Filipina; asking for money, gifts, etc.  Nowadays western men who seek love with a Filipina are always weary of the golddiggers, and voice frustrations of getting attached to somebody and then being asked to send money for a "family emergency".  The truth is that in the Philippines, the internet cafes are full of young women (and sometimes men disguising themselves as women) fishing on-line for suckers abroad.  They and their families live very well when the hook the hearts of one or more men abroad.

I'd say the easiest way to a man's heart is through his pecker.  This is how a man is the most vulnerable.  Filipinas and other women predisposed to swindle a man know that and thats how they get ahead.  I would say the equivalent principle applies to women.  The bottom line is that being without partner, and longing for a lover (partner you're attracted to and can share mutual joy with) makes one vulnerable to the sweet-heart predators.  Some will say very flattering things to you (and make you feel its coming from their hearts) just to obtain something you have that they want (money, posessions) or get a favor out of you (i.e. send a younger brother to college in their native country; or just collect the money and make you think its being used for a worthy purpose).

About being fat, I myself am overweight.  I'm trying to lose some but it will always be a perpetual struggle unless a ground-breaking fat burning pill becomes available on the market.

Remember one thing:  beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.  In looking for love the challenge is not only to find somebody who you're beautiful to and is beautiful to you; it also needs to be somebody who means what they express as opposed to flattery.  Yes some men are very picky about weight.  So be it.  It's a fact of life just as much (for me) women are generally turned off by Aspie traits.  What bothers me is when they have cruel attitudes about women who are overweight.

I'm sure there is a good man for you somewhere.  It's just a challenge to find him.  I see fat women with men in public places who seem like happy, loving couples.

Weight can also be a problem for women (meaning they hate fate men.)  With my first wife (who was a somewhat on the heavy side when we started corresponding), she lost alot of weight after she came to the United States.  At the same time, I gained some weight.  She threatened to leave me if I didn't lose weight and she wasn't kidding.  She was very image concious and, in the end, thought she was God's gift to men because of her exotic Filipina looks.  I'd have been much happier if she was faithful to me, her heart was with me, and even if she had gained considerable weight over the years as well.  She'd still be beautiful in my eyes.

Sometimes I think a couples' individual metabolisms differ and that can and does cause marital problems.  One partner might like to cook and eat a certain kind of food.  That partner might have a fast metabolism.  The other partner gets fat having a steady diet of that food.  Then there seems to be problems.  A fat related marital problem could be an actual problem or a symptom of other more important marital problems.

As of now, I'm seeking somebody in my weight league as one of my criterion.  I'm of the beleif that women generally dislike fat men as well as men generally dislike fat women.  I think (just my opinion) that it's easier for a fat woman to find love than it is for a fat man to find love.  To me personally, there are some fat women I can find attractive and this is the group I'd likely persue.  I have a partial membership on a plus-size dating site.  So far I can only look at personals but can't respond.  I have to get a full; paid membership in order to do that.  I wonder if it's even worth it.  With so many of these women; I do not even seem to remotely "fit the bill".  Yet somehow I've got to reach out to meet somebody; a personal persuit of happiness.

01-18-2010 08:14 PM
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Pakrat



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Post: #74
RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

Perhaps much of the trouble lies with big city attitudes. A country girl might well be better for you (as long as she isn't one of those ones who hates country life and is ambitious to "get on in life" and have lots of possessions and prestige). Good country girls usually have a better sense of humour, more practicality and less fussiness about peripherals such as weight.

I suppose I am just as guilty as many others of looking at some really fat people and thinking it looks bad (but I don't mean just a little overweight - more like say a woman who is regular sized up top and massive around the bottom - if the weight were more in proportion it would look better). But I still don't see what is so bad with being large or XL or even 2XL.

If somebody told me they would leave because I was fat, I'd be so tempted to say "don't let the screen door hit you on the way out". The Kaz Cooke book "Real Beauty" explodes the fat myth and many others. I loved the bit about the snappy comebacks to people who make comments such as "you're too big", to which you might say "too big for you or too big for me" or "if I need your permission to make me feel cr@ppy, I will ask you".

01-19-2010 07:41 AM
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Capricorn



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Post: #75
RE: How to cope with being given the cold shoulder

Hello all.

I've been away for a while fighting a horrible cold. Hope all of you are doing better than me at avoiding winter illnesses!

Anyway, I thought I'd give you an update on the situation with my friend. I have not heard from him. My only contact point is through Facebook, where I can see what he has benn doing or not doing. The weeks after our fall-out the interesting thing was that he spent a lot of time posting long happy birthday messages to every friend who had a birthday. Now, you may remember that when we fell out he cancelled his plan to take me out for my birthday and I was very upset about it. I was wondering if there was a connection with that and his sudden seeming obsession with posting birthday messages.

Suddenly he stopped posting anything on Facebook, not even a status update, which he has always posted before. This has been the case for about 3 weeks now. He logs on sometimes, but he doesn't post anything or comment on anything - he seems to be just lurking. This may be because he is job hunting. I don't know.

I was telling one of my friends at work about my situation, because it turns out that her young cousin has Aspergers and my colleague has spent a lot of time mentoring her cousin (who is only sixteen at the moment), so she has had quite a bit of advice for me. One thing she said was that she thought maybe my friend was waiting for me to get in touch with him again and I should try a calm inbox to his facebook page and see if he would reply. Well, it had been 5 weeks since I had last messaged him, so I sent a short inbox that just said I hoped he was well and that I had respected his wishes not to contact him for 5 weeks and so now I was writing to see if he felt any differently. I wished him well in his job hunting and gave him a very brief outline of my news and signed it in a friendly way. Nothing heavy, just a very general mail.

So I sent it a week ago and I know he has been online at least twice since then and so will have at least seen that I have inboxed him, though he may not have read it. There has been no reply, not yet anyway, so I am assuming my workmate was wrong in her suggestion that my friend was waiting for me to contact him. Whatever the case, I feel okay about it, because I feel that on my side at least things are back to normal and I can send him calm inboxes like before. Hopefully he will read the inbox and see that I am in a good state of mind towards him. If he doesn't reply, I'll wait another month and then send another matter-of-fact update. It's his choice if he replies or not.

I have been thinking about a lot of what he told me about his other friendships in the past and I am thinking now that the incident with me is probably pretty typical of how all of his close relationships have ended. The pattern seems to be that as soon as his relationships hit any kind of trouble however small, he gets stressed about it, bottles it up inside him and it all snowballs until he can't take it anymore, explodes then shuts the other person out of his life. I can think of at least four other people he has probably been in the same situation with and sadly those four relationships are completely dead and have been over for several years now.

Other people often comment on two things about him - that he is very very passive in relationships and that he always avoids or runs away from any kind of trouble. I am wondering about these two traits and if they are typical of someone with AS or if they are just him and his personality. If they are AS traits, are they likely to change as he gets older or is he likely to always be the same?

What it means on a relationship level is that once any conflict arises you can pretty much consider the relationship to be as good as dead, because he will either disappear or make no effort at all to try and patch the relationship up.

Well, that's my update. Sorry it isn't more positive news.

All the best,

Capricorn

02-16-2010 06:28 PM
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