"A recent story in The New York Times examined the conflicts
that occur between some people with autism, some of whom protest any
treatment, and their parents.[2]  Dr. Grandin: I've read those things, the
whole conflict about ABA -- applied behavior analysis. Those techniques are
mainly for very little children, for 2 to 5 year olds, to get language
started. They're not for high-functioning 8 and 9 year olds. And most people
in those protests are the more mild Asperger's types. We need to be working
on developing the talents those people have so they can have jobs and
support themselves."

http://lists.envirolink.org/pipermail/sa...00379.html

Does she mean that people who are against ABA generally have mild aspergers? or that aspergers itself is mild?

I got that she's saying people at the protests don't have jobs/support themselves!

         I don't think that is what she meant. I do know she is not a fan of ABA and is one of the few peers we have who consistently says that there are other ways to help young people.

       As far as what she thinks of people at the protests, I think it is a stretch to imply that she thinks they are all bums. I have never heard her say that.

                                          Jerry Newport

I may have misunderstood her, Jerry. that's why I said my impression was. Here's what me think so: "And most people
in those protests are the more mild Asperger's types. We need to be working
on developing the talents those people have so they can have jobs and
support themselves."

        Well, one thing I take exception to is that Temple is quick to generalize without grounds to do so. Part of it is because as a PhD, she gets away with it. Part of it is because she was the first of us to really gain public recognition, officially diagnosed. She was the only one for a long time and she is not really used to being challenged.

      For example, she just assumed that I am not a visual thinker and told an audience that. I was in the audience and politely corrected her after the talk and she hasn't made that mistake again

      So I doubt if Temple can say for sure what the makeup is of the protests. But I agree with her that if it is mostly aspies, their expression of autism is relatively mild compared to the full dose but that is another generalization which will not be completely accurate.

                                 Jerry Newport

The article wasn't very clear, but I thought she was saying that some very young, nonverbal autistic kids may benefit from ABA and that teaching social skills to older kids shouldn't come at the expense of career development.  She seems to be saying that ABA is inappropriate for older children and for those who can communicate.  I didn't get the impression that she was insulting anyone for not having a job.

          That is my take on how she feels, based on more dinners I have shared with her than I can count. Temple, however, does take a dim view of people she regards as "professional auties." In that regard, I think she tends to forget the breaks she had that most of us didn't enjoy.

    Temple was born filthy-rich, availed of the best services in her day, was mentored into a career and never really had to work a day of her adult life, thanks to the royalties her family continues to receive for the invention of a grand-parent ( one of her grand-fathers invented a transponder, used in aviation to help locate airplanes )

      However, Temple was wise enough to use those breaks. I just think she is a little harsh on some of the folks who have "gotten lucky" and found that life after their books etc was preferable to the relative misery of their lives before. ( and I am not talking about myself here

                         Jerry Newport

Jerry said "Temple, however, does take a dim view of people she regards as "professional auties."

Well there must be only a handful of such people. I hope she doesn't feel that super able aspies are trying to prevent young kids getting help. As far as I am concerned we are against abusive therapies, and I include giving ABA for forty hours a week to kids of 3 in that.

I may be an aspie, but I was unable to finish college and can only ever dream of getting a PhD. Its all relative.

   Jerry:     I got a college diploma with no clue what to do with it. I couldn't make it through interviews and had no useful help. I could get a PhD now but at 57, why bother?

I'm going to be totally honest here and state that I'm really not sure what ABA is or why its viewed negatively. Possibly once I know what it is, I'll know why its viewed negatively.

I'm aware of the Lovass version of ABA which definitely seems abusive to me but as I understand it, aren't there lots of different flavours of ABA these days?

Hi Kev, take a look at this site -
http://users.1st.net/cibra/

It seems that ABA therapists have tried to clean up their act and now many say that they never use aversives. However there are huge amounts of money to be earned, some parents go greatly into debt to pay for the therapy, $5000 a month sometimes :shock:

I have spoken to parents whose kids have suffered from ABA therapy recently, and some parents groups like to potray that if a child does NOT recieve ABA then they will remain LFA, speechless and dependant forever.

See also -

http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_aba.html

Michelle Dawson's Misbehaviour of behaviourists.

Same here.  When I graduated, I had no idea that the interviewers were going to discriminate against me because of my voice and body language.   I didn't know what was going on.

I'm not sure if the reason my parents didn't tell me was because they didn't know, or didn't want to upset me, or just thought I didn't need to work anyway because I was female.

After staying home with my kids for several years, I was able to figure out the workplace enough to get a reasonably good job, but I certainly could have avoided a lot of stress and confusion if I'd had some career guidance when I was younger.

     Jerry: Took me over twenty years to finally get a decent job. That was because a friend of mine, on the local ASA board, helped me get hired at UCLA. Temple has no clue how hard it has been for most of us and I remind her whenever I can, politely

Yikes. Thats pretty uncomfortable reading. Thanks for posting that Amy.