I just came on to put my account on away.  My husband is off and we are going to the beach. (with our three kids - anyone have experience with how much time, brain power and energy kids 11, 9, and 8, and a husband etc., consume and still not understand that I am doing my best?)

Who knows how things are taken if someone Pm's me or inquires on a thread and I don't respond.  So, I had 3 PM's and checked out the Bar area where grumpy is serving drinks... the last couple of posts talked about illusion etc.,  

I have heard there were  people "deny" the holocaust. My G*d, that is very wrong, if it is denied it can repeat. If illusion is one of them, this is not the forum for him.  He should be banned.  Perhaps, a questionnaire on other forum group memberships should be given, with hate groups in a couple categories not allowed... or a read this : rules, and sign here ?
Or a "provisional" license to browse and not post in all but a few categories when someone is new, to learn the lingo, or the culture (of AFF)?

I am not going to look up those links, it would be too sad and I don't give those types of sites any traffic.  

I am guilty of thinking that people should be given the benefit of the doubt, and for feeling that people should have the freedom to learn understanding by feeling understanding. On a foorum, and this is my first forum, I am not "vetting" people, I am taking them as they come.

Who knows the age or country of origin, how others come by their ideas and prejudices or bias and how set in them they are? If any of those above accounts are true - though I was brought up to believe nothing that I hear and barely half of what I see. It seems you guys who were looking for the dark and found it.  That is not a skill that I would like to hone.  
I am not ashamed for my so called "support". I did not support or make friends with illusion, I did not ever myself in real or forum conduct treat anyone with prejudice.  But I also did not kick "someone" when he was in the minority.  Equal treatment for all.  I am for freedom and against, being against.
Got to go.
ANd my suggestion for forum help and suggestions, is that when someone puts together 100 words or a thousand, we should all try not to take one sentence out of it and shred it.  No ones words on here canhold up to that kind of scrutiny.  I say that becasue aspies for freedom, as a forum, needs to go back to being open to the fact that people communicate in different ways. AND people are fallible.  

Freedom is my aim, for all.  And yes, Particularly for those on the spectrum, BECAUSE they are in the minority and the minority can get shouted out or steamrolled.  It happens all the time.

Have a lovely time at the beach!

I do know how hard it is to keep a clear mind when trying to follow an internet forum, especially when someone is upsetting people in more than one thread!

I also know how time-and-brain-consuming a family is (hubby and I, both Aspie, have five kids).

However, I am always polite and welcoming to new members (since I was one once!) and the vast majority of new members are nice and polite back. Of course, I am not the only member who is invariably nice to new people - in fact the only person I know who ever greeted a new member (just half an hour after he joined) in a rude manner and suggested he go elsewhere was Lucie1 on this thread. And her victim was only thirteen and never came back.

But Illusion never had the slightest intention of being polite.

He came onto AFF specificaly because it has a "no-discriminatory-post" policy and
accused all the minority groups on here of bullying! He posted links to hate sites and, as he has used the same name all over the internet, it was possible to find out that he really is a neo-nazi, holocaust denying, racist heterosexist - unless, of course, this is a front that he has been hiding behind on every site he has ever visited or been banned from (including Wikipedia).

His hate speech wasn't confined to AFF by any means, or even to one thread. Several threads had to be locked because of his antics.

The Nuerumberg Defence, been used successfully by fools the world over since 1946.

I'm not going to be nice to everybody. If you're going to start your forum career by claiming your hate should be tolerated and accepted as unconventional or controversial, I'm going to start replying that you're a hatemonger and get the hell out.

If you're just a little blunt or hard to follow, I'll give you more time to work out your typing style. In one person's case, I finally came down on him when it became clear no amount of explaining was going to disabuse him of his notion that being rude to people about their beliefs was reasonable.

In your case in particular, I let you know that I was having a hard time following some of your posts, and I disagreed with your apparent support of someone whose views you seemed to be unaware of. Your posts have gotten clearer and your appreciation of who Illusion is seems more informed. I will continue to give you the benefit of the doubt as you seem to be a person who is willing to listen. The other two are stuck in unacceptable positions, and I have no tolerance for their BS.

I want to go to the beach!

I had not realized that there was to be a political doctrine imposed on this message board.  I had not realized this at all.  What next?  Are we to demonstrate "correct" political credentials in all other areas?  Are we to be screened for "incorrect" religious beliefs?  If it is acceptable to screen people to exclude Holocaust denial, where does the imposition of a specific political orthodoxy end?  Are those of us who strongly question the value of government "assistance" to be banned next?  What about people who either oppose or favor state-funded abortion on demand?  Which political viewpoint gets banned here, which ones become official AFF doctrine?  If any political viewpoint results in someone being banned, that certainly means that opposing that political viewpoint is now AFF official doctrine.  If it becomes acceptable to set up one AFF official political doctrine, how does one draw the line against setting up other AFF official political doctrines?

Who here has claimed to be just following orders?

I had no idea he was such a bad troll. MtB mentioned in a post that Il667 had trawled several sites; I never got around to ask how he knew.

I did a post where I mentioned Irving & Faurisson; two infamous revisionists but I got lost from the topic that I was going to address; mainly the revisionism of historic fact. Who writes the history books? I know Faurisson have been charged with some type of crime related to his writings.

I have nurtured the idea of creating a sort of group of volunteers that could serve as welcome squad for new members. It isn't too easy to know who to ask if you're shy and all.

You're not banned for your political beliefs. You're banned for violating the values of AFF. Holocaust denial, if promoted by a poster on AFF - I don't believe it has - would be a subjugation of the memory of about 6 miliion people, and all their descendents. For a forum that rejects the subjucation of another group of people, autistics/aspies, that's bannable. So are statements promoting separation of races and subjugation of gays.

It's not about politics. It's common decency. There's a difference between tolerance of various points of view and absolute neutrality. One says your point of view is different from mine, the other says your point of view is objectively a bunch of hatemongering crap. But give me a break, DogBrain, you know that. You just thought you'd stir the pot a little. Busted!

The Autistic Liberation movement has (as far as I know) no ties to any political philosophies and will therefore be subject to infiltration by any far out supremacists because they are always looking to branch out and find platforms where they can sell their filth.

I think there is a need for clear cut examples of what type of message one are not allowed to publish here. The statement that EvilZakkie wrote for the Homepage might (I actually can't say now) contain something about that AFF as a group does not condone hate speech.

[edit] first paragraph deleted at poster's request [couldbecousin]

This post was last modified: 07-03-2008 01:11 PM by couldbecousin.

Like this, you mean?

like that, yes.

I browsed the Mission Statement on the Homepage and it does not seem to include an overall view on hate speech. Only on derogatory statements meant to demean spectrum people.

While one can not forbid people to subscribe to ideas that are based on the defemation of people on grounds such as sex, creed, sexual orientation, ancestry,... one can however forbid people to air the ideas on this forum.

Yes! So much for my browsing skills...

When on a forum, the only thing that you are able to use as a tool to understand other people are their words.  Nothing more than that.  

Due to that fact, it is very important that words are chosen carefully.  That people post carefully, and take the extra time needed to make sure that their posts are clear, and easy to understand.  While I am sure this is not a "requirement" to post, it is my opinion, and only my opinion, that this is how we should all operate.

If you do take the time to make sure that posts are clear and well-written, to the best of your ability, many questions will not need to even be asked.  If you respond to people when they ask questions of you, and respond as directly as asked, people will not need to ask twice.  No one will be accused of being unresponsive.

If people are spared hints, or innuendo, and people are straightforward and honest, there will not be question of people's intent.  It will all be spelled out right in front of you.  In clear and easy to understand words.

When you place words on a forum for 10,000 people to read them, you should expect that they will be examined.  You should expect that people will give their opinions and thoughts.  If you did not want that to happen, why would you post your thoughts on a forum with 10,000 members.  

People will remove parts from posts and respond to them.  Why post the whole thing again, when you are only responding to one part.  That makes no sense and clogs up the forum.  

People are fallible.  All people communicate differently.  I think that everyone here understands that.  

But no one here will tolerate hate speech.  No one here will be friendly and accepting of people who come on here, and repeatedly post hateful things.  It just will not happen.  And it should not.  

The forum is for people on the spectrum, and their friends, and their family.  If you are going to post here, on the spectrum or not, you should be held to the same standards as anyone else.  Which means, if you are unclear you will be asked to clarify.  If you preach hateful things, you will be asked to cease.  If you are clear, friendly and caring, that will be returned to you.

On an internet forum, ALL WE HAVE ARE YOUR WORDS.

Unkind words against any group are never acceptable here, I understand.  Not against whites like myself.

Though I hasten to add that it is in vogue to say things to a white person you wouldn't say to a black person, or say things to a man you wouldn't say to a woman.  And it seems that the imperfect Christians in society and the people they pick on can dish it out equally well, though I wouldn't ad hominem anybody.

I read a cat litter ad in a women's mag.  The mama cat wants to know which kitten went in the plant.  It was the daddy cat.  Bad daddy cat.

Wild Cherry singing "Play That Funky Music (White Boy)"

Bloodhound Gang, singing Fire Water Burn: "Hi my name is Jimmy Pop and I'm a dumb white guy.... I can take the heat because I'm the other white meat...."

It's bad enough being an Aspie.