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Unwritten Social Rules
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micgrace
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Question  Unwritten Social Rules

This is a problem for myself and nearly everyone with aspies I know and continually gets us into strife whether on the internet, at a BBQ, dance or anything else.

The three main areas that seem to cause the most strife are talking about sexuality identity, political persusian and religious conviction almost invaribly will bring a hostile response since these three areas are very deeply held core beliefs that a person will vigourously defend if there is a perceived attack on them.

I have seen what happens when these subjects are brought up first hand and the results are not pretty. I consider it advisable to steer clear of these subjects unless you are with people of the same or very similar beliefs.

There are many others I'm sure others will be added. Cool


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07-26-2008 03:27 PM
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Grumpy_Old_Rossco



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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

Mate I tend to keep fairly superficial relationships with people. Friendly, cordial and not that involved. This is one of the reasons. I have (surprisingly I know) never been accused of being subtle or delicate and I tend to avoid situations that are likely to embarrass, humiliate or social isolate me. Makes for a long list all in all. Arm's length works for me , sort of.


07-26-2008 03:37 PM
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Wilhemina
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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

Somehow or another, this makes sense to people, though I know not why...

We have found that discussing that you are Autistic, or an Aspie, is a bad thing.  I think expanding this to the discussion of any other "mental condition" (bad term but I have not had coffee yet) applies.  Apparently it is ok to discuss your infected toenail, your hernia, etc., but if you say that your brain is wired differently, or that you have sought help for a mental condition of some kind, people are horrified, and suddenly all have to go...

07-26-2008 06:01 PM
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WatsonSword



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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

It all has to do with the "Us vs Them" mentality.
This is ingrained into the human psyche from the days when we hunted with simple machines of wood, twine, and stone on the African Savana --and our instincts still think we are--.
Resources were so difficult to acquire and keep in those times that you had to fight against other tribes just to survive. This is not so anymore, but like I said, we are still wired to think it is.

Unwritten social rules and conventions --beyond mere politeness-- in my opinion serve largely as both a straightjacket and a crutch for this mindset.
In other words, you're allowed to be different as long as you don't ever say that you're different. It's the socio-evolutionary (is that even a real word?) equivalent of "Don't ask. Don't tell."

For instance, I believe that marriage (all marriage) is a largely outdated, hirearchal institution with little use in modern society. But due to social conventions, I had to remove that opinion from my signature.

07-26-2008 11:09 PM
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Aeolienne



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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

micgrace Wrote:
The three main areas that seem to cause the most strife are talking about sexuality identity, political persusian and religious conviction almost invaribly will bring a hostile response since these three areas are very deeply held core beliefs that a person will vigourously defend if there is a perceived attack on them.

What about money?
It used to be said (in 1950s guides to etiquette, at any rate) that you should steer clear of the three topics Religion, Politics and Money when conversing with someone you don't know that well.


As the player's breath warms the fipple the tone clears.
It is time to consider how Domenico Scarlatti
condensed so much music into so few bars
with never a crabbed turn or congested cadence,
never a boast or a see-here; and stars and lakes
echo him and the copse drums out his measure,
snow peaks are lifted up in moonlight and twilight
and the sun rises on an acknowledged land.

Basil Bunting, Briggflatts
07-26-2008 11:33 PM
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Wilhemina
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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

Good one, I agree, money is a topic that makes people feel uncomfortable.  I am pretty open about it, and then I have noticed, people do not share the same information with me, so I must be doing it wrong.

07-26-2008 11:49 PM
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Natalie



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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

Aeolienne Wrote:

micgrace Wrote:
The three main areas that seem to cause the most strife are talking about sexuality identity, political persusian and religious conviction almost invaribly will bring a hostile response since these three areas are very deeply held core beliefs that a person will vigourously defend if there is a perceived attack on them.

What about money?
It used to be said (in 1950s guides to etiquette, at any rate) that you should steer clear of the three topics Religion, Politics and Money when conversing with someone you don't know that well.

Yeah, that's what my mother always used to tell me as well, and in general I adhere to it. I believe it does prevent a lot of potential problems.

My cousin sometimes tries to start debates between me and other people she knows by blurting out some of my political opinions that don't exactly jive with the predominantly liberal atmosphere in this area, and I just try to ignore her.

07-27-2008 12:39 AM
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micgrace
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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

Korrigan Wrote:
Good one, I agree, money is a topic that makes people feel uncomfortable.  I am pretty open about it, and then I have noticed, people do not share the same information with me, so I must be doing it wrong.

Ah yes I forgot about money. That can be an issue of contention. Anyway got to go my daughter BADLY wants to go on the computer before she has a meltdown and hers aren't pleasant.


Rule 1. Never, ever, give up (mind blanks excepted)
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07-27-2008 02:59 AM
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A True Monotheist



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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

micgrace Wrote:
This is a problem for myself and nearly everyone with aspies I know and continually gets us into strife whether on the internet, at a BBQ, dance or anything else.

The three main areas that seem to cause the most strife are talking about sexuality identity, political persusian and religious conviction almost invaribly will bring a hostile response since these three areas are very deeply held core beliefs that a person will vigourously defend if there is a perceived attack on them.

I have seen what happens when these subjects are brought up first hand and the results are not pretty. I consider it advisable to steer clear of these subjects unless you are with people of the same or very similar beliefs.

There are many others I'm sure others will be added. Cool


ATM: Strife is OK, as long as it is productive.  I think that people should disagree.  That is part of free discourse.

All the best.


A True Monotheist
Hillel says, "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?" Ethics of the Fathers, 1:14
07-28-2008 09:14 PM
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Pakrat



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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

WatsonSword Wrote:
It all has to do with the "Us vs Them" mentality.
This is ingrained into the human psyche from the days when we hunted with simple machines of wood, twine, and stone on the African Savana --and our instincts still think we are--.
Resources were so difficult to acquire and keep in those times that you had to fight against other tribes just to survive. This is not so anymore, but like I said, we are still wired to think it is.

Unwritten social rules and conventions --beyond mere politeness-- in my opinion serve largely as both a straightjacket and a crutch for this mindset.
In other words, you're allowed to be different as long as you don't ever say that you're different. It's the socio-evolutionary (is that even a real word?) equivalent of "Don't ask. Don't tell."

For instance, I believe that marriage (all marriage) is a largely outdated, hirearchal institution with little use in modern society. But due to social conventions, I had to remove that opinion from my signature.


How often are social conventions actually political correctness gone rampant? I know we have to have a certain number of conventions to allow society to run smoothly but if something is really important, I always think it should be written down or at least passed down to new generations via word of mouth.

I certainly think it is wise to be careful about bringing up sexuality/political views - particularly the more incendiary ones which I don't think I should mention in case they start a fight/having a mental illness. Our honesty makes us vulnerable to being thought of as weird because we tend to over self-disclose too early in a conversation.

But it's hard and we often are left with the idea "well, what on earth do they expect me to say?". Usually, talking about the weather is quite safe.

In mother's groups, it's very easy to offend with different views about breastfeeding -vs- bottle feeding, using a dummy or not and for how long, toilet training, weaning, sleeping in parents' beds, spoiling -vs- being strict, etc. But yet if you don't contribute to the conversation, you're seen as weird so what do you do?

09-27-2008 02:15 PM
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micgrace
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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

The easy way out is just to ask them questions about their habits. Like do you.. Hmm.. yes sort of great I know someone who ..without really saying anything. OK that is typical NT conversation. Nothing of any importance really gets said so noone gets offended. Crazy? You bet. But without ever revealing your own viewpoint. Hey I can by with this all the time and until I have a public meltdown escape attention or being seen as weird. Worth a go, just listen to a couple of female friends talking.


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Rule 2. Refer to rule 1.
09-27-2008 02:27 PM
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Pakrat



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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

But I don't have any female friends so I can't listen.

09-27-2008 02:42 PM
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micgrace
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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

Don't have to. Just be within earshot of some friends gasbagging to each other, say on the train. I learnt a lot that way. Then simply copy what works.


Rule 1. Never, ever, give up (mind blanks excepted)
Rule 2. Refer to rule 1.
09-27-2008 02:46 PM
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Pakrat



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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

But I don't want to copy inane discussions about poxy shows such as "Friends" or who's lost or gained weight and so on, blah, blah, blah. I'm certainly not comfortable talking about sexuality but I find discussing religion, social policies and politics interesting. The sometime Aussie custom of women being consigned to the kitchen and men talking about all the interesting topics sucks big time.

09-27-2008 02:51 PM
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micgrace
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RE: Unwritten Social Rules

Unfortunately thats what being part of an NT world is like, inane discussions about no particular subject with no particular end point or any logic. That is just how it is. It would be far better if it wasn't. I much prefer a clear cut logical discussion about something concrete but I have learnt to be adaptable.

That custom of women being in the kitchen is long gone. But there are some diehards out there though. There is nothing wrong with a concrete discussion and I know quite a few women who love a concrete discussion as much as you. And detest soapies etc. But they certainly dengerate to the you know kinda social talk (my description) when with other females.

Anyway my wife is NT, albeit with an acquired brain disorder (accident) so I need some of those skills myself to relate. Like an inane discussion about nothing in particular, with no point in mind. Plus pillow talk even more illogical.

What I hate is talking about so called male things. Football and almost all sports. Like who cares? I'm not part of it. So as a side result I have a tremendous number of female friends but few conventional male friends apart from the university level guys who do see things differently than the run of the mill blue collar.


Rule 1. Never, ever, give up (mind blanks excepted)
Rule 2. Refer to rule 1.
09-28-2008 02:02 AM
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