Poll: How can an intelligent Autistic child be helped to escape Special Education Prison? (mulitple choices OK)
really push the child to work hard on "extra" work, and keeping a record of the child's progress.  
Contact a pro bono lawyer (the parents are unable to do this, so the school teacher or Aide must)
Assemble with other employees and try to form a coalition, even against the threat of being fired
Find some sympathetic organization or media outlet
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Special Education Oppression?
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Ethel
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Post: #31
RE: Special Education Oppression?

Sadly, AP, this is how it goes.  The more out-there your theories, the harder you have to be prepared to work to sell them to people, but ATM prefers to lob in, post something really, really long, and then run away and not engage in any follow-up debate whatsoever with those few who DO have the time, patience and skill to decipher it.  

As for the fancy, dressed up speech... the refusal to acknowledge others' concerns and the dismissal of debate with excuses which basically boil down to "I don't have time to explain things to simpletons like you, I have another 6,000 words to write about the superiority of autistic people" makes me think this courtesy is the "courtesy" a Victorian gentlemen might have extended to a clothed chimpanzee brought into a tea party as a novelty.

07-11-2008 02:13 PM
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Callista



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Post: #32
RE: Special Education Oppression?

Autistics DO have a 'holy purpose'. God made me different for a reason; and it sure isn't to try to blend in with others. That doesn't make me superior; it means I'm specialized, that there are things I'm meant to do that other people aren't quite as well suited for.

The distinction that ATM doesn't seem to be emphasizing strongly enough is that this is true for NTs, too. Nobody in the world is completely typical, average at everything. The world needs NTs with all their varied talents just as it needs autistics. Society's a big puzzle, and without autistics in it, there are pieces missing.

Yes, I just used a puzzle-piece metaphor. Deal with it.


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07-11-2008 04:57 PM
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Ethel
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Post: #33
RE: Special Education Oppression?

Yes, but ATM believes that autistics are a holy race created by "G*d" for the purpose of interpreting the Torah and being consulted by rabbis.  So, if you're not doing that, under the ATM model, you're letting the side down.  We are NOT all supposed to be different and special and unique - we are supposed to be God's Master Race of Prophets.

Besides which, I DO NOT agree with the idea that ATM pushes that autistic people need to wall ourselves off as separate from the mainstream.  I'm not saying we all have to pretend to be NTs, I'm saying hiding away from the mainstream world in a walled garden of imagined superiority is NOT A GOOD IDEA.  The only difference between a stronghold and a concentration camp is the angle of the razor wire at the top of the fence.

07-12-2008 02:59 AM
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Callista



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Post: #34
RE: Special Education Oppression?

All right. So you disagree with him. So do I; I'm Christian, for one thing. But you are exaggerating his arguments before you reply to them. Stop doing that; it's annoying and it makes things go in circles. And quit it with the concentration camps and Master Race, or I'll invoke Godwin's Law on you.

Isn't it possible to respect someone's opinions, even if you think they're wrong? I would highly recommend that.


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07-12-2008 03:08 AM
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AgentPalpatine



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Post: #35
RE: Special Education Oppression?

I fail to understand why ATM is required to defend alleged theories which have been imputed to him.  His question stands or falls on its own merits.  More to the point how are these alleged theories relevant to the posted question?  I think the question surely is an interesting one, even if I don't have an answer.

07-12-2008 03:14 AM
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earthmonkey
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Post: #36
RE: Special Education Oppression?

Callista Wrote:
Autistics DO have a 'holy purpose'. God made me different for a reason; and it sure isn't to try to blend in with others. That doesn't make me superior; it means I'm specialized, that there are things I'm meant to do that other people aren't quite as well suited for.

The distinction that ATM doesn't seem to be emphasizing strongly enough is that this is true for NTs, too. Nobody in the world is completely typical, average at everything. The world needs NTs with all their varied talents just as it needs autistics. Society's a big puzzle, and without autistics in it, there are pieces missing.

Yes, I just used a puzzle-piece metaphor. Deal with it.


Word.


Talking about "a cure for autism" is like taking a sledgehammer to a glass Domino set.



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07-12-2008 03:24 AM
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Ethel
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Post: #37
RE: Special Education Oppression?

I don't have the time, or inclination, to trawl through thousands of old posts.  If you don't believe me, don't, and God bless you.

The concerns I have raised are ones I've raised directly with ATM back in the past on the threads where these issues first came up.  As I said at the time, I don't honestly understand a lot of what ATM says because he goes around in circles so much.  So I asked "are you saying <insert theory here>?" I assume that if I'd been wrong, he'd have corrected me.  Since he did not respond, I assume I was right, or at least right enough to not warrant correction or further explanation.  I'm not psychic.

Hard as it may be to believe, I am trying to do the right thing.  There are two people I'm worried about here: 1.  The kid and 2.  ATM.  I don't knowthe kid remotely, and neither do any of us.  We only have ATM's word to go by and frankly I don't think it's our place as internet randoms to be giving advice on what's best for this kid.  

I know what it's like to have an idea that I think makes total sense and is totally waterproof... until I try to explain it to someone else and they point out the holes in it.  That's what I'm trying to do with ATM...  Because if he takes option three and ends up on his bum in the dole queue with a big black mark beside his name as a teacher and a bad reference from his boss... and THEN realises it wasn't such a good idea after all, that's a terrible waste of a career where he could have achieved a lot of good.   if he'd actually discuss things sensibly.

Oh, and I've NEVER likened ATM or anyone else to a Nazi, and the term "master race" is hardly patented by Hitler,.  But if you want to accuse me of Godwinning the thread because it makes you feel big and tough, go right ahead.

07-12-2008 04:30 AM
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Bear the Max



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Post: #38
RE: Special Education Oppression?

Ethel Wrote:
Yes, but ATM believes that autistics are a holy race created by "G*d" for the purpose of interpreting the Torah and being consulted by rabbis.  So, if you're not doing that, under the ATM model, you're letting the side down.  We are NOT all supposed to be different and special and unique - we are supposed to be God's Master Race of Prophets.


Oh.

Well.

does this require circumcision?

07-12-2008 04:53 AM
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Shrek



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Post: #39
RE: Special Education Oppression?

Ouch--- I am covering my crotch like the guys in Spaceballs.....  

No it does not require circumcision, not in the Christian faith.  You are a new creation on the inside because God made you so, and it is impossible to hide it, so they don't need a ritual.  Acts 15 narrows down the list of essentials for non-Jewish Christians..... no circumcision specifically.  You do not have to give 10% of your income, you can give 20% (I am giving roughly 2% at the moment).   What Paul passed along is what not to do and there are only four of those - I will not repeat them except to say two are easy, don't eat blood and don't eat meat offered to idols.


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07-12-2008 06:08 AM
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tenaciouscj



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Post: #40
RE: Special Education Oppression?

Callista Wrote:
All right. So you disagree with him. So do I; I'm Christian, for one thing. But you are exaggerating his arguments before you reply to them. Stop doing that; it's annoying and it makes things go in circles. And quit it with the concentration camps and Master Race, or I'll invoke Godwin's Law on you.

Isn't it possible to respect someone's opinions, even if you think they're wrong? I would highly recommend that.

Please don't invoke Godwin's law. It really annoys me when that happens. I think Ethel made a number of good points and there is nothing in her analogy about the prisoner of war camp -vs- the stronghold that justifies invoking a silly and irrelevant law.


It's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission.
07-12-2008 08:42 AM
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Tigger_the_Wing
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Post: #41
RE: Special Education Oppression?

GuessWho Wrote:
Ouch--- I am covering my crotch like the guys in Spaceballs.....  

No it does not require circumcision, not in the Christian faith.  You are a new creation on the inside because God made you so, and it is impossible to hide it, so they don't need a ritual.  Acts 15 narrows down the list of essentials for non-Jewish Christians..... no circumcision specifically.  You do not have to give 10% of your income, you can give 20% (I am giving roughly 2% at the moment).   What Paul passed along is what not to do and there are only four of those - I will not repeat them except to say two are easy, don't eat blood and don't eat meat offered to idols.


How do you manage that?!

I reckon at least 30% of our household income is taxed off us for the benefit of all - and we don't get to share those benefits much because we're foregners; so another huge chunk goes on insurance.


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07-12-2008 09:21 AM
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Shrek



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Post: #42
RE: Special Education Oppression?

No children, no mortgage, driving 4000 miles a year or less (one third the average) that one mile commute.  

Bush tax cuts?


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07-13-2008 07:34 AM
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woodpeace



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Post: #43
RE: Special Education Oppression?

If mainstream schools in the UK try to attract children with special educational needs, the number of their pupils who do well in exams goes down, which means the schools fall in the school league tables; so fewer middle class parents send their children to those schools, which means that fewer of their pupils do well in exams and the schools fall further down in the school league tables.  

There is a significant correlation between social class and academic success.       


"Thoughts and words are necessary to help us open to the experience of truth.  But they can never be truth itself."   Simon Small - 'From the bottom of the pond:  The forgotten art of experiencing God in the depths of the present moment'.    
07-13-2008 07:33 PM
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tenaciouscj



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Post: #44
RE: Special Education Oppression?

GuessWho Wrote:
No children, no mortgage, driving 4000 miles a year or less (one third the average) that one mile commute.  

Bush tax cuts?

One mile? I'd say you could just about walk that.


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07-14-2008 04:39 PM
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Shrek



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Post: #45
RE: Special Education Oppression?

I did this morning.  It was really cool because it had just rained the night before and it was cloudy.  

It really is sort of fun.  I ought to get up early more often.  

I got up early.  I slept all weekend.

I think I would sleep for a week if I took a week off.


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07-14-2008 04:56 PM
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