I hope they keep Gary out of the general prison population, minimum security, or something. Whether it is the UK or the US, I am sure there is buggery going in behind bars....

He claimed he was looking for (and found) UFO evidence. He also confessed to being the one to leave that message. If he was looking for clean energy (in which case NASA and the pentagon wouldn't be the right places to look), he'd probably be upfront about that too - it'd be just as controversial as the UFO stuff.
Court documents I read a while back named the individual files he deleted - various DLLs needed for windows to boot.

"He claimed he was looking for (and found) UFO evidence. He also confessed to being the one to leave that message. If he was looking for clean energy (in which case NASA and the pentagon wouldn't be the right places to look), he'd probably be upfront about that too - it'd be just as controversial as the UFO stuff.
Court documents I read a while back named the individual files he deleted - various DLLs needed for windows to boot."

Gareth,

My point is that I am skeptical, however, of believing any and all claims made against anyone by the Prosecution.  Under your law and ours, he is innocent until proven guilty.  We cannot take at face value any claim that is made.  When they claim that he left "Anti-American" messages, a vague term with no legal meaning, I would have to take them at face value.  Even according to their own claims, he never declared war against our country and its form of government.  I fear the loss of liberty from my own politicians, both Parties, than I do Gary.

I also have difficulty believing that one guy hacked for 5 to 7 years with impugnity.  Of course, "5 to 7 years" means that 9-11 had nothing to do with it, since he would have started in the 90's, but that is neither here nor there.  I doubt that he could have done all that was claimed.  If he got in, then perhaps there were people inside who let him in for some reason.  Has this possibility been considered? Gary is smart, but I doubt that he could go up against then mightiest military power on Earth with all of its prime number based encryptions.

In any case, Gary might very well hold political views with which I would disagree.  He might well hold views on the Middle East or Israel that would differ from mine.  They may even be extreme, for all I know.  Yet, he appears to be a left-leaning person and not an Islamicist.  In fact, I tend to think that Islamicists do not believe in alien life, or consider the whole thing to be of the Satan like many other religious groups would.  Gary, by contrast, seems to hold a pollyanna and very rosy view of UFO's as being benevolent.  I have never heard him declare any kind of violent intent toward either our government or the purported aliens.

And, what if clean energy is found?  This would free us from foreign oil, which would do a great deal for national security!  Now, to be clear, I do not advocate hacking, period.  I fear Russian identity thieves who seem to have the backing of Putin a lot more than this guy, but I oppose hacking in a blanket sense.  So, give Gary the business for the fact that he hacked, a short sentence perhaps, to be served in the UK (celebrity time in protective custody, with lots of exercise and fan mail).  Then, let him sell the movie rights and lets get on with important issues.  That would be entirely consistent with the American way in most cases...

By the way, I wish you a happy birthday.

I worry that he will receive a less than fair trial and punishment under the United States system of justice.

Being skeptical is good and to be encouraged, but he actually confessed with his own mouth. He does not deny his crimes, he denies the impact of them and he denies the justice of the sentence. I would never presume to say he's guilty until proven innocent, but as he has confessed then it is correct to call him guilty.

He did not declare war against the US, but he did attack it at a time when the nation needed to have its military as intact as possible.

I seriously doubt 9-11 had anything at all to do with Gary's motivations, he just had horrendously bad timing. I do believe he was honest in stating he was looking for UFOs.

Looking at the methods he used, it did not take him much skill. I question a great deal his judgement in the way he pulled off the attack as it was essentially a matter of time until he was caught. He was ultimately caught because someone sitting at one of the machines he broke into saw the mouse cursor moving by itself. Someone with more talent would know not to do that, and if graphical interface was needed then there are better alternatives to the commercial (and highly visible in add/remove programs) product he used.

Encryption is nothing to do with it, that merely secures the communications link - it doesn't protect against malicious data being sent over the link.

I don't think his political views are all that relevant, except to say that it is doubtful that he has any islamic sympathies. He seems unlikely to have an ulterior motive beyond what he has publically stated, though I would not dismiss this idea completely.

What we do know is that he does believe in alien life visiting earth and he does believe the US government is covering it up. That belief is perfectly fine for him to hold, but it does not excuse his actions.

He may not have declared a violent intent toward the government in the normal sense of the word, but he did declare malicious intent - "I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels".

If clean energy is found, that's great - but absolutely nothing at all to do with this case at all. In my view, as regards autism rights, he should be given precisely the same treatment an NT would receive. Only at the sentencing phase should there be possible considerations as to his safety in prison.

I do not believe that he should be exposed to physical danger against his person for his none-violent crimes, but I do believe that he deserves imprisonment. Undoubtedly he will be seen as a celebrity for many years to come, and personally I do find that sad.

Admittedly though, I do quite admire Kevin Mitnick for the way in which he has turned his life around and used his knowledge constructively. My admiration though does not mean I would have joined the "free mitnick" crowd back in the 80s if I had been of age back then - nor would I give the man a pat on the back for his crimes.

The same goes for Gary McKinnon - but less so, as to be honest I resent his using his diagnosis like he is, and I also resent the way in which he is being portrayed as some kind of oppressed genius.

For the record, I have done similar things, which while low level are just as illegal. I deeply regret doing them even where I strove not to cause direct harm. One thing I would never have dreamt of doing in my rebellious period is breaking into and then trashing any system on which lives could depend. The absolute worst I have ever done is to knock my high school's network temporarily offline, and I was justly punished for my stupidity. To break into a military system or even a hospital and disable it would have required no regard for human safety.

I can think of plenty of people who have done dumb things in their youth, some deeply criminal, and who have learnt from their mistakes. The ones I can now respect never crossed the boundary into risking actual danger to people's lives - that's a line that is inexcusable to cross. Curiosity and childish behaviour can be forgiven, endangering lives can't be.

Thanks

Gareth,

I acknowledge two points:

1) The Autism/Asperger issue is not relevant here. I agree on that point (for the most part).

2) The issue should not be made one of English nationalism versus American capitulation, as much of the English media is making it out to be.  The English government has as much to cover up as any other.  

Rather, I believe that there is something being covered up, and that the people of Earth have a right to know.  Note that I did not say "aliens."  I said "something."  For all I know, the government might be using the alien notion in order to discredit those who believe that clean energy is being covered up.  Either way, however, Big Oil is more dangerous to our national security than one hacker, especially considering its pro-Saudi bent.

As for number 2, the great body of the American people side with Gary.  The real America, which is the hard working America of common laborers and toilers, is on the side of Gary.  None of us would be for him if he were a genuine spy.  Rather, we are tired of being lied to.  Most of us are tired of being made to pay huge corporations for their mistakes, and then being laid off.  A lot of us even consider him a hero, to be honest.  

For myself, I will not advocate what Gary did, since others will have agendas that are not honorable, and which may involve malicious intent.  As for Kevin Mitnik, he was a whole other case.  Let us not confuse the two.  And, as for hackers who are thieves or terrorists---throw the book at them.  If there is a genuine military secret, and it is spilled, then full treason or espionage charges should be filed.  That includes a citizen of an ally country such as England.  However, such is not the case here, since Gary never touced military secrets.  Such is not even being alleged here by the Prosecution.  No one is even alleging that Gary McKinnon has engaged in war against the United States.  

I have no political agenda.  I would never hack, nor do I advocate hacking.  A political point was made, and made effectively.  Yet, I would never counsel anyone to do what Gary did.  And, to be frank, I would have talked Gary out of it if I were present in the room with him.  I even support the notion that he should serve a small amount of time for the crime of hacking, to be served in England.  

Even so, if he is extradited then a legal precedent is set.  That legal precedent is that a person can be termed a "terrorist" when no terrorist activity was committed.  As an American who believes in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, this is frightening.  I fear my own government much more than I fear Gary McKinnon.  And, to be honest, they have stolen our money and given it to AIG, which Gary McKinnon never did.  

By the way, I am not a terrorist.  Nor am I a revolutionary.  I support the rule of law.  As such, I do not want a precedent set that would rebound against freedom on our own shores.

I will go ahead and give Gareth the last word, since I do not want to belabor this point.  Let me give a website address:

http://freegary.org.uk/

And, Gareth, for the last time, Gary did not disable anything!  Do you actually think that the greatest military in the world could be one-upped by one computer hacker?  Come on!  

Happy birthday good man.  All the best.

This is truly the most important aspect of the case that we should be concerned with. In my view, it is only relevant in the sentencing phase when the question of whether he would be more vulnerable in prison is considered.

As stated in the court documents, multiple DLL files required to boot were deleted. Doing this would take no great skill at all once connected to the machines. If you want to see what I mean, try this on a spare computer (and I emphasise spare - you'll need an OS reinstall after doing this) running windows:

Go to "my computer", click C:\ and then windows
Click System
Delete all the files you can
Reboot

See if it still boots up.

As Gary already had access to the graphical interface (this is how he was caught as I stated above - someone sitting there could see the mouse cursor moving by itself), doing this would be absolutely trivial. Unless you wish to make the claim that the prosecution actually falsified evidence, the conclusion is very clear.

"Unless you wish to make the claim that the prosecution actually falsified evidence, the conclusion is very clear."

Well, truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.  I am sure we will know some day what the real truth is.  

Enjoy your birthday cake.

Even the world's greatest hacker will eventually make a mistake. Even the greatest ever is still fallible. Hacking networks may be something like an art form, but it's criminal all the same. There are "helpful" and "unhelpful" ways to use this ability, but a (relative) little knowledge is a dangerous thing, is it not?

Computer programming may just be the non-supernatural equivalent of magic. The hacker who surfs the big waves of cyberspace reminds me of the Disney classic, The Sorcerer's Apprentice. Essentially, it's a story that cautions against meddling in powers you don't fully comprehend.*  Gary MacKinnon had the mad skillz, but lacked the wisdom to know right from wrong.


~~~~~~


*The Apprentice summoned an army of walking broomsticks to carry buckets of water from the well to the cistern, but to his horror he couldn't stop make them stop once the cistern was full. Had the Sorcerer not returned to his lair just then, poor MIckey would have drowned ...

Given his status as a hero and potential martyr to so many, how can Gary get a fair & unbiased trial?

Celebrity justice is always skewed ...

Gary had just enough skill to do something really dumb, he's in no way great.

Also, that is a good point about his trial - it likely won't be fair if so many would like to view him as a martyr.

Am I alone in thinking that instead of being extradited to the States that Gary should be paid vast sums of money to go to the States and work for the CIA and other bodies?  He's managed to hack into the Pentagon's computer systems.  The man should be congratulated for showing them how weak their (doubtless) very expensive systems are.  If Gary McKinnon has managed to hack in, is the Pentagon certain he's alone, and that other professional hackers (perhaps working for the intelligence services of other countries) haven't managed it too?  Most large high profile companies hire computer specialists to attempt to hack their systems, and not for a second do I believe that a body like the Pentagon wouldn't have done so.  This man has succeeded where others have failed.

This story should have never got this far.  A very lucrative deal should have been done a long time ago to ensure this fantastically able man's skills were put to best use.  This story is unfolding into a farce.  It's not Gary who's been foolish here.  Gary McKinnon will become a hero in the hacking world if punished.  I appreciate we have laws to protect society, but this man has proven who vulnerable the US's ultimate security system is.  

This story could have been killed off a long time ago by holding Gary briefly on remand in the UK then giving him a suspended sentence while making he was employed to help the appropriate authorities.

There's a few basic groups you could classify crackers and hackers into:
1 - penetration testers - given authorisation to try and probe a system or network and produce a report highlighting weaknesses, i've done this kind of thing myself for friends (great fun to do by the way, I remember completely owning one guy's machine with so many backdoors it needed a reinstall)

2 - those who are not authorised but who do not cause damage and report flaws they find - although this practice is illegal, ethically it's much more excusable than someone who finds flaws and exploits them for personal gain or for malicious purposes, to some extent you could classify most security researchers in this group - the guys who work for antivirus companies or CERT and publish their findings alongside workarounds - sometimes this can be illegal (such as breaking into a public website and then telling the owner how you did it and how to fix it), other times it may be completely legal (such as for example reverse engineering new versions of windows or decompiling viruses to find security holes and pressuring microsoft to fix them), also known as white hats or grey hats depending on legality

3 - malicious crackers - the kind of people who'd break into your machine and plant a sniffer or keylogger, then use it to get your credit card details, or virus authors who do the same kind of reverse engineering as legit security professionals do, these are the "black hats"

4 - script kiddies - some classify them as black hats, some don't - the best definition I can think of is "black hats with hardly any real skill and a trollish attitude"

I'd classify Gary as somewhere between 3 and 4, he was malicious in his actions and did not report the flaws he found, he left taunting messages and caused damage, but he used very poor judgement in his choice of tools (using a commercial remote control app instead of for example injecting a silent VNC server or reverse shell) and did not need much skill to make the initial breakin.

If Gary had not shown malice in his actions and his only crime was mere unauthorised access, I would be vastly more sympathetic to him. Of course, this is all beside the main point - an NT in his situation would get identical treatment, so his case isn't an autism rights issue.