Now, Skublue1, let's be civil.  I think that this doctor is willing to subject himself to serious questions (unlike some others who have hung around here).  Also, UCLA is a well recognized institution.  Let's not lump him with some of the other characters with Psychology degrees who have hung around.  I think that this man may be a true specialist who respects our community.  I also sense a strong compassion in him, which is often lacking in others of his profession.

Doctor, as an aside, I sense that you and I may be co-religionists.  If so, then you know from your religious training that our lives have an objective direction, that it is not simply about individually willed choices like the Greco-Roman world believes, but choices based on Divinely Revealed philosophy.  Obviously, this is not a Torah forum, so it is best not to go there at this time.  But, my point in bringing this up is to point out that any kind of training process (which is what you are proposing, a training process) must have a guiding philosophy.  Even if you come from a secular standpoint, which is a standpoint limited to space-time-matter-energy, you still have enough insight to see that a training program must have a guiding philosophy or it is unfocused and dissipates.

If I were ever to join your 30-something group at some point in the future, I would want to understand what philosophy you hold.  I know of a few names that have informed psychology; Freud, Jung, Erich Fromm, Victor Frankl, Carl Rogers, Konrad Lorenz---among others.  But, my knowledge in this field is limited.  Therefore, I would want to understand what your school of thought is.  Are you Freudian?  Do you follow the medical model?  Behaviorism?  Logos therapy?  Where do you come from---and WHY.

I would also want to know what your understanding is of the Good Life.  It is important that I have an understanding of your personal concept of the life that is truly worth living.  I think that this is a good question if we are to trust you as our heroic Captain for even a few weeks.



Captain Kirk had the "dating" thing down. However, he also knew that he had much to learn about his broader cosmic mission.
I think that a person who would be a healer should let us know something more, even if just on a general level.

Thank you for being so willing to engage us.

Actually I was being civil and merely opinionated, it sounds no different than other granted studies on the subject. Already stated my opinion and would not have revisited the thread , if you had not said that.

Skyblue1,

I would love to know of any studies that looked at the treatment effectiveness for social skills training. There is a lot of studies on empathy training and cognition around social domains, which showed limited applicability and low generalization in most cases. I am aware of one pilot-study which was very small, that attempted to use a socio-cognitive approach with adults with ASD, which had a very limited success. Please link me to the titles of papers or name of researchers you might be thinking off and I will access them online and read their work, as well as get back to you all with my thoughts on that.

Not into debating this . I just stated my opinion. And had already moved on. Thanks for your responces to my queries and concerns!

Ditto for me. Laterz!

[/quote]


Doctor, as an aside, I sense that you and I may be co-religionists.  If so, then you know from your religious training that our lives have an objective direction, that it is not simply about individually willed choices like the Greco-Roman world believes, but choices based on Divinely Revealed philosophy.  Obviously, this is not a Torah forum, so it is best not to go there at this time.  But, my point in bringing this up is to point out that any kind of training process (which is what you are proposing, a training process) must have a guiding philosophy.  Even if you come from a secular standpoint, which is a standpoint limited to space-time-matter-energy, you still have enough insight to see that a training program must have a guiding philosophy or it is unfocused and dissipates.

If I were ever to join your 30-something group at some point in the future, I would want to understand what philosophy you hold.  I know of a few names that have informed psychology; Freud, Jung, Erich Fromm, Victor Frankl, Carl Rogers, Konrad Lorenz---among others.  But, my knowledge in this field is limited.  Therefore, I would want to understand what your school of thought is.  Are you Freudian?  Do you follow the medical model?  Behaviorism?  Logos therapy?  Where do you come from---and WHY.

I would also want to know what your understanding is of the Good Life.  It is important that I have an understanding of your personal concept of the life that is truly worth living.  I think that this is a good question if we are to trust you as our heroic Captain for even a few weeks.


[/quote]

Well my personal preference is for Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment (CBT) approach using combination of Becks and as well as Ellis's approaches. I feel more abstract therapeutic approaches had limited utility for those on the spectrum. Even the cognitive aspect of CBT maybe less useful for this population, in my opinion, and as some research suggests, for the same reasons.

I cant answer your question about what it means to other to live a Good Life, each person has to make that individual decision. Remember, that for any disorder or a problem to be clinically diagnosed, it must show to cause problems in individuals life's functioning.

To elaborate further, these are not process groups where individuals will be involved on resolving particular issues, rather we will focus on building new skill sets for these young adults. My approach in individual therapy would deffer greatly, due to a huge difference in therapeutic goals and processes between group treatments and individual therapies.

meh, would rather hear from Amanda  or Michelle Dawson (and I say those names with reverance)

Skyblue1,

I respect your choice, but since neither of those two have graced this particular thread, I would like to hear more from Dr. Gantman, who has.

Doctor,

Thank you again.  I appreciate your honest answers to my questions.  I would say that Behaviorism is not high on my list of philosophies I like or agree with.  Skinnerism is not high on my list of philosophies (although, to be honest, you never called yourself his disciple).  Perhaps you might want to distinguish between your philosophy and the more authoritarian approaches of some Benhaviorists.  You do, of course, disavow electro-shock I would hope?

I respect the fact that you do not want to comment on the Good Life.  However, you have to understand that, for me, this is a very important question.  I might still conceivably join your 30-something group, but I share a belief of traditional First Nations peoples that the healer must be someone who is rooted and centered in his or her own soul.  (As an aside, a discussion of Autistics and parallels with Native Americans might be most auspicious during this time that we celebrate the anniversary of the AIM movement, and also Leonard Peltier's recent Parole hearings).  To be frank, I have the sense that you *DO* have a philosophy of the Good Life but that you have a western/secular belief that it should be kept separate from your work.  I respect that reticence, but I think that a frank acknowledgement of what your philosophy is, even to yourself, would be helpful in your own walk.

In any case, I will ask you to comment on one more thread, if you please:

http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthre...?tid=16292

This thread discusses stimming.  In particular, it discusses my own stimming patterns.  I don't want to take you away from your work, but I respect your response on the other thread, posted on the thread (so that this one is not disrupted).  In fact, I would welcome it.  Please do not let the nay-saying get to you.  Our forum is very democratic and rough sometimes.  I have done my own share of jostling over my time here.  We are all very individual and unique, colorful and opinionated.  If you stick around, you'll get used to it, and maybe even come to love it.

All the best.

Services for autism? I think you mean integration to the main, wider, NT community which we are forever cursed to be part of. Several aspies together think and speak in very different ways to the wider NT world. It is like being in China without being able to speak the language or understand their customs.

Sure you can teach "social skills" but all that allows is how to integrate ones self into the wider world which we are forever cursed to be part of with short sighted strategies such as "social integration" All that achieves is a way to appear "normal" to others rather than a "cure".

The best thing for someone who is an aspie (and I make that distinction quite deliberately, not someone who has aspies. It is forever a part of the person.) is to make workplace adjustments and social policies that reflect accurately on the needs and requirements of aspies which are very different to the majority of the population.

I'll state a few: (1) noise. The complete inability to screen out noises. This is a real problem in crowds, classrooms and other high intensity social settings. I was even thinking of doing a recording as to how everything sounds to me to prove a point to someone at one time. I can hear the whirr of the fans, the click of a/c motors, someones breathing, the traffic and the others students all at the same time. That is too much overload and will give me a meltdown.

It does, however, provide a benefit. If anything is about to go wrong I am the first to be aware of it, so, perhaps, that "problem" came about as a survival mechanism at one time. ie The aspie could hear the tiger before the rest of the group and was alive, while they became dinner.

(2) Another "problem" This is my habit and others to speak kind of backwards. ie say thre result without the process of getting there. This is a problem when sitting conventional tests. More than a few aspies have been accused of cheating even though they can give the answer without the working NT's require. I do the same thing, then I have to spend weeks documenting the answer when conducting chemistry research. It is a useful thing though.

(3) Social, the big one. Yes, trying to be social with NT's is like trying to fit a suare peg in a round hole, difficult. However, aspies if known to each other tend to get along rather excellent. Especially if the special interests co-incide.

(4) My big bug bear. Mind blanks. I know I know the answer but can't recall it at the time. That has caused me all sorts of embarassments throughout the years especially when talking in front of a research group. Luckily the know I have this problem. I am respected for the sheer speed I can come up with a solution to a problem however.

(5) Depression. This is another one. Exactly what is depression to an aspie is radically different to an NT. Most aspies seem to connect the inability to relate to depression, (I do) however that is not the same as an NT. As such none of the treatments for depression work on aspies. It is hard of course to find someone to relate to with us being 1 in 160 or so.

There are many differences almost like we are another species. Some are of the opinion this is another stage in evolution. WEvoltion being evolution, experiments and never gets it quite right. I still wouldn't sway my aspies for anything. It is me. it provides me with advantages the NT's do not share. I will never really be able to relate to NT's. However I am very experienced at pretending to. This was achieved by many self development courses, seminars and book reading along with continual practice. it is not natural however. Its just to keep the NT's happy while disguising my true self.

Conclusion: Research is needed on "depression" in aspies. I don't have a word for it yet, but it is quite different. Very.

you can skip the holier than thou attitude, you are welcome to the floor

I need another keyboard. The substitute one I have at the moment makes it rather difficult to type.

"you can skip the holier than thou attitude, you are welcome to the floor"

Or the window?

lol.....

It does pay to keep the academics in line. Not that I can speak.