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do you find babies cute
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Petemick



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Post: #61
RE: do you find babies cute

Marcia Wrote:

Petemick Wrote:
Are harlequin babies "made in God's image" or do they represent some corruption/distortion of His image?

Not everything is as God intended it to be. I can't accept that God intended for harlequin babies to exist, or anything so explicitly horrible.


If we (believers) don't accept all people as being made in the image of God, however "imperfect" they are or are deemed to be, then where is the line drawn between "human" and "sub-human" and who draws the line?


It's less a decision and more a visceral response, this knowing the difference between "human" and "sub-human."


"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

-Albert Einstein
08-27-2009 10:58 PM
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Marcia



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Post: #62
RE: do you find babies cute

Petemick Wrote:

Marcia Wrote:

Petemick Wrote:
Are harlequin babies "made in God's image" or do they represent some corruption/distortion of His image?

Not everything is as God intended it to be. I can't accept that God intended for harlequin babies to exist, or anything so explicitly horrible.


If we (believers) don't accept all people as being made in the image of God, however "imperfect" they are or are deemed to be, then where is the line drawn between "human" and "sub-human" and who draws the line?


It's less a decision and more a visceral response, this knowing the difference between "human" and "sub-human."


I can understand the visceral response to the harlequin baby, its appearance and its suffering.  I still consider it to be human.  Problem is that there were, and are, people who have a visceral response to those who are not "perfect" by virtue of their skin colour or disability and who would consider those people to be "sub-human" for those reasons.

In fact, the recent uproar in the US about Scotland's decision to release Megrahi on compassionate grounds would seem to indicate that many consider him to be "sub-human" and therefore not deserving of mercy or even life because of the actions for which he was convicted.


We are all made in God's image! Celebrate our diversity of gifts!

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08-27-2009 11:15 PM
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zoey



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Post: #63
RE: do you find babies cute

Petemick Wrote:
Are harlequin babies "made in God's image" or do they represent some corruption/distortion of His image?

Not everything is as God intended it to be. I can't accept that God intended for harlequin babies to exist, or anything so explicitly horrible.


I find it disturbing that you think that the visual formation of a creature would make it not have a right to exist or affect any of it's rights.  The fact that it disgusts you is also  very saddening to me.  I could love a harlequin baby as much as any other baby.  What does its looks have to do with its inherent right to be loved?  Isn't this the same as racism, to say that if someone is not made the way you and others you know are that they are disgusting as human beings?  We are genetically like that, different from others, and we are working to be recognized as viable even with our differences.  Scary how you put things here.  I am hoping that I am misunderstanding you.

08-27-2009 11:27 PM
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Petemick



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Post: #64
RE: do you find babies cute

zoey Wrote:

Petemick Wrote:
Are harlequin babies "made in God's image" or do they represent some corruption/distortion of His image?

Not everything is as God intended it to be. I can't accept that God intended for harlequin babies to exist, or anything so explicitly horrible.


I find it disturbing that you think that the visual formation of a creature would make it not have a right to exist or affect any of it's rights.  The fact that it disgusts you is also  very saddening to me.  I could love a harlequin baby as much as any other baby.  What does its looks have to do with its inherent right to be loved?  Isn't this the same as racism, to say that if someone is not made the way you and others you know are that they are disgusting as human beings?  We are genetically like that, different from others, and we are working to be recognized as viable even with our differences.  Scary how you put things here.  I am hoping that I am misunderstanding you.


This is not the same as racism. Differing racial characteristics (black, white, Asian, etc.) do not constitiute sub-humanness.

But harlequin babies ... they're diseased. They're wrong. That's where the visceral horror comes from, from the comprehension of this profound wrongness. But they're helpless and blameless victims of circumstance. They can't be blamed for their own grave misfortune. It turns my stomach even now to imagine the reactions of those in the delivery room ...


"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

-Albert Einstein
08-28-2009 11:34 AM
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Shrek



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Post: #65
RE: do you find babies cute

I think babies are loud, and I can't stand them because I am sensitive to high pitched noise


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08-28-2009 04:16 PM
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zoey



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Post: #66
RE: do you find babies cute

Petemick Wrote:

zoey Wrote:

Petemick Wrote:
Are harlequin babies "made in God's image" or do they represent some corruption/distortion of His image?

Not everything is as God intended it to be. I can't accept that God intended for harlequin babies to exist, or anything so explicitly horrible.


I find it disturbing that you think that the visual formation of a creature would make it not have a right to exist or affect any of it's rights.  The fact that it disgusts you is also  very saddening to me.  I could love a harlequin baby as much as any other baby.  What does its looks have to do with its inherent right to be loved?  Isn't this the same as racism, to say that if someone is not made the way you and others you know are that they are disgusting as human beings?  We are genetically like that, different from others, and we are working to be recognized as viable even with our differences.  Scary how you put things here.  I am hoping that I am misunderstanding you.


This is not the same as racism. Differing racial characteristics (black, white, Asian, etc.) do not constitiute sub-humanness.

But harlequin babies ... they're diseased. They're wrong. That's where the visceral horror comes from, from the comprehension of this profound wrongness. But they're helpless and blameless victims of circumstance. They can't be blamed for their own grave misfortune. It turns my stomach even now to imagine the reactions of those in the delivery room ...

  Being diseased is neither wrong nor sub-human.  This is the first time I have never heard of this kind of thinking from someone who generally professes to be a "nice person".  I don't see where this fits into the ideals of decent treatment of other humans.

08-28-2009 04:42 PM
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Petemick



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Post: #67
RE: do you find babies cute

zoey Wrote:

Petemick Wrote:

zoey Wrote:

Petemick Wrote:
Are harlequin babies "made in God's image" or do they represent some corruption/distortion of His image?

Not everything is as God intended it to be. I can't accept that God intended for harlequin babies to exist, or anything so explicitly horrible.


I find it disturbing that you think that the visual formation of a creature would make it not have a right to exist or affect any of it's rights.  The fact that it disgusts you is also  very saddening to me.  I could love a harlequin baby as much as any other baby.  What does its looks have to do with its inherent right to be loved?  Isn't this the same as racism, to say that if someone is not made the way you and others you know are that they are disgusting as human beings?  We are genetically like that, different from others, and we are working to be recognized as viable even with our differences.  Scary how you put things here.  I am hoping that I am misunderstanding you.


This is not the same as racism. Differing racial characteristics (black, white, Asian, etc.) do not constitiute sub-humanness.

But harlequin babies ... they're diseased. They're wrong. That's where the visceral horror comes from, from the comprehension of this profound wrongness. But they're helpless and blameless victims of circumstance. They can't be blamed for their own grave misfortune. It turns my stomach even now to imagine the reactions of those in the delivery room ...

  Being diseased is neither wrong nor sub-human.  This is the first time I have never heard of this kind of thinking from someone who generally professes to be a "nice person".  I don't see where this fits into the ideals of decent treatment of other humans.


Being diseased is neither wrong nor sub-human.

That depends on how disease is viewed by society.

John Merrick had Proteus Syndrome his whole life but he was born human. And he was normal at birth. John Merrick's life is the perfect illustration of our reaction to physical ugliness. From the man who treated him like an animal at the circus sideshow to the other man, Dr. Treves, who found him a home, friends, and made his life comfortable. But ultimately Treves couldn't do anything to cure John of his condition.

I admit I'm not brave enough to care for a harlequin baby. I would not be able to touch it, look at it, be in the same room with it. I would not be able to listen to its cries. I'm too sensitive. The thought of such helpless suffering, such diease, in a helpless newborn human being ... it would drive me away. Not out of hatred or contempt. Out of fear. Out emotional and spiritual torment. It would hurt me too badly to see a such badly deformed infant. I hope you understand.


"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

-Albert Einstein
08-28-2009 05:38 PM
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Duckfetishgirl



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Post: #68
RE: do you find babies cute

zoey Wrote:
FROM WIKIPEDIA DEFINITION OF CUTENESS

"Overview
Cuteness is usually characterized by (though not limited to) some combination of infant-like physical traits, especially small body size with a disproportionately large head, large eyes, a pleasantly fair, though not necessarily small nose, dimples, and round and softer body features. Infantile personality traits, such as playfulness, fragility, helplessness, curiosity, innocence, affectionate behavior and a need to be nurtured are also generally considered cute.

Konrad Lorenz argued in 1949 that infantile features triggered nurturing responses in adults and that this was an evolutionary adaptation which helped ensure that adults cared for their children, ultimately securing the survival of the species. As evidence, Lorenz noted that humans react more positively to animals that resemble infants—with big eyes, big heads, shortened noses, etc.—than to animals that do not.

That is, humans prefer animals which exhibit pedomorphosis. Pedomorphosis is the retention of child-like characteristics—such as big heads or large eyes—into adulthood. Thus, pedomorphosis and cuteness may explain the popularity of Giant Pandas and Koalas. The widely perceived cuteness of domesticated animals, such as dogs and cats, may be due to the fact that humans selectively breed their pets for infant-like characteristics, including non-aggressive behavior and child-like appearance.

Some later scientific studies have provided further evidence for Lorenz's theory. For example, it has been shown that human adults react positively to infants who are stereotypically cute. Studies have also shown that responses to cuteness—and to facial attractiveness generally—seem to be similar across and within cultures.[1]

Additionally, the phenomenon is not restricted to humans. The young of many mammal and bird species share a similar set of typical physical proportions, beyond absolute body size, that distinguish them from adults of their own species. "Cute" features were also described in the recent finding of a baby Triceratops skull, suggesting that cuteness is an ancient and useful survival technique.[2]"
-----------------------------------------------------------------

  I seem to be missing the ability to find human babies cute.  What's weird is that I find baby animals, even reptiles and bugs, to be extremely cute, and I always want to touch or hold them and even talk babytalk, totally opposite of my usual personality with any human.  So far I've asked one other aspie who is the same as me, animals yes, people, no.  Just wondering if anyone has this too, since it appears to be instinct related.


Animal babies are cuter. Human babies are cute andlook like littlebaldtoothless old men . *gurgle*


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08-29-2009 02:38 AM
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Duckfetishgirl



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Post: #69
RE: do you find babies cute

OOpsie. My spacebar is busted.


I have a gift for enraging people, but if I ever bore you it will be with a knife.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qmud3AsmMM

If I offended you, please let me know via pm. I tend to do it without realizing it. I can be clueless as to how my humor comes across. Please be nice about it.

08-29-2009 02:38 AM
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zoey



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Post: #70
RE: do you find babies cute

Petemick Wrote:

zoey Wrote:

Petemick Wrote:

zoey Wrote:

Petemick Wrote:
Are harlequin babies "made in God's image" or do they represent some corruption/distortion of His image?

Not everything is as God intended it to be. I can't accept that God intended for harlequin babies to exist, or anything so explicitly horrible.


I find it disturbing that you think that the visual formation of a creature would make it not have a right to exist or affect any of it's rights.  The fact that it disgusts you is also  very saddening to me.  I could love a harlequin baby as much as any other baby.  What does its looks have to do with its inherent right to be loved?  Isn't this the same as racism, to say that if someone is not made the way you and others you know are that they are disgusting as human beings?  We are genetically like that, different from others, and we are working to be recognized as viable even with our differences.  Scary how you put things here.  I am hoping that I am misunderstanding you.


This is not the same as racism. Differing racial characteristics (black, white, Asian, etc.) do not constitiute sub-humanness.

But harlequin babies ... they're diseased. They're wrong. That's where the visceral horror comes from, from the comprehension of this profound wrongness. But they're helpless and blameless victims of circumstance. They can't be blamed for their own grave misfortune. It turns my stomach even now to imagine the reactions of those in the delivery room ...

  Being diseased is neither wrong nor sub-human.  This is the first time I have never heard of this kind of thinking from someone who generally professes to be a "nice person".  I don't see where this fits into the ideals of decent treatment of other humans.


Being diseased is neither wrong nor sub-human.

That depends on how disease is viewed by society.

John Merrick had Proteus Syndrome his whole life but he was born human. And he was normal at birth. John Merrick's life is the perfect illustration of our reaction to physical ugliness. From the man who treated him like an animal at the circus sideshow to the other man, Dr. Treves, who found him a home, friends, and made his life comfortable. But ultimately Treves couldn't do anything to cure John of his condition.

I admit I'm not brave enough to care for a harlequin baby. I would not be able to touch it, look at it, be in the same room with it. I would not be able to listen to its cries. I'm too sensitive. The thought of such helpless suffering, such diease, in a helpless newborn human being ... it would drive me away. Not out of hatred or contempt. Out of fear. Out emotional and spiritual torment. It would hurt me too badly to see a such badly deformed infant. I hope you understand.


Thanks for being so candid.  It saddens me so much, makes me want to go out and find those children who are rejected because of perceived ugliness and take them all in.  Really, really saddens me.  I didn't know people were so horrified by lack of visual conformity.  I knew there was always a scary moment when something you think will look a certain way is the opposite, but I thought a caring person would want to work through the scariness of non-conforming features or the scariness of sickness or pain and be able to accept all creatures.  

   I guess the truth is that visual conformity is the only thing that lets us be accepted, and our autistic differences are hated and disgust people.  I just didn't think that other autistic people would feel this way.  I honestly thought that people who believed in good would put forth the effort to work through these feelings.

08-29-2009 02:54 AM
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Petemick



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Post: #71
RE: do you find babies cute

zoey Wrote:

Petemick Wrote:

zoey Wrote:

Petemick Wrote:

zoey Wrote:

Petemick Wrote:
Are harlequin babies "made in God's image" or do they represent some corruption/distortion of His image?

Not everything is as God intended it to be. I can't accept that God intended for harlequin babies to exist, or anything so explicitly horrible.


I find it disturbing that you think that the visual formation of a creature would make it not have a right to exist or affect any of it's rights.  The fact that it disgusts you is also  very saddening to me.  I could love a harlequin baby as much as any other baby.  What does its looks have to do with its inherent right to be loved?  Isn't this the same as racism, to say that if someone is not made the way you and others you know are that they are disgusting as human beings?  We are genetically like that, different from others, and we are working to be recognized as viable even with our differences.  Scary how you put things here.  I am hoping that I am misunderstanding you.


This is not the same as racism. Differing racial characteristics (black, white, Asian, etc.) do not constitiute sub-humanness.

But harlequin babies ... they're diseased. They're wrong. That's where the visceral horror comes from, from the comprehension of this profound wrongness. But they're helpless and blameless victims of circumstance. They can't be blamed for their own grave misfortune. It turns my stomach even now to imagine the reactions of those in the delivery room ...

  Being diseased is neither wrong nor sub-human.  This is the first time I have never heard of this kind of thinking from someone who generally professes to be a "nice person".  I don't see where this fits into the ideals of decent treatment of other humans.


Being diseased is neither wrong nor sub-human.

That depends on how disease is viewed by society.

John Merrick had Proteus Syndrome his whole life but he was born human. And he was normal at birth. John Merrick's life is the perfect illustration of our reaction to physical ugliness. From the man who treated him like an animal at the circus sideshow to the other man, Dr. Treves, who found him a home, friends, and made his life comfortable. But ultimately Treves couldn't do anything to cure John of his condition.

I admit I'm not brave enough to care for a harlequin baby. I would not be able to touch it, look at it, be in the same room with it. I would not be able to listen to its cries. I'm too sensitive. The thought of such helpless suffering, such diease, in a helpless newborn human being ... it would drive me away. Not out of hatred or contempt. Out of fear. Out emotional and spiritual torment. It would hurt me too badly to see a such badly deformed infant. I hope you understand.


Thanks for being so candid.  It saddens me so much, makes me want to go out and find those children who are rejected because of perceived ugliness and take them all in.  Really, really saddens me.  I didn't know people were so horrified by lack of visual conformity.  I knew there was always a scary moment when something you think will look a certain way is the opposite, but I thought a caring person would want to work through the scariness of non-conforming features or the scariness of sickness or pain and be able to accept all creatures.  

   I guess the truth is that visual conformity is the only thing that lets us be accepted, and our autistic differences are hated and disgust people.  I just didn't think that other autistic people would feel this way.  I honestly thought that people who believed in good would put forth the effort to work through these feelings.


Quote:
I guess the truth is that visual conformity is the only thing that lets us be accepted, and our autistic differences are hated and disgust people.


I wouldn't go that far. What does visual conformity matter to blind people?

Hmm. Reminds me of a scene from Mary Shelley's novel
Frankenstein where the Creature wanders into that hovel in the woods where the poor family lives. Inside, an old blind man is playhing the flute. He hears the Creature approach, welcomes him in, and exchanges a few kind words with him. Presumably, the only reason the old man does not flee in horror is because he can't see the Creature's ugliness. Instead, the old blind man through his "blindness" can perceive the Creature's loneliness and need for human warmth. The old man is able to "see" the Creature's essential humanity.

What a great story that was ... Smile


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08-29-2009 02:01 PM
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Petemick



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Post: #72
RE: do you find babies cute

skyblue1  Wrote:

zoey Wrote:
Actually I was just wondering if people had the automatic "awww" response that is supposed to be instinctual to people when they see a baby human or animal.  I thought it odd that I have it for animals but not people.  Thought it might be due to a lack of instinct wiring.

dont know why awww...is an automatic responce,I am guessing it is just people being nice.


We're wired to go "Awww..." It's part of the reason humans are able to be fruitful and multiply. It's more than people being nice.


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08-29-2009 02:37 PM
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Pakrat



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Post: #73
RE: do you find babies cute

Marcia Wrote:
^^  Yes, someone once posted a link to information and a picture of one here as it was relevant to a topic under discussion at the time.  

I wasn't concerned about the baby's appearance though.  It was the agonisingly painful nature of its short life and the extreme distress to the parents which I found upsetting.

Is there any treatment or cure for harlequin babies? I thought if a lot of skin cream were applied to them that eventually their sores would heal. Then again, if the breaks in their skin also affected them internally, it would be so much more difficult. Could they be given pain killers eg. morphine so they wouldn't suffer so much? Surely something can be done for them.

08-30-2009 05:06 PM
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Petemick



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Post: #74
RE: do you find babies cute

Pakrat Wrote:

Marcia Wrote:
^^  Yes, someone once posted a link to information and a picture of one here as it was relevant to a topic under discussion at the time.  

I wasn't concerned about the baby's appearance though.  It was the agonisingly painful nature of its short life and the extreme distress to the parents which I found upsetting.

Is there any treatment or cure for harlequin babies? I thought if a lot of skin cream were applied to them that eventually their sores would heal. Then again, if the breaks in their skin also affected them internally, it would be so much more difficult. Could they be given pain killers eg. morphine so they wouldn't suffer so much? Surely something can be done for them.


You can't give morphine to a baby.


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-Albert Einstein
08-30-2009 07:50 PM
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CelticRose



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Post: #75
RE: do you find babies cute

Pakrat Wrote:

Marcia Wrote:
^^  Yes, someone once posted a link to information and a picture of one here as it was relevant to a topic under discussion at the time.  

I wasn't concerned about the baby's appearance though.  It was the agonisingly painful nature of its short life and the extreme distress to the parents which I found upsetting.

Is there any treatment or cure for harlequin babies? I thought if a lot of skin cream were applied to them that eventually their sores would heal. Then again, if the breaks in their skin also affected them internally, it would be so much more difficult. Could they be given pain killers eg. morphine so they wouldn't suffer so much? Surely something can be done for them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlequin_type_ichthyosis


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08-31-2009 12:43 AM
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