To me a real friend isn't someone hanging around you for what you can do for them. Like transport, cash help etc and if you need a little help you find them very scarce ie not willing to return the favour.

In other words mutual support for each other assist each other regardless. I suppose its a bit like a marriage, but without the sex.

I have had only 1 close friend in life, he has passed. Those friends are not friends you can look for using a plan or diagram. Those friends just happen. And rarely.

I frequently miss the point, so I may like be guilty again.  

I would assume that a social skills program would be useful for those of us who need to "pass" in order to make our way in an NTWorld for jobs, school, etc.

Friends are the result of a special meeting of minds and hearts, and are rare even in NTWorld.  Even people who are wildly popular have only a handful of friends - if they are lucky.  At least I have heard many NTs state this as though they were speaking for the masses.  

Did the good doctor clarify the purpose?

I am very much in agreement.

I don't need social skills at home, just when out and about in the wider commiunity to help make NT's feel comfortable with me. Its too much work keeping up the pretense for much more than a normal working day and far too draining.

Bingo, micgrace!

"Pretense"

Ours lives would not be authentic if we tried to be what we are not (shades of "Imatation of Life"); denied who we are.

To me, this sounds really good. I don't think it's entirely about 'passing for NT'. It's more like 'getting along with NTs'. Might even be good for NTs too, for example 'good sportsmanship'.

As far as I know, aspies have a a problem with picking up the 'social rules' like NTs can. I know a few aspies who's complaint is that they like people and are extroverts, but just don't understand half of the communication and how to deal with those people. Going back to just starting highschool, there was a subject called 'studies of society and environment' (SOSE). Someone said about me 'Damn, I thought it was a class that teaches people social skills for people like *nervous_neuron*'. Thinking about it, I wished that there was a class that did teach social skills.

Looking at the list of things:

Knowing these things won't make you an NT, but they will help you deal with them at school, work etc. We all can't be hermits and rely on other people to get ahead (or stop them from bringing you down). We don't have to be super social people, but it's nice to avoid conflict, like knowing when someone is bullying you by pretending to be your friend. Or even learning about other people so you can understand their reactions. For example the stim rocking back and forth means that when an NT does it, they are are experiencing extreme psychological distress (I think). And then extreme psychological distress has to be proportional to a stressor. Someone touching you does not count as an extreme stressor to NTs and then think someone is 'weird' for 'having a nervous breakdown for being touched on the arm'.

And whether you take the course or the things learnt in it is optional, though if this becomes a wide spread thing, it may be a social pressure, eg 'You were taught how to behave correctly, don't make excuses for yourself!'. But it's tot like an actual biomedical cure for autism. Your personality and who you are won't be changed. It looks like it's not about 'being indistinguishable for peers'. The way aspies learn social skills will still be different from NTs and aspies will not turn into NTs.

Problem is we have to put up with crook **** from a lot of NT's which they get away with. But try the same thing as them everyone looks at you if you came from Mars.

There is obviously an internal NT grapevine that says "look out for this person he/she is weird" and we are not privelged to be part of it or know what is thought of us.

One can imitate NT style culture to work get a job, go to school etc but will never be part of it no matter how one goes about it. So we really do need our own unique culture where all can be themselves for once. Just one problem, we are a small minority. And medicos etc think aspies is something to be cured.

I have read that people with autism (asperger’s, NLD, etc) miss 30% – 60% of nonverbal communication.  That’s a bit like reading a book in which 30% - 60% of each page is cut out.  I think this piece has to do with asynchrony.  It is hard to listen and talk, it is hard to add watching in to the mix.

I agree totally with this.  It should help lubricate our interactions with NTs, but not change who we are.  

One of the big things with finding this DX is that I really did learn a lot about myself.  I think this would also be a plus.

I do not think it is ethical for professionals to say or imply that we are unacceptable human beings unless we become like them.

The world does not realize what would be lost if they “cured” us!

I really meant to say:

but not "fix" who we are.

Is there no edit button or is it just that I am not seeing it?

Amen, Micgrace!

I would like to offer my opinion on this matter. This intervention study is designed to improve social functioning in each individuals environment. It is not to make anyone be more like an NT, but rather be able to achieve what one would like to achieve (i.e., employment, family, partnership, friendship, dating, etc.) It is impossible to avoid NT world as someone mentioned previously, thus you have to find the best way to function in such context, for your benefit, not for the benefit of the professionals or NTs. I am not talking about cure, but rather having skills to deal with daily social demands, in order to avoid social isolation or rejection. As i mentioned on a different post, having social relationship does seem to prevent one from negative emotional distress which may lead to issues of depression, etc. Do not forget Nts are also on the spectrum of social functioning, from those who are social butterflies to those who maintain only a small close circle of social support.  I do feel that NT world needs to be more understanding and accepting, but process of environmental change may take decades, while individuals change can be much more rapid and thus provide greater life improvement (whatever this may mean to each individual.) It is important to maintain ones own culture or individuality, but that is not what these skills are all about.

I do disagree that you may never be a part of NT's world and be accepted. It is like learning a new culture after you move into a new country, when you understand it and act in a way that is acceptable by that particular culture, you will be accepted, not by all but by those that matter. Being an NT i don't care if someone does not include me into their social circle, because I do not have to fit in with everyone, just those who accept me.

There are numerous qualities that are considered to be essential for a defintion of a true friendship, and you state some of them. Things Understanding, Reciprocity, Loyalty, Acceptance, etc. From what we have seen in adolescents and young adults with ASD, these are rarely present in already low number of reported friendships. It breaks my heart to talk to a teen who says yeah i have a friend who we have lunch with everyday in school. When we go to observe this social interaction you see that they are not talking to each other, sometimes the so called friend is actually socializing with others at the table while our teen is totally not included in this interaction. That is why we feel it is important to help change some of that, including misconceptions that some people have about, not just quantity of relationships, but also their quality.

I think we are all basically agreeing that we would benefit from greasing our social skills in order to make our way in NTWorld.  We all seem to agree that this would benefit your target group and maybe even older and younger groups.  

Where I worry I think I am hearing a breach of understanding is that (to build on your analogy of “learning a new culture after you move into a new country”) we are dealing with The Ugly American.  

While you have noticed kids being left out at lunch time, you don’t quite fathom how many time we bump up against negative judgments from NTWorld.  I hear (and I am inclined to misinterpret so please forgive me if that is the case) that us taking social classes is not enough, because we will always “speak with an accent” and carry some of our “native culture” with us.  We don’t think this is a bad idea, and you likely don’t either, but mainstream culture does.  

Here in Arizona, integrating students with autism is not done very often.  The way I have seen it done is for a paraeducator to escort a child to the back of the classroom where the child (from the wierdo classroom) sits guarded for the allotted time then is escorted out.  The main stream culture learns all the wrong things about this child, and the child reaps little benefit.

In Vermont, the trend is for classroom teachers to be prepared for all kinds of kids by becoming proficient in “Responsive Classroom” techniques that help children to accept each other.  They take professional development on “Differentiated Instruction” so they can teach all kinds of minds.  The mainstream culture learns to accept neurodiversity.

If your classes targeted people in mainstream culture, too, then they could change our world.  Until then, our little spit and polished social skills will not fix anything - we would just pass a little better (and so the benefit of your classes), but still not be accepted.  

The “cure” for autism is to teach the mainstream culture to celebrate diversity.

Would you consider this for Phase II of your classes?  How could we help you?

PS

Alex,

The mountain (you) has come to Mohammed (us) for feedback about your project.  I truly admire you for this.  You are correct in pointing out that all people are on the same multifaceted spectrum, but you have visited our end and that must mean you see us as fellow human beings in this complex world - not lab rats.  I hope we have been helpful and perhaps continue to provide you with input.  Thank you and best wishes!!

Smiles,
Janet

I would love to start working on improving awareness in our society about Autism. I am a part of the The Help Group, an organization who at least in California is fighting to do just that, starting from adressing the needs of this population though State Senate. I believe that my clinical and research skills are better suited to address individual needs rather than social beliefs in general. Other people who are much more affluent and versatile in public and social policies should take charge of that. We all have our limitations, and at this point in my career, such a step would not benefit many individuals. Nevertheless, once we can show that together with individual change and the change from society, people on the higher end of the spectrum can function just as well if not better than most NTs. I think it is a a dual process of change and individual change must start first, as it is something that an individual is really in control of. However, self-advocacy needs to be on the forefront for all those who seek social change. Unfortunately, you cant teach a class to a whole society What can be taught is socially acceptable strategies for advocating for self to individuals, which will yield greater results. Everyone who want acceptance needs to show the progress they made to meet NTs half way it the art of compromise, in my opinion to request or demand a full acceptance without individual change will not likely lead to true societal shift.