Sorry, I was responding to Pika there.  Typing too slow tonight!

Sorry I am sure no one was bashing you personally. If you felt I did,I apologize.sincerely

yeah....no.

I suggest you look up Tak Bai, and what happen in Sri Lanka immediately after the passing of a law in 1956 proclaiming Sinhalese the principle language...

I didn't choose to become a Christian.  I wasn't looking for God, and I hadn't been in church for years other than for weddings and funerals, and occasionally with my mother so I could argue with her about how daft it all was.

I didn't chose it, God chose me.  I know it sounds crazy, and for a while I couldn't even talk about it without thinking how corny it seemed.

It's not really a decision about signing up for something like deciding which is the best car to buy, or reaching a conclusion on which political party you will vote for.  It's not about looking for proof, or testing validity.

It's hard to explain - it's something that you experience.  If you haven't experienced it, then you won't understand.  And I'm not saying that to be patronising, I'm saying that because I've been on both sides of the fence, as it were.

and here we run into a primary problem - an opinion is oft formed on whom is shouting loudest.

and as I said earlier (perhaps not in this thread..) it's the culture that forms around a religion that is often the problem. religion basically boils down to one thing;

however, it can become such a definitive point of peoples lives that it can be used to control them utterly. the term "sheeple" comes to mind. the kind of person who aggressively denies Evolution, believes that Abstinence only education is the way to go, and who has members excommunicated for giving a 13yo rape victim an abortion...

I view the evangelical right here in the US as christian fundamentalists. no different than Islamist fundamentalists. They insist their viewpoint is the only one that counts. You will either go to hell or you should be put to death if you do not comply with how they believe. Very sad/bad way to be for both religions.

It's ok.

I know that no one was bashing me personally, and that the comments made here weren't intended to cause personal hurt or offence.  But I felt that I had to say something, and it doesn't just affect me or the other Christians and people of faith here, but it is relevant, I feel, for the people who are making these comments to reflect on them, their impact and also what it says about them.

Pika is right about those who are shouting the loudest, and often they are the ones who are promoting the very conservative, repressive agenda.  And that doesn't just apply to religion, it applies to other areas of public and private life as well.

I would generally be considered "liberal" theologically, and I witnessed an interesting secular example of the liberal/conservative divide when I went to a recording of a BBC radio debate on assisted suicide a couple of years ago.  Those who were "liberal" on the issue took the view that (given certain conditions being met) wanted help in dying should be able to access that help.  Those who didn't wouldn't be forced.  It was a matter of individual choice and personal autonomy.  Those who were "conservative" on the matter quite simply said that they didn't agree with it, they wouldn't choose it and therefore no one should be able to chose it.

The same dynamic seems to apply to the church.  Liberals say well, here's what I think, what do you think about it?  Conservatives say, well, this is what I think, and it's what I say you must think too.

How did you get sucked into religion Marcia? You were brought up an Athiest?

For me it was the opposite, I grew up in a Christian home and became Agnostic not Athiest (like you).

I could never imagine it happening the other way around.

I was brought up in a church going family, but no one was particularly religious.  I decided at the age of about 21 that it was all nonsense, and stopped going to church altogether.  My family weren't particularly regular church attenders anyway, and I no longer lived at home then.

I laughed at the image of me getting sucked into religion - like hoovered up!

How it happened?  Long story short.  Went back to work job-share after maternity leave, long-standing communication problems/bullying by bosses got even more intense and I didn't have a job-share partner.  Things got to the point that I physically couldn't speak, so I just went home in the middle of the afternoon after a very surreal meeting with my boss and a personnel officer.  Went to my doctor, explained the situation and he signed me off sick with "acute anxiety".  He said there was nothing medically wrong with me, it was the people I was dealing with who were causing the problem.  In all I was off work for 6 weeks.

My doctor told me "just to be".  Very hard thing to do, but I managed to let go off all the stress and worry and frustration and anger.  One day I was taking my son in his pushchair to the local park.  It was a warm and sunny day in February ( in Scotland that alone makes it memorable) and I was "being".  I was enjoying the feel of the sun, looking at the branches of the trees, noticing snowdrops, bird singing yada yada.  Very simple, uncomplicated pleasures.  Enjoying being alive and being part of the world.

And I suddenly felt this feeling, this compulsion to go to church.  I stopped walking, and I remember exactly where I was when this happened.  The Roman Catholic church was within sight, but there wasn't a service on, the Church of Scotland was behind me, and I knew it wasn't open as it was a Tuesday.  Went to the park, went to church on Sunday, and it developed from there.

Marcia, why can't you just say "I don't know if I believe" rather than lying to yourself telling yourself that you literally know that there really is a god. I personally believe that it's better to not believe in something merely because of the fact that it will make you feel better.

I personally think that Atheism is just as foolish as Christianity in that both groups claim that they "know" when they have no concrete evidence of anything. I'm Agnostic just say "I don't know", but of course have strong doubts about the existence of the Christian god.

The only natural religious belief is Agnosticism. It's to have a open-mind towards all religions, and being an observer.

I'll admit though, like most Agnostic people I often lose my temper when I hear foolish things certain religious groups promote.

I don't say that because it isn't true.  It may be for you, but not for me.  

I don't understand what you mean by your second sentence there.

I didn't chose to be a Christian to make me feel better.  I was quite happy as an atheist.  I wasn't looking for God, for a faith, or a group to belong to.  It just happened and it made sense to me.

Being a Christian isn't a matter of simply following rules or complying with what you are told to do or think.  It shapes who you are, your understanding of your self and others, your relationships with others and with God.  And it should be challenging, it shouldn't lead to complacency and self-satisfaction.  Faith can give people the strength and resources to do things they would have thought themselves incapable of doing.

I am open to new ideas, but atheism seems the most likely as far as religion goes. If new evidence were to come up that made another choice seem more likely, my mind would change. I think that most atheists would do the same. Evolution, however, is observable, and therefore is extremely likely to be true.

do you know what real nosticism is?

hmmmmm,something to google if you dont