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Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
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Marcia
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
I should add that I think that I had found ASPIA's website two years earlier, there's a possiblity that my husband and I might still be together. Only a possiblity, because if he still wasn't able to recognise the impact of behaviours then he would be less likely to change.
But ASPIA also say that if the other spouse can understand Asperger's and take account of that in understanding the AS partner's behaviour, then the whole dynamic of the relationship can change for the positive.
We are all made in God's image! Celebrate our diversity of gifts!
"Aspies For Freedom chooses to oppose all forms of prejudice and bigotry."
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| 04-23-2009 08:34 PM |
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Shrek
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
I have become a lot less angry as a person since becoming a Christian. I guess I used to think circa age 19 or 20 girls rejecting us was as much a hostile act as the guys doing mischief. Now I feel more sorry for the lost confused ladies.
I don't really know what is going on.
Am I becoming more depressed because anger is being buried inward?
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| 04-23-2009 09:14 PM |
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Flardox
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
I just signed the petition.
I honestly can't belive that Tony Attwood has just stabbed us all in the back with this crap.
Ugh honestly what a douchebag.
I am the one hiding under your bed, teeth ground sharp and eyes glowing red...
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| 04-23-2009 09:28 PM |
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nothinggoespast
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
I wasn't going to contribute to this thread, but I feel I have to. It probably won't help and may make me feel worse.
I ask that you bear with me on this one.
When this thread was posted I checked out the ASPIA website as I hadn't heard of that organisation and didn't know what they did. What I found there shocked me, but not in the way it has shocked the others who have responded. I was shocked, and it has been almost constantly on mind ever since, because what was described there was essentially my own marriage to my son's father.
Now, my husband has a number of issues relating to his childhood, when he was neglected and abused, but I do also believe that he is on the Spectrum. Last night I checked out the criteria for an adult diagnosis and I believe that my husband fits those criteria. His own sister has said to me that she thinks he is on the Spectrum. His sister also thinks that I may be on the Spectrum, or at least very close to being so.
This post has the potential to be extremely long and rambling, so I will try to be as succinct as possible.
As I read it ASPIA primarily offers support to those whose partner has recently been recognised as being on the Spectrum, and the support offered has as one of its key objective, the safeguarding and saving of those marriages. It may be that the person suspected of being AS will deny that it is a possibility, and the partner may find it difficult even to broach the subject. I fall most definately into the latter group.
Four months after I actually left my husband to live elsewhere, I sat with him, over several evenings and talked about the ways in which I could see that I had contributed to the breakdown of the marriage. I have never pretended I am perfect and I can understand that I am not always an easy person to live with. I have my own routines and ways of doing things, I can lose track of time when I'm absorbed in one of my interests, I can be excessively pedantic and picky about what are essentially pretty minor things. I didn't take as much of an interest as I could have done in my husband's various interests/obsessions. So that's me and my faults.
My husband.
One of the biggest and most negative aspects of his character is his anger. There is an active thread here just now about how people express their anger. My husband's anger was explosive, unpredictable, seemingly irrational, and frankly, frightening to me. On one occasion he broke a glass panel in a door, a wardrobe and the drawer in the hall stand because he pulled it out and threw it at a wall. I was terrified. It is all very well expressing anger in such a physical way, but it is extremely frightening to those around you.
There's another thread here about attachment to inanimate objects. Years after my husband broke the drawer of the hall stand he was talking about that piece of furniture, how much he liked it, that it was one of the first things we bought together and we would always have it. After a while I ventured to say that I wasn't so keen on it - after the day the drawer got broken. He was silent for a while and I could see that he was getting upset, stressed and then angry. He was angry with me because I had "spoiled his enjoyment of that piece of furniture". He didn't show any appreciation of how I felt. His relationship with that inanimate object was more important than his relationship with me.
His relationship with our son is generally ok - for short periods of time, and as long as it doesn't interfere with his interests. Given the choice between his son's birthday party or going to watch his team play football, my husband wouldn't hesitate to choose the football. It's one of his obsessions. The last two parties I've arranged for my son's birthday had to be in the morning, and his father spent the rest of the day at the football and the evening in the pub - because that's his routine. That's what he does.
He is rigid and inflexible. After we'd agreed to separate he decided to go to London for a week and asked if I would give him a lift for an early morning flight. I agreed. His flight was on the Monday after the attempted terrorist attack on Glasgow Airport. He was flying from another airport, less than an hour's drive away. Our son had been out of sorts all weekend and on the Sunday afternoon I suggested that I could organise a taxi for him instead of driving him myself. That way I didn't need to get an already cranky child out of bed at 4am to drive to an airport on a high security alert, surrounded by cops with guns, and a terminal building which I was unlikely to be able to get the car anywhere near. My husband was completely enraged by this suggestion. I had said that I would take him, so I was to take him. The fact that he would get to the airport in time for his flight whether he went by taxi or was driven by me was irrelevant to him. He had an idea in his head, and didn't want to deviate from it. I booked the taxi, got money out of my own bank account for the fare, provided a note of the taxi details etc - and he was still furious with me. So angry!
Sorry, I was trying to keep this short. I'm trying to give examples of how some aspie traits, such as rigid and unflexible thinking, obsessions, difficulty grading and expressing emotional responses, and well, a preference for inanimate objects over people can play out in real life.
I know that my husband barely accepts our son's diagnosis. There is no way he would even contemplate that he might be on the Spectrum.
Everyone here knows themselves very well, and can see the traits they have, and how they differ to those around them to whatever degree. My husband thinks all of the above behaviours are reasonable. And from what I know of his own family, these behaviours would've passed for "normal" or pretty close to it. It's not impossible that one or both of his parents were on the Spectrum. He has a nephew who almost certainly is.
If you and your partner know you are on the Spectrum you have that as a starting point, for mutual understanding and consideration. If someone doesn't know, or denies it, then it's very different.
I would add as well, that I was my husband's special interest when he was courting me. He sent me flowers, bought me "pay day presents" (neither of which I was really interested in, tbh), he was generous, kind and considerate. He is not an ogre - he has many great qualities, and I know that he didn't set out to hurt me. But he did hurt me.
So, I don't think ASPIA is a "hate group". I think it is attempting to meet a need which exists, and to do that in a way which keeps couples together if possible, or at least to assist understanding when it isn't. The fact that many Aspies have happy marriages doesn't mean that there aren't some for whom it doesn't work out.
I'm pretty much expecting to be shot down in flames for this post, but this is my perspective. It wasn't an easy post to write, not least because my hands are shaking and I keep having to correct typos.
Ah, and another thing. Many of you have expressed disappointment in Tony Attwood. If someone you respect does something which you find puzzling or somehow out of character, then maybe, just maybe, you should step back a bit and wonder why it is that they are doing that thing.
Now I'm going to post reply and be damned!
I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Can you explain that again?
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| 04-23-2009 10:33 PM |
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madmick
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
I think she is trying to say that if you have and anger problem, treat your kid badly and love socializing at football games and the pub then you pass the requirements for AS
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| 04-23-2009 11:17 PM |
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Marcia
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
^^ No, that is not what I am saying.
We are all made in God's image! Celebrate our diversity of gifts!
"Aspies For Freedom chooses to oppose all forms of prejudice and bigotry."
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| 04-23-2009 11:51 PM |
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nothinggoespast
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
Really? It almost sounds like it. Thank you for clearing things up madmick!
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| 04-23-2009 11:53 PM |
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Marcia
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
On the rare occasions that I tried to say to my husband that his behaviours were having a negative impact on me, and our family life, I was dismissed in the same flippant and dismissive manner as that shown by the two previous posters.
Feel free to make of that what you will.
We are all made in God's image! Celebrate our diversity of gifts!
"Aspies For Freedom chooses to oppose all forms of prejudice and bigotry."
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| 04-24-2009 12:11 AM |
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Shrek
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
Me guessing your ex-husband Marcia did not study sociology/psychology or believe in it.
In 2002-2003 I read Barbara deAngelis What Women Want Men to Know (a men's guide to NT women)
In 2006 I read Willard Haley's His Needs Her Needs, it basically suggested that although Christians should not divorce, they frequently do when his five most frequently unmet needs or her five most frequently unmet needs are not met.
What I remember:
His needs: 1. companionship/recreation, attractive wife
Her needs: 1. to be provided for, 2. help with house/kids, 3. attention
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| 04-24-2009 01:48 AM |
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Shrek
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
Stories
Attractive wife: Heavy woman wanted to be stay at home wife because it was easier than having a job. (!!!) She lost a lot of weight, got a guy to fall for her, they married. She regained the weight. He felt cheated. Harley suggested a separation (!!!!) until she could lose the weight. (!!!!!) She grumbled but she did.
Man the provider: Woman dumps musician husband when she meets eligible guy with steady job and superior income.
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| 04-24-2009 01:53 AM |
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Shrek
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
Harley suggests a superior strategy to the traditional singles agency is teaching how to meet the typical unmet needs of a future spouse, and insists upon its results.
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| 04-24-2009 01:54 AM |
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Bonnie Ventura
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
Marcia, without being at all flippant, it is a fact that there are millions of men in the world who behave like your ex. Most of them are not autistic. If ASPIA and the other groups were calling themselves support groups for spouses of temperamental and inflexible people, I don't think anyone here would have an objection. It's the stereotyping of autistics as generally unsuitable for family life that is the problem.
"...to know when the great wheel gives to a touch; to know and act."
Ursula K. LeGuin, The Left Hand of Darkness
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| 04-24-2009 02:00 AM |
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Saft
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
Marcia: As usual your posts are insightful. I thought that you did a very well with your explanation regarding your relationship with your estranged husband and I understood more clearly the actual thread topic, for I think I misunderstood the aims etc (so thank you for that).
However, if it is a hate group then as my reaction was when I saw and signed the petition I am very disappointed and angry with Tony Attwood.
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| 04-24-2009 02:04 AM |
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Saft
Unregistered
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
I've had a look at the main page website (again), I don't have time to check out the whole website as I will have to go to bed soon but most of the information on there (as in the link that Shrek supplied that I didn't see) is quite hateful and reproachful regarding Aspies but since I only saw previously the purpose page: http://www.aspia.org.au/purpose.html
I am not too sure of it, as I mentioned in my previous post I think I may have misunderstood the aims but I am not sure....
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| 04-24-2009 02:25 AM |
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Marcia
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RE: Tony Attwood and Isabelle Hénault, ASPIA Hate Group
Marcia, without being at all flippant, it is a fact that there are millions of men in the world who behave like your ex. Most of them are not autistic. If ASPIA and the other groups were calling themselves support groups for spouses of temperamental and inflexible people, I don't think anyone here would have an objection. It's the stereotyping of autistics as generally unsuitable for family life that is the problem.
Thank you for your measured response. I do understand the perspective taken by others, and although I do believe that my husband is on the Spectrum there are definately other factors which influence his behaviour.
However, I do think that there is a place for such groups, provided that they provide accurate and unbiased information, which generally speaking ASPIA seem to do. I am referring only to ASPIA, not to any other group. It is generally understood that good communication is key to a good marriage. As people with Asperger's have some communication difficulties, and may communicate in different ways I do think that such groups can provide help in assisting people understand each others communications styles and needs.
My son is diagnosed as AS, and my relationship and interaction with him as changed as I have more clearly understood his own particular communication difficulties. He has a Speech and Language Therapist who is helping him with this pragmatic language skills, for example. On-line communities like AFF provide opportunities for parents to share ideas and experiences, and for adult Aspie to tell parents what their own childhood experiences were like. We learn from each other to a great degree.
Over the past year or so, I have been able to recognise a lot of autistic traits in myself, as well as in my husband. I can appreciate that a lot of my traits and behaviours were a source of annoyance and irritation to my husband, and now when I'm in his company I make a conscious effort to reign them in.
I do think that groups which can assist couple communicate more effectively and help them understand why one person is stressed or upset by the behaviours of the other can be very positive. Both partners can be stressed and upset - it doesn't just go one way. Parents are given help and guidance in supporting their AS child, why should adults not be given the same help and guidance in supporting an AS spouse?
I don't think that ASPIA is stereotyping autistics as being unsuitable for family life. On their website they are careful to point out that they are referring to "some" people, and I do believe that some autistics do have problems with relationships. The existence of marriage guidance organisations doesn't imply that all marriages are in trouble, but they do cater for those that are. And on the subject of marriage guidance, I don't think those organisations would be as effective for couples in which one or both are autistic, as an organisation which understands the particular issues surrounding autism.
We are all made in God's image! Celebrate our diversity of gifts!
"Aspies For Freedom chooses to oppose all forms of prejudice and bigotry."
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| 04-24-2009 02:26 AM |
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