So I went to the doctor, & I took a few tests for Aspergers.
He says that since I do not have, or ever have had a language disability, I can not have Aspergers or any type of autism... But other than that, most of the other things do seem to be right... (he thinks it OCD + ADD + schizoid)

Opinions? Did all of you have language or speech issues growing up / still?
I dont really like psychiatrists. Not sure I shall return.

I thought that that was pretty much the definition of aspergers syndrome - autism without the speech issues. Maybe your doctor needs to actually look at the diagnostic criteria for aspergers syndrome before he jumps to conclusions.

I had significant delays in developing speech as a small child, and I remember having speech therapy until I was about 9 years old. I think that the way I spoke when I was younger contributed to people (like my 1st grade teacher) thinking that I was mentally retarded.

Now I speak okay, but I have been told that my speaking voice is very flat/monotone. I have a reasonable singing voice but with not nearly enough range to call myself a good singer.

I have no knack for foreign languages whatsoever. I've lived in several non-English speaking countries for extended periods of time (Indonesia, Thailand and Slovenia for a year or more each) and never picked up more than the absolute rudiments of these languages. My ex-girlfriend would learn more of a language during a weekend trip to a new country than I could learn in months of living and working in a country. I am good at committing things to memory, so I can learn the words easily enough, but I have trouble using them meaningfully and so I invariably fail to develop a meaningful grasp of a new language.

I think your psychiatrist is dumb... oh oops, ignorant.

You should look of the defintion of aspergers (ahem no speech delay or caught up fast) print them out (with the references) and show the doctor.  He will (likely) change the dx.  THEN change doctors (it is NOT your job to teach your doctor).

It is (more than) annoying to spend the the time (and money) to get a diagnosis and to have it be incorrect/ incomplete. So maybe don';t let him off the hook for being incompetent. (That said, it usually takes a few times with doctors until you find one that knows what they are talking about - sometimes it takes you knwoing what you are talking about to find the right doctor)

(maybe you are not an aspie - but the reason can't be for what he said.)

Just make sure you are not confrontational with the doctor as he will be writing down what you say... that is why I mention the printout/fact sheets in writing.

I'm not sure what is meant by a "language disability".

Not all aspie have speech problem. I do say the french letter "e" a lot between words, but thats it.

Sorry I think I phrased it wrong / misunderstood. I have a way of always saying exactly what I did not mean..

What he said was that in order to be diagnosed with Aspergers there must have been a language or speech developmental issue affecting communication (not disability), and this in turn has an effect on social interactions. And many other things as well, but this was one of the key points I was lacking.

But from what I have read elsewhere, this is not necessarily true, so I was just curious if anyone else had heard of this. I know that problems with social interactions is a big part of Aspergers, but I dont feel these problems must stem from speech developmental issues.

But I will bring it up next time I see him.

This post was last modified: 07-18-2011 04:23 AM by NotOfThisEarth.

Your doctor sounds even more clueless when you put it that way. He totally has hold of the wrong end of the stick if he thinks that problems with social interactions for people on the autism spectrum are caused by speech issues.

Ask him what diagnostic criteria he is referring to, because it doesn't sound anything like DSM IV.

I think folks are a bit confused. The difference between AS and straight up autism, is speech delay and where that delay is. However to have spectrum disorder like AS, I think you do need to have speech or communication flaws. Whether it would be monotone or a flat voice, pronunciation issues, gaps in speech or something else. I had speech and language issues as a child which I managed as I grew. But to say that AS wouldn't have language problems is something of misconception. It's pervasive disorder, and autism has three criteria, Language, Route Motor and Social Function. To say that you lack language flaws or issues wouldn't make you AS you would have something else, if you got the other two.

The reason we assume that we don't have speech problems is because most aspies are fluently verbal and we have nothing out right noticeable. So we assume that we don't have speech issues or language issues which is honestly incorrect, however this varies person to person.

I don't think he is wrong really, over simplifying yes but I am assuming he's seen autism/AS with small children. I think speech and communication issues IS a big cause of social dysfunction. Not the sole no. But it does contribute when you can't properly relay your feelings, emotions or needs well with speech issues. I've more behavior and social issue from children that can't communicate properly than I do with my peers. We can compensate, kids can't yet. So I think he relaying what he knew from small kiddos.

I think folks are kinda knee-jerky at Psychs, because of their propensity to misDX but I think this time it's a bit unfounded. I don't think the doctor is wrong, but I do think OP needs to step back and see how an AS DX would benefit him and if he really thinks he's on the spectrum. If you believe you might have AS then maybe pursuing isn't going top help. If you KNOW you have AS then see what your insurance can do and look for a specialist.

I disagree. I firmly believe that the doctor involved fails to grasp what Aspergers Syndrome is about.

From the DSM IV diagnostic criteria for Aspergers:

The DSM IV makes no other references to language. So to be diagnosed with aspergers you need to have NOT had any significant general delay in language, but there is no requirement for any speech disability or abnormality whatsoever. So for the doctor to say that there is such a requirement is just plain wrong.

Although he could be using Gillberg's diagnostic criteria (which I don't believe is widely used at all):

My son had no delays in developing speech, and in fact people have very often remarked on how "grown up" his use of language is since he was 2 years old, but looking at Gillberg's criteria he certainly meets (b), © and (e) with bells on. But there is no way that you could say that he has a "language disability", unless you call the seeming inability to ever actually stop talking a disability.

I would be inclined to ask the doctor if he has any previous experience with diagnosing adults. In my case, for example, I would not even know that I had significantly delayed development of speech as an infant if not for a single brief conversation with my mother when I was in my late teens or early twenties.

Language disability (which is not necessary for an aspergers diagnosis) may make a contribution to social difficulties in some cases of autism. But to identify it as a prime causal link (as this doctor seems to be doing) indicates a failure to grasp the nature of aspergers and the autism spectrum. From everything that I have heard, read and experienced, it is the level of dysfunction in non-verbal communication that is the major cause of social difficulties on the autism spectrum.

This post was last modified: 07-19-2011 12:48 AM by 142857.

Language difficulties are key to Asperger's, and the child who talks non-stop is actually displaying the kind of issue which is assessed as part of a diagnosis.  

In his Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome Tony Attwood devotes an entire chapter to Language and he starts the chapter with a quote from Hans Asperger, "They all have one thing in common: the language feels unnatural" before going on to reference Hans Asperger more fully...

"Hans Asperger eloquently described an unusual profile of language abilities that included problems with conversation skills, the 'melody' or flow of speech, and an unusual developmental history for language such as the early or late development of speech.  He also described a tendency for some young children to talk like an adult with an advanced vocabulary and to use quite complex sentences.  Asperger wrote that: 'if one listens carefully, one can invariably pick up these kinds of abnormalities in the language of autistic individuals, and their recognition is, therefore, of particular diagnostic importance.'"

My son's assessment was carried out by the local Community Autism Team, who are all specialised Speech and Language Therapists (SLTs).  My son has an SLT who works with him at school and liaises between school and home.  

It is worth noting that the OP has clarified that the term "language disability" wasn't an accurate statement, and has since said that  "what he (the doctor)  said was that in order to be diagnosed with Aspergers there must have been a language or speech developmental issue affecting communication (not disability), and this in turn has an effect on social interactions."  This is certainly true of my son, and the way in which his speech and language affected his ability to communicate and interact socially was central to his lengthy assessment which included observations of him in various settings.  

My son monologues, he tends to talk at rather than with people, there is very little come and go in conversation (reciprocity), he will carry on talking even when the other person is clearly not interested/doing something else/talking to someone else/not there.  When asked a question he will often answer no, then yes - showing a delay in hearing and comprehending the speech of others.

Tony Attwood acknowledges, and regrets, that DSM-IV and IDC-10 only briefly refer to language abilities, but goes on to say that "The accompanying text to diagnostic criteria in the DSM-IV refers to the way in which the language may be abnormal in terms of the individual's preoccupation with certain topics, verbosity and the failure to appreciate and utilize conventional rules of conversation, and the fact that the child may have a vocabulary that would be typical of an adult.  Unfortunately these characteristics are not included in the DSM diagnostic criteria.  In my opinion, unusual language abilities are an essential characteristic of Asperger's Syndrome and should be included in future revisions of the DSM criteria."

Actually Marcia, you are spot on, and I've gone off half-cocked above. Sincere apologies.

My son's verbal/language capabilities may seem quite advanced, but when you look at the way in which he actually uses language it does seem to be an impediment to communication and social interaction.

Yes, this describes my son very well. My son is also quite happy to carry both sides of the conversation when he is talking to kids who don't speak a word of English.

I've seen discussions on this before - this sense of being "out of sync" with others. I know that I usually feel like I am a second or two "behind" what someone is saying in terms of real comprehension. My niece, who doesn't seem to show any other signs of being on the spectrum, has had therapy for what she and her mum (my half sister) describe as "processing delays".

A point then for NotOfThisEarth:

* The way in which you developed and used speech as a child may have been unusual and this may not be apparent in you as an adult. Unusual speech development may not have been considered particularly noteworthy if you were able to communicate effectively. Has the doctor made any effort to find out what you were like as a child? Does the doctor have any experience in adult diagnoses?

Here is a link about adult diagnosis of aspergers which might be helpful:
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2...and_adults

I'm probably excessively skeptical when it comes to doctors, for reasons that I won't go into here. Your doctor may be right or he may be wrong, but in my experience it pays to respect your doctor's opinion up to a point, but also to be your own advocate and do your own research when it comes to matters of physical or mental health.

I know that "back in the day" many adults thought that kids who didn't "fit the mould" could be fixed with physical and verbal abuse. It was very often thought that there was nothing wrong with you apart from bad parenting, lack of effort, laziness or so on. As an adult you may have adjusted your behaviour in some respects to fit in as is expected of you.

No need to apologise.

This was all in my mind today as my son and I spent the day together doing various different things including a visit to the cinema in the morning and the hospital for a dental x-ray in the afternoon.  He talked incessantly throughout, although he was fairly quiet in the cinema watching the film.  I'm not sure whether he was being particularly verbal, or whether I felt more ground down by it than normal because it was an uncomfortably warm, sultry day.

I would say that the language and associated communication difficulties are becoming more marked as he gets older, and I see him struggling more to communicate with his peers.

I was apologizing to Bardwolf for disagreeing unnecessarily (I don't think I was rude), and to NotOfThisEarth for almost derailing the thread. Perhaps no need, but it can't hurt.

I think that the best thing you can do for your son is to be his friend, and not to trivialize or be dismissive of the struggles he is having. I know that you know that already. Make sure that he knows that it is okay to make friends with the other kids who don't quite fit in, and that they will almost invariably be the best friends of all.

My son craves friendship with other kids, and he is so proud when he makes a new friend that he can't wait to tell me about it or show them to me. At this stage I am hoping that he doesn't have too many problems making friends as he gets older - I think he would be more than happy just being "king of the misfits" when he is a teenager. But I already see that he often lacks the motor skills to play (for example) soccer with other kids his own age, even though he has plenty of stamina and straight-line speed. And he gets upset about that, because he doesn't feel the need to compete with other kids, he just wants friends to play with and talk to.

Yes, my son is also desperate for friends, and has been talking about that quite a lot recently.  Since we moved here in April he's got to know some boys who live nearby and a couple of them came looking for him a couple of times.  Two of them were round here the other night, but my son is quite excitable and quite immature so things don't always go the way he thinks they should and it doesn't always go very well.