I know it is getting very tough on non-citizens in America, not only the student visa holders.


The financial aid section of the Shepherd College course catalog, 1987-1989, under international students

Since no financial assistance is available to international students at Shepherd College, students are encouraged to make the necessary arrangements in their home country. (almost a quote)

Which means the parents must be rich to begin with, I knew a couple foreign students at Shepherd.  One is the brother of my faculty advisor from Gambia.  A guy in student government from Spain.

Right now the cultural climate in America is hostile to non-citizens who need assistance.
1.  states moving to make only citizens eligible for social welfare programs, resulting rise in permanent residents seeking citizenship
2.  Washington DC, present day, heavy resentment against Hispanic immigrants on the grounds that a significant proportion are undocumented (unauthorized).  Efforts to shut down a day laborer center (where day laborers and private citizens needing home fix its and landscaping meet) in Herndon, it was closed down.  Fairfax county (south of Alexandria where I live and Arlington County where I work) and Prince William County (south and west of Fairfax) voting to consider building a 1000 bed facility for undocumented people caught by police to await deportation (Arlington county is paradoxically more inclined to favor immigrants)
3.  That border fence many want to build along significant portions of the U.S./Mexico border
4.  Many immigrants often go cash-only to fly below the credit card/ATM/checking/debit payment system (doing so would require disclosing a Social Security or equivalent nine digit number).  Robbers have figured this out and often target them.  Born citizens often take the "who cares?" attitude to being on "radar" (like having a transponder in the computer-controlled economic system), though we keep a token amount of money in wallets in case we are robbed (maybe they won't kill us if they get enough for a few combo meals at McDonalds, also, throw wallet and run other way)
5.  Concerns over should illegal immigrants should have driver's licenses (many would rather avoid having a large number of drivers who have no license or insurance, Virginia actually lets drivers skip insurance for $500, duh) and have nothing to lose by running from the scene of an accident)
6.  Some provisions of laws that haven't been adopted would make it a crime to give even food or water to illegals (aiding and abetting, harboring), that is way too far, you should have the right to feed anyone (and not have to ask whether they are legal or not)
7.  I think this is in part because certain 9/11 terrorists got driver's licenses in Virginia.  My brother had to renew a driver's license and they asked him for a birth certificate, which he had to order.  The national government wants to require the states to have uniform standards for driver's licenses (machine readable, preventing duplicate licenses in several states), the REAL ID act, proposed effective in 2009.

GuessWho, if you read what you have written & what you meant, they appear to me to not be saying the same thing.

You have only used books as reference here  & it looks to me, that you have chosen parts that suit you, many people do do this.
My comments are:-

#1Many Muslims live piously now, I used to live among many & took the opportunity to learn some of their language, this was a two way street, insofar as they appreciated my efforts & gave me information about their lifestyle.

#2 nakedness / semi nakedness & complete or almost full complete coverage is a matter of culture, geography, history & personal choice.

With regard to the 'history', in the UK at least, Victorian  & Edwardian men often became very excited over a glimpse of an ankle or wrist.

Your remark " I must say I felt a sense of reverence for how attractive a woman respectfully dressed can be", could well be considered distasteful by many women.
Do you say the same about men?

I am still working on my house & when it is hot, I work in a bikini top & shorts ( yes even at my age ).
Male builders work in shorts under the same conditions.
I can't see anything wrong with that.

Males & females go onto the beach wearing very little clothing, do you think that it is OK for the men, but not the women?

In my opinion, it isn't your thoughts that can be considered offensive, so much as the way you project them.
If you had said attractively or suitably dressed, this would have come across better than respectfully dressed.
***********************************************************************
Separately, I decided not to respond to most of your posts because, many people have given you advice which you have asked for & you do not listen.
So to respond would be a waste of my time, when there are people who do need help & will listen.

I will now advise you as I do my sons whether you take any notice is entirely your choice you are an adult, albeit a struggling one & can make your own decisions.

I have told my boys that to discuss  their opinions of certain subjects outside of the house is not a good idea as they can get into serious trouble from others by so doing.
Politics...NO
Sexual orientation....NO
Religion...NO
Sexual problems ie not being able to get a girl friend...NO

Generally these subjects are better being discussed with close friends or relatives, or by PM with someone that you can trust.

I am quite new to the forum & know very little history, so I have only touched the tip of the iceberg regarding knowing people, or at least knowing their internet personalities.

Many / most people here are very nice & are kind & helpful & many are / have been trying to help you.
For your own sake, please listen, assimilate & try to amend  your perception.
You can learn, like many of we older ones have already done.

Perhaps if you do this, you might be more likely to find a partner.

Yes indeed. The thing that really worries me, GuessWho, is the lack of generosity of spirit, something that is crucial to making a relationship or marriage work. If you count the cost of everything you give, this soon alienates the other person.

This attitude is so clear in how you talk about your Ghanaian friend. It is said that the Lord loves a cheerful giver and I'm also sure there was a passage in the Bible that said "if a man ask for your shirt, offer him your cloak too". Caviling over a couple of hundred dollars in two years (not even $2 a week) given to your friend epitomises to me a really mean spirit.

Now, I know you might just be parroting off prejudices you learned when you were growing up, but it really gives off a very bad impression. Maybe it's your Asperger's in part, but it's time to break out of the shackles of prejudice and realise that we are all in this life together. It's a very selfish attitude to just say "I'm okay, Jack, b***** the rest of you".

Sadly, this idea of rampant individualism has been fostered and pushed over the years by political and economic theories that have been brought to life in countries such as the USA.
Now, I haven't got to saying everything I believe in, but a fair go for all (egalitarianism) is very high on my list.

But I ask you, if you were in a strange country and had hardly any money, wouldn't you hope that the locals would be generous? The whole idea of Christian forgiveness practiced by the Lord is that we often fall short of perfection but if we sincerely repent, we will be forgiven.
With the example of your African friend, that means he might sometimes do things out of desperation that would perhaps be considered slightly rude.

Do you think he likes begging? I'll bet he feels deeply ashamed but hey, you do what you have to do when situations are desperate. That would also explain why he wouldn't get out of your car. He probably hadn't had anything to eat that day. Also, as I said before, if he spends money in a way you disapprove, that's his business and not yours.

If the Christianity you espouse is so mean-spirited and small-minded, no wonder some of us get turned off. You can also be sure that it will turn off potential partners, unless they are similarly small minded. It's up to you - there's still time to reconsider.

Good point.  I don't know why I would leave the United States, even though I think we have a poor concept of civilization compared to our peers in the democratic industrialized world.

America's fascination with sending elderly parents somewhere where busy yuppies don't have to look at them.....  Mom only spent six weeks in a facility, Dad died at home.

What would my mom have done?  I think my problem is that I think he thinks he is entitled to certain support.  He was no child of my mother, no kin of mine.  It is a miracle I did help him (Jesus miracle), because usually I think we should care for international people over there not over here.  Education is not even mentioned on Jesus' list of "I was such and such and you did such and such for me".  It is food, medical attention, social inclusion, but not an American college education for every promising young person outside the United States.

I am thinking immediate family, you are thinking world family, which is probably closer to Christianity.

The example given by  tenaciouscj was hypothetic

Assumptions again...it is not right to assume that because someone needs a care home, that their relatives don't care.

That is not a Christian attitude, I am a token Christian, but I help where I see a need & I believe that Jesus did the same.

Better.

If you don't understand what is said to you,  why not ask for  a better explanation.

It would be better not to keep bringing your parents into the discussion.

Thanks. Even though it is said that charity begins at home, there is a place for charity anywhere. Why should it make a difference if this man is your literal brother or not? I don't remember seeing anything in the Bible excluding education of needy people.

This man is probably going to get his qualifications if he can hang on for long enough and go back home to help his people. Wouldn't you feel good that you helped him on his way to that goal?

Do you somehow feel superior to him because he is black and poor? I sincerely hope not. Given your outlook on money, maybe it is a miracle that you helped him at all. Do they have service clubs such as Rotary in your area? Over here, the local chapter will often "adopt" a needy overseas student or family or individual needing urgent medical attention and get locals to club together to provide practical help.

I remember seeing in the local paper last year that an African family was helped with Christmas gifts (they had three small children), accommodation, and a job for the father (who had professional qualifications). They had come from a war-torn area and had to spend several years in a refugee camp in parlous conditions before they got here.

The situation in Ghana might not be so dire but it's easy for us to insulated against how hard other people have it. That's why I find the whole Yuppie concept quite distasteful. It seems so selfish and smug. It's not that people shouldn't have well paid jobs but they need to realise that they are lucky to have them. But for the grace of God, they could be poor and on the streets or not have enough money to go to the doctor when they or their family are sick.

Are we going to educate a lot of other people too?  
It is not as though education is of life and death importance.  Lots of people are lucky to know how to read, and they manage in many places in the world.  Many others can't read around the world.

It reminds me of a cartoon we read in Spanish III, Mafaldas and Susanitas.  Malfadas is the educated woman interested in world affairs, Susanitas the more family-oriented one.  One cartoon:

M.  Did you know that the UNESCO says there are 700 million illiterate adults?
S.  To have children, it is the only little thing one wants out of life.
(The cartoon might have the least bit of cheek to it, to lampoon Susanitas for thinking about nothing more than motherhood)

In another cartoon, S. is dreaming about her wedding, when it comes when she is older

Bear in mind that Jesus did not mention worldly education as a thing that [when I was downcast and without] [you gave it to me]

We are injecting Western values into Gideon's needs (I guess I can say the first name)

Given that he is here already, but with the kind of loans and pathetic grants and work study a permanent resident or citizen is eligible for, yes, he would need an education to rise out of poverty as we know it.

What is the worst that would happen to Gideon if he had to put off school for a few years and then struggle like millions of Americans (most of whom were nothing but Americans)?  We have already decided as a country and a society that college education is not as important as food or water.

Usually when parents die, and do not fully exhaust their retirement savings (we are instructed by our leaders to save between 10% and 15% for starters for retirement, unlike Social Security at the beginning and retirement as other Western democracies know it now), they do not think about someone else's kids from another continent, they are thinking about their own children, and how they will rise up to the level they did earlier.  To wit, maybe buy a home, send kids to college if kids are otherwise in the plan, and retire, especially if the parents did it from scratch, they want their kids to have it a little easier.  Maybe worry about a ring for a daughter in law?

Why does the United States let foreign students come to the United States but deny them any financial aid at all unless they make green card (permanent resident)?  Do our leaders expect they will beg from our citizens?  Is that why colleges like Shepherd University harshly advise international students (not permanent residents or refugees who are financial aid eligible) to make their own arrangements at home?  Or stay the hell home? without actually coming out and saying it.

And why would an international student be entitled to our private assistance from individuals?

Many in the United States wish to deprive unauthorized immigrants from getting jobs (at least legally) and government assistance, to discourage them from coming at our expense.  

Myself included, if we regulate immigration and welfare, maybe American employers will be forced to deal with American employees, some with disabilities, at competitive wages.  That seems to be what puts marginalized elements of Americans already living here to work, giving the employer no alternative, like the airplane factories in WWII in the United States and Rosie the Riveter.  I hate to say give the leftovers to immigrants, but yes,
a. employers need to be forced to work with people they would rather not work with, at wages they might not like, cut off the immigration, they will have no choice
b. American citizens need to consider work a natural part of life in America, cut off the welfare, they will have no choice, but under conditions of scarcity, employers may pay them better than usual

I don't think Gideon is as entitled to education as he is bread, water, medical attention, and social acceptance.  It was his decision to come here and he knew it would not be easy.  Would life in Ghana really be bad, though not as good as life here?

Indeed, we do not want one immigrant encouraging four more to come if they have no choice but to beg.  

In fact, Gideon needs to know that Americans do not have endless generosity for college education, even if the vast majority of Americans (at least around Washington) are fantastically educated, 80% graduating college and what not.  Yes, we are the wealthy if education is considered currency.  But education does not sustain life.

And if anything, Gideon is luckier than most.  We stand an excellent chance of sealing the Mexican border, requiring computerized checks of authorization to work, state driver's licenses that function as national ID cards denoting residency status, denying employment and social benefits to unauthorized persons, and maybe eliminating birth on United States territory (or ships and planes) as an automatic guarantee of citizenship.  The 14th amendment was intended to give newly-freed American slaves the right to citizenship after the American Civil War (1861-1865).

Higher education, I am sorry to say, is just short of a profit-making system in America.   No, private and public universities are not for profit, although there are for-profit postsecondary educational facilities in America.  

But any institution must have a source of funding, and in the United States, the primary burden of funding colleges and universities falls on the student (or students' parents if they wish to pay or borrow PLUS, parent loans for undergraduate students, can you believe that?)

An American college will generally recruit as many students as it needs to pay their faculty and staff.  Citizens, permanent residents, and a few others qualify for Federal student aid, some grants and part time work, but increasingly loans.  If a college has more applicants than it needs, it often takes the best it can find.

That is what my faculty advisor told me in grad school (Marshall) based on a conversation I had with him near graduation.

CM: Shepherd College has a selective admissions policy, it says
FA: Where do its students come from?
CM: Some from the West Virginia interior (Spencer, Parkersburg, Wheeling, or Glenville for example) but very very many from suburban Maryland (Montgomery County, a very wealthy county, friends from Rockville area) or northern Virginia (last roommate from Vienna, for example, Arlington and Loudon Counties being very wealthy too).
FA: Are these wealthy areas?
CM: Yes.
FA: Wealthier than the interior of WV or the four WV counties and one OH county around Marshall University (where most MU students come from)?
CM: Yes
FA: The college admissions policy indirectly reflects the socioeconomic status of the area where its students come from.  Montgomery County, killer schools, maybe one of the best in America, perhaps having something to do with the wealth of its residents and property taxes they pay, based on home prices.  
      Interior of West Virginia, forget it.   Though the Eastern Panhandle and a few other places fare better (the Panhandle because it is two hours from Washington by commuter train).  
      A college will always get the best students it can.
      Shepherd College (University) does not enforce a firm minimum standard for applicants based on SAT or ACT scores.  Neither does Marshall.  
      But Shepherd can afford to throw away applicants who have lower ACT and SAT scores because Maryland and Virginia parents reason that Shepherd is as good or better than Maryland or Virginia colleges for an equal or lesser price.  (My dad told me I was going to Shepherd College two years before we moved to WV, so I studied my *** off).   Marshall does not have that choice.  It is not what the admissions office decides, it is who is available, and who can be accepted and who can be thrown away.

     That puts Gideon and other international students at a firm disadvantage especially as the Federal government will not spend one penny for a student on a student visa to attend a U.S. college.

Well now, I think we should add another thing to the list on that other thread - racist attitudes. Would you object so strenuously to the immigrants if they were big and white like you? I find the level of ignorance in your comments about immigrants quite abhorrent. It's not their fault if local jobs are lost. Also, you wouldn't be where you are now if the government didn't give you a help along. So why begrudge Gideon some help on his way?

And if you mention ONCE MORE that you had 36 interviews before you got a job, I swear I am going to SCREAM! Ditto with "Mama and Papa Marsh didn't raise their boys to hate". It is of a complete irrelevance to the discussion and something I couldn't care less about.

How can you call yourself a Christian when you show so many prejudiced attitudes? I might not be the world's best Christian (God knows I fall far short) but even I can see that we are not just put on this earth to amass as much wealth as possible just for ourselves.

Have you ever read the parable of the man and his barns? He'd just finished building a larger barn for all his possessions when he died suddenly that very night. The USA gets criticised (and rightly too) for encouraging rampant materialism and disregard of the less fortunate. True, no country is perfect, and some have dreadful regimes.

But in the USA, the worship of mammon is extremely ingrained into the national pysche and you're a perfect example of how it infects essentially good people. Have you noticed how Jesus and his disciples lived? They didn't have very much money and wore plain clothes. They often didn't know where their next meal was going to come from, let alone a roof over their heads and had to rely on the charity of believers.

Are you going to say they shouldn't have done this and just starved quietly somewhere?

GuessWho ..please read & assimilate the following..... properly & in depth before making another post upon this thread..

Having wealth should not be the prime criterion of getting into college.

I don't see an awful lot of Europeans asking for help to go to college, CJ.  Most of them have better governments than ours, those that pay for college, at least if they have the grades and scores.

I don't care if Gideon was Swiss, it doesn't mean education is a necessity of life.

My parents did not die to expect their sons to close to subsidize the college education of strangers.

Family-on-family aid is different than Christian aid, CJ.

When I had cancer in early 1997 and was severely underemployed.....

My mother continued to feed and house me indefinitely, knowing I could not afford my own living unless I was employed at a Master's or at least a Bachelor's level.  Continued, free use of automobile, and subsidized my job search costs.

Later that year I was sharing the rent with Mom when we moved out of the countryside into a city apartment

No, Mom did not touch my medical expenses.  I simply paid the portion not forgiven as long as necessary, and necessary was almost September 1999.

Covenant Baptist Church sent a bag of groceries.

Maybe we are supposed to treat other people like they are literally our family.  That would require, however, an amount of giving ten or a hundred times what Christians are used to.  Sure enough, I seldom hear of entire West Virginia churches trying to raise money for a kid's medical expenses.

You don't live in Europe, I do. Our students do need to take out student loans in order to pay for further education.

give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day-teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a life time
This is called education ergo education is a necessity of life.

[quote]My parents did not die to expect their sons to close to subsidize the college education of strangers.

Family-on-family aid is different than Christian aid, CJ.

When I had cancer in early 1997 and was severely underemployed.....

My mother continued to feed and house me indefinitely, knowing I could not afford my own living unless I was employed at a Master's or at least a Bachelor's level.  Continued, free use of automobile, and subsidized my job search costs.

Later that year I was sharing the rent with Mom when we moved out of the countryside into a city apartment

No, Mom did not touch my medical expenses.  I simply paid the portion not forgiven as long as necessary, and necessary was almost September 1999.

Covenant Baptist Church sent a bag of groceries.

Maybe we are supposed to treat other people like they are literally our family.  That would require, however, an amount of giving ten or a hundred times what Christians are used to.  Sure enough, I seldom hear of entire West Virginia churches trying to raise money for a kid's medical expenses.

A very Christian attitude indeed .

OXFAM USA famers bill
I suggest that you read & digest this.

Chris, are you sure you read the Bible so thoroughly? Do please read the section regarding the man who asked "am I my brother's keeper"? It's not uncommon for local service clubs to have fund-raisers to help parents pay for the cost of medical treatment for their sick child and I note also that there is now a fund-raiser to help the parents pay for the cost of sending their five year old autistic daughter to an AEIOU school.

Our medical costs aren't as extortionate as those in the US either but it's not the fault of the doctors - the USA is such a litigious society that medical insurance premiums for doctors are sky high. There was an episode of South Park that explained the situation perfectly and I wish I could remember what series it was (it would have been one of the earlier ones)

Chris, I just can't understand why you would begrudge Gideon help with his education when the state funded a course for you. Just because Gideon is black, poor, and came from an overseas country doesn't mean he is any less deserving of your care. The fact that he even overcame significant odds to get to the USA to study is much to his credit.

I don't know how to get through that crust of prejudice that mires your mind but I also think that comment of your mum's that you repeated in a previous post was quite silly "those international people, when you give them a radio, then ask for batteries". Well duh! of what use is a radio without batteries?

That's the same mistake some Christians and government agencies made years ago when they supplied farming equipment to some other countries and then got annoyed when some years later, the equipment was sitting rusting in fields. They never thought to train locals in maintaining the tractors etc or about the availability of parts or fuel.

NB: this is not to cast any aspersions against the many excellent grassroots programmes that are being conducted in Asian and African countries to help local communities become self sufficient. It is also a sad fact that in many of these communities, women and girls are the last to be educated.