According to this webpage, we may in fact be sharing more primitive Neanderthal genes?

http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm#Australopithecus

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How to prove or refute the theory

Any serious theory needs some ways of proving or refuting it. Since this theory is based on things that happened a long time ago, this is not very easy too do. However, genetics offer some promising possibilities.

Autism and psychiatric genes

The most important task is to identify autism genes. Without them, there is very little possibility to prove anything. David Comings is actually working on the genetic basic of Tourette (and therefore also autism and co morbid conditions). Essential for the validity of this theory, is that many genes are involved. This seems to be the case too, as David believes there are 600 genes behind.

Age of autism genes

Central to this theory, is that the majority of autism genes should be 30,000 to 50,000 years old when measured for diversity,  and many times older when comparing haplotype differences. This would be the effect of rare hybridization, and the following positive selection of Neanderthal genes. The diversity of these Neanderthal genes would be lost in the hybridization process, as well as any intermediate forms of them. The result is haplotypes that have many mutational differences, and no intermediates. The DRD4 7R gene fits this description, but more genes need to be researched.

Population distribution of autism genes

It's also essential for the validity of this theory that the majority of autism genes are most common in Caucasians, less common in Asians and Amerindians, and least common in black Africans.  

Prevalence studies of autism and other psychiatric conditions

Analogue with the gene argument, it would follow that autism, ADD, Tourette and other psychiatric "disorders" should be most common in Caucasians, less common in Asians and Amerinidians, and least common in black Africans. However, research on this must be made using population studies, and must include more than mentally disabled individuals.

Faceblindness and Neanderthal faces

A real possibility is to check if faceblind people with autistic traits can recognize Neanderthals faces better than modern human faces. This would refute or confirm that prosapagnosia is caused by hybrid genes from Neanderthals

Population based studies of late onset autoimmune disease

The idea of this theory is that autoimmune disease is caused by gene incompabilities, and that autistic individuals will get these more often than others, especially if one or both of the parents are non-autistic. Psychiatry claims autism is caused by autoimmune disease, while this theory claims autistic genes combined with non-autistic genes causes autoimmune disease. Which of these interpretations is correct can be verified by studying prevalence of late onset autoimmune disease in the autistic population. In this case, autoimmune disease cannot  cause autism, and if prevalence is significantly higher, this would tend to support this theory. Online survey's indicate prevalence is 5-10 times higher, but larger random-selection surveys are needed to confirm this finding.

Prevalence of known Neanderthal traits in the autistic population

Online surveys indicate that probable Neanderthal traits / genes like flat foot, crooked tooth / underbite, Rhesus factor, hair color, freckles, factor V leiden and hemochormatosis are several times more prevalent than in the non-autistic population. Random, controlled, survey's could confirm or reject these findings.

Animal domestication

Genetic studies could be used to date remains of wolves / dogs in Neanderthal settings. If it's found the genes of these animals are closer to today's dogs than to wolves, this would indicate dog domestication happened in Neanderthals. Similar procedures can be used with other now domestic species that can be found in Neanderthal "prey".

Here's an older thread on the subject, for those interested:
http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthre...355&page=1

I'm quite a fan of the theory personally, though I'll have to admit it's based on very tenuous research, and there's a few inconsistencies with the theory that haven't been worked out...

Interesting...my 9 year old AS son used to talk about the Australopithecus all the time.

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DITTO! I just feel in my BONES that the autism gene originated with the Neanderthals. Was reading just last night that the Neanderthals were the first hominids to bury their dead....

PS I am RH-, so is Hope, I have red hair and freckles, so does Hope, there are too many similarities for it to be a coincidence. The kicker (the one fact that convinced me) was when I read that Neanderthal man used to tackle and rock to kill prey. Sound like stimming anyone?

Also, look at their RANGE- it coincides with where autism is most prevalent today (mainly Europe and the US, the Baltic area also- the white race primarily). The rest is inbreeding, hence the slightly wider range today. (Today, we are a little of everything). Millions are related to Attila the Hun 'cause he raped so many women. Barack Obama is related (thru his white Mom, now deceased) to six past white Presidents and Brad Pitt of all people.

I am 80-90% sure Neanderthals and early humans never interbred.  If they were 'another species' they certainly didn't because being unable to produce viable offspring is the definition of different species (that article claimed tiger and lions could breed. They can, but the offspring is always messed up and infertile. Their wolves/coyotes claim was valid.)  As for autism being most prevelant in Europe/North America, have you considered it's just being diagnosed here more?

Also, I think we'd have massive noses and extremely weak chins if we were part Neanderthal.  There's that brow ridge as well, and they were also a lot stronger physically than early humans.  That's probably why they died off; with a physical advantage there was less pressure to evolve mentally.

Neanderthals have been proved to have been a different species with whom humans did not interbreed. There is, however another possibility of connection with Cro-Magnons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon

Cro-Magnon influence is found all over the world, but in Europe is found in certain sub-racial groupings called 'upper-paleolithic survivors'.

Finnish people are the most Cro-Magnoid nation in Europe.

Do they have higher incidences of autism than other European nations?

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/6/1/1507/76240
http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v8/n10/...1299a.html

The answer is emphatically YES. Especially in the North of Finland.

Perhaps there are clues here regarding the special diets which are said to help people with ASDs. The 'Paleolithic Diet', for example which contains no dairy products.

According to the old sub-racial classifications which are based upon skull measuring, the following Europid sub-racial groupings are the most Cro-Magnoid:

East-Baltid
Borreby
Baltid
Bruenn
Dalo-Falid

Borreby is found around Germany. Bruenn is found in the far West of Ireland, Dalo-Falids and the Baltids are found further North...

Well there you go. Race as determined by morphology correlating with genetic evidence.

I would wager that a higher proportion of people with ASDs in Europe would be classified as being from one of the Cro-Magnoid sub-racial groupings than those who are NT if the Finnish evidence is anything to go by.

Oh well...

I hope that I was not too racist for the PC people on the forum.

If you are interested in the physical anthropology of Northern Europe go here:

http://www.nordish.com

It must be added that Cro-Magnoid influences are also found in other populations such as the Berbers of North Africa. I find this most interesting and I have felt a connection to their beautiful geometrical decorative arts. There is something wonderfully primitive which runs through the white races.

Neandies were clearly idiots, as they died off.

That's good old nazi logic right there.

I need to check and see if our ancestry is northern Finnish.

Viking ancestry here my old son ;p genetics wise anyway.

I am from the Mediterranean area.  Is there any connection with Neanderthal or Cro-magnoid groups with the Mediterranean...?

Yes, there are Cro-Magnoid traces (NOT Neanderthal, they DIED out) all over the place and not just in Finland.

I would like to add that physical appearance does not always equal genetics, but there have been shown to be correlations between which geneticists have mapped and what physical anthropologists (skull measurers) have mapped.

The Meditteranids (who are not really found in isolation any more, rather in combination with other sub-races) came later after the Ice Age and interbred with Cro-Magnons. There is controversy over quite what the interactions were, but...

I am going to point some examples of Cro-Magnon and Cro-Magnoid people:

This is Cro-Magnon man:



Neanderthal is on the left:



You can see that he is entirely different, but that Cro-Magnon man is the white man's white ancestor.

Cro-Magnoid people, upper paleolithic survivors:



Compare these to some non-CM European examples, and you can see the overall subtle difference:



Hair colouring and other markers are often a distraction when determining sub-race, which is why skull measuring is employed.

Neanderthal is on the left:
.

I think I went out with that guy on the left a few years ago...

More seriously, I'm quite open to the idea that there are some bloody weird things floating around the human gene pool.

But, as someone with both Australian Aboriginal and Chinese blood, may I be the first to ask what this "white man's white ancestor" stuff?  Are white people suddenly a different race from the rest of homo sapiens?

I find this theory quite interesting... even if I don't really understand it (university has hurt my brain irrepairably - I was more intelligent before I went to university ). My origins are that my mother's side are Irish (complete with the red hair, blue eyes, freckles and bad temper) and my dad's side are from somewhere in the Med (not sure where, don't know much about that side of my family). I'm my dad's daughter though - I'm the double of him, behave like him etc. I think my dad is on the spectrum too because he was extremely random, 'out there' and very much his own person - and now he has schizophrenia (I say that to local Aspies and they always say "oh is your dad an Aspie too?")... which is interesting because I read they want to change it to a schizophrenic spectrum... anyway I Aspgress

I do have a big nose though. And I do notice a lot of basic physical traits in me - as in, the awkwardness with the body. Sometimes it feels that my body is too small for me, as if I should be, I dunno, larger?

Mongolids and Australids are not descended from Cro-Magnon man. Same species of course (unlike Neanderthal man who was a different species) but a different race.

What we are looking at here is the possible connection between Cro-Magnon man and autism. Cro-Magnoid genetics are present in varying quantites within different Europid sub-racial groupings, this is because some Europids who are not Cro-Magnoid in origin are rather more descended from later Meditteranid arrivals, who introduced different forms of agriculture.

Ocampo, I do not know what you are imagining, but what I am suggesting is that autism genes were more prevalent in Cro-Magnon populations, which is not to say that they are not found elsewhere.

There is a lot of autism in Finland which has the most Cro-Magnoid population in Europe.

The Bruennid populations of Western Ireland is also CM:

http://www.snpa.nordish.net/rg-brunn.htm

This may be of interest to you.

I classify, racially, as Dinaricised Keltic-nordic with alpinid, which comes out as 'sub-nordic'. More typical of Austria, France and Switzerland than  of Scotland.

he Cro Magnon resembles my husband's body type (Polish I guess for want of a better word). He is actually of German and English ancestry.

I recently read Dr. Peter D'Adamo's book on the 7? genotypes (The GenoType Diet: Change Your Genetic Destiny to live the longest, fullest and healthiest life possible)based on skull, hand/finger, leg to core body measurements, blood type, etc. It took quite a while to go thru the different steps, but turns out I'm an "Explorer"- the type that lived during the tough ice age if I recall the book (or shortly thereafter, I forget). A common one is the "hunter" type- the original caveman genetic package, which ages faster than any other but which has an excellent immune system.  Here's what Amazon.com says about the book:

Broadening his approach to diet and health beyond the four blood types, naturopathic physician D'Adamo (Eat Right 4 Your Type) profiles six GenoTypes and explains how readers can reprogram gene responses to lose and maintain weight, repair cells, avoid illness and age well. D'Adamo draws on epigenetics, the study of the interaction between genes and environment, to argue that tailoring diet and lifestyle to GenoTypes (genetic survival strategies that predate ethnicity and race and correspond to such external traits as body type, jaw shape and teeth patterns) is the most effective means to achieve optimum health. While conditions in the prenatal environment—our own and our ancestors—have profound effects on our genes, D'Adamo contends, readers can take control of their inheritance by turning on positive genes and silencing negative ones through methylation, histone acetylation and other biological processes. He provides methods for readers to determine their types; these include body measurements, fingerprints, and personal and family history. D'Adamo's dietary recommendations are flexible and consist of lists of foods that enhance each GenoType and foods to limit or avoid, but readers can find meal plans and recipes on the author's Web site. D'Adamo's engaging writing style, enthusiasm for his subject and personalized advice will appeal to those who enjoy taking a hands-on approach to their health and exploring new theories.

If you are an explorer you can't drink for example (bummer!). Definitely not wine- that's worse than the hard stuff. Tomatoes, jalapenos are off-limits too and I used to eat quite a lot of them! You are supposed to get off the "toxic" foods for 3 months or so til your kidneys and liver can adjust then you can re-introduce some of these foods. After adjusting your metabolism apparently kicks into higher gear....

A lot of it made no sense to me though.

I will say that he is onto something when he talks about some people having sensitive livers- I have great liver function but always, always the minimum dose works just great with me- I halve pills all the time. I also knew instinctively to avoid acetominphen (poison for "Explorers"). I am an aspirin gal all the way! Nothing else works very well for me.