Maybe the overlap between 5ness and aspieness is caused by a common tendency (for both 5s and aspies) to use the brain in a serial way (thinking, computer-like, do one thing at a time, orderly) as opposed to using it in a parallel way (feeling, multi-tasking, chaotic). If this theory is true then we would expect that it's unlikely for an enneatype 2 (all feelings, repressed thinking) to be aspie. How does that sound?

I walk. It's so simple but has a big effect. I mean, I've discovered that during walking (not running) I go to 8 and feel very good. So I walk on almost every day that I don't work. For several reasons, I prefer to do that in big cities, so I take a lot of short holidays. And I'm very curious how do you manage to go to 8, Energeia? I hope everybody call still follow this, enneatype 8 is "the leader".
I'm certain I'm a 5 but also have 1, 9 and 8 traits. The 6 happens to me unvoluntarily when people I know are present.  

Regarding the serial vs parallelized use of the brain, or use of thinking function vs feeling function as discriminators....um....I think it's more complex than this for both 5s and aspies. Can't get into it now..I'm on my work lunch break

Actually I thougt the serial vs parallel part was brilliant. No, I'm joking now. But seriously, I really see a lot of serial things in me. For example, I like trains (that's serial, one station following the other, very predictable too). I manage to do my work by putting a lot of small tasks in my agenda, in time (serial again). Aspies, anyone recognizes serial aspects in yourself? Or is multi-tasking (parallel behaviour) not a problem for you? As I see it, a thought is a serial form of a feeling, and feelings are parallel versions of thoughts.

Hmmm...how do I go to 8?  Decide what I want to do and do it.  Ask for permission or forgiveness later

Interestingly, I'm a reluctant leader...I end up in the position more often than I would like either because I'm the person who knows the most about what needs to be done or because I'm willing to do what it takes.  I've been accused of being overly controlling.  I have One-ish tendencies that get exacerbated when I have to go into some sort of organization mode. Sometimes frustrating to self and others.

Oh, I'm mostly a sequential thinker, except for occasional blasts of intuition that reconfigure everything.  I'm happiest at work when I can focus intensely on multistep processes where figuring out the overall best sequences makes sense and also focus on various types of pattern recognition activities.  Unfortunately, that particular job description has ended, and I'm now supposed to be multitasking and I'm always exhausted.  It was amazing to me how I would work 70 hour weeks no problem when I was in focus mode and how, now, I can barely work 30.  But, I don't think you can generalize this to all aspies or fives.

Hmmmm..this sounds really deep, Five, but I don't understand what you mean
Define: feeling
Do you mean emotions?  Valuations?  Sensations?

[Decide what I want to do and do it.  Ask for permission or forgiveness later

That's the same for me, probably because we're the same enneagram type, and nothing to do with Aspies.

That's my main contribution in my job. I'm good at planning, which is: putting tasks in a row (serial, or another word would be: linear). My guess is, many aspies are good with sequences (computer programming for example), which is serial. Talking about linear, is there a preference amongst aspies for straight lines, sharp edges instead of curves? Imagine you are selecting a new car.

Oh, but I think we can generalize the exhaustion to a certain degree. What kind of 5 are you (selfpreservation, sexual, social)? (Me: selfpreservation). My hypothesis is that selfpreservation fives and aspies have in common that they both use the brain in a serial way. Parallel behaviour such as communicating with people takes a lot of energy. See it as being forced, by biology, to using 1 channel (serial). Email is 1 channel (no sound, no visual contact, only written text, which is a sequence of letters and words (serial)). Face to face communication is multi channel (parallel), because there's body language, sound, intonation, words, visual contact and maybe physical contact (and maybe fear). For me, that's exhausting (not always). Another example of 1 channel (serial): narrow interest, few special interests. Another example of parallel: learning how to drive a car (steering, looking, accelerating etc.). My guess is that many aspies had difficulties learning how to drive, or learning sports/body movements because that requires a parallel brain.

I mean thinking as in the enneatype 5, 6 and 7. And feeling as in type 2, 3 and 4. Not sensations. I don't mean fear or anger or love, it's hard to define, I mean the feeling triad. If reality is a whole, and through our limited brains we perceive reality as dualities, then opposites are not real. For example, we say hot and cold exist, but really there is only temperature. If something we can´t observe expresses itself in a parallel way, we call it a feeling. If it expresses itself in a serial way, we call it a thought.

The enneagram is symmetrical. It really is one, but it looks as if there is a left side and a right side. But these sides are not opposities. They are complementaries, they are one.

To bring this back to the subject of this forum, my hypothesis is that Aspies are at the serial end of the range, and have difficulty with parallel things. For example, meanings are parallel. A serial brain doesn´t see all meaning which exists, as can become depressed easier than average. Again, this is my hypothesis, not a proven fact.

I doubt that a parallel brain sees all meanings that exist either.  Don't know why a "serial" brain would get depressed more easily than a "parallel" brain. Unless, maybe, your thinking is that depression constitutes an inability to adequately process feelings. But anyways, you're raising interesting questions...maybe repost it as a new thread, so more folks will read and respond to it, as I'm guessing that many have tuned out on this thread?  (soc variant speaking here, HA!)
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Back to your other comments...(so nice to have someone be interested in something I'm interested in, yeah!!!!)

1. I definitely have a preference for straight lines rather than curves. Comes out in my art and I've seen this as something I need to work on. Funny you should bring this up.

2. Re: variants.  Soc first.. probably soc/sp/sx....I think the last two have switched as I've gotten older.  I probably also have a heavier 6 wing than you.

3. Re: driving...I don't do it.  I drove for 2 years and hated it.  If I lived in the country, it'd be okay (and necessary) but I live in a city so walk and use public transport and it's okay.  

4.  Sequential and parallel processing...yeah, I tune out some of the channels, like body language and emotions.  Over-attention paid to verbal. It'd be interesting to know how common this is for 5s.

5.  enneagram--I'm still learning the system and find aspects of it somewhat confusing.  Which authors do you like best?  (I think Richard Rohr gives a good description of 5s...better than, say, Palmer.  But not as good a description of 6.)  Use of "thinking" and "feeling" is problematic, imo, because the terms have so many different definitions (e.g. colloquial, mbti, other psychology etc).  I really don't "get" your association of thinking with linearity and feeling with parallelarity.   I think you're trying to force a schema that might suffer from oversimplification.

I just read the thread "Musings of a NTishAspie or AspieishNT or Something". I'm impressed by the attitude of many people on this forum, so helpful and understanding, and let's not forget the humour.

I guess my skills to keep this thread open to everybody aren't very good, and maybe the subject has become to specialistic for others to join in.

It's the latter, I think. Give it a couple of years maybe, and they'll be a forum for aspie 5s (Or, if you were feeling really brave, you could pose some of your questions on the EIDB.  Might make for an interesting discussion....or not)

I don't totally understand, either.  I think soc/sx is a real possibility for me but the folks on the EIDB aren't convinced.  Probably what's most true is that I like to go deep with people in conversations (small talk...UGH) and like to have longstanding friendships.  The sex thing...too messy...and this could be an aspie response, e.g., not liking the sensation, say, of moisture on skin, or various odors. I'm definitely not Sx first.....I would find exclusive one-on-one focus to be too limiting.  Sp stuff...I manage it, but don't find it interesting.

I've read you don't have TV. Guess what, I don't have a TV either. My collegues don't understand it at all. This can be related to fives. I know someone else without a TV, and she's a 5 (I know conclusions about this require a statistical approach).

For me...TV has too much stimulation.  It's like speed or something...especially the commercials. I haven't been in the homes of enough clear-cut 5s to do my own statistical analysis. I also don't have a car or a cell phone or an ipod or DVD player -- it's a wonder how I manage to function

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?
Re: tests...there are links in a sticky thread in the Diagnosis forum.  The rdos one (asperger quiz) goes into different categories that you might find interesting.  I found the Baron-Cohen one frustrating because of the cultural stereotypes involved with empathizing and systemizing.  The msnbc one is pretty good, as I recall--assays for certain predilections and behaviors.

Like you, though, I wonder how much is 5ness and how much aspieness. Right now, I'm curious about how many aspies have that delayed feeling reaction (feeling as emotion) that is often characteristic of 5s. And "sensory overload" could be one reason why 5s need and want a ton of "alone time."  Like you said at the beginning of this thread, I think there's a lot of overlap.

Re:  how aspieish you are. One thing you can do is maybe talk with your parents to get a sense of what you were like as a young child. And also look at the various ways you have learned compensatory behaviors.  (E.g., for me, taking, and then teaching, listening skills classes where we learned to ask open questions, paraphrase, etc was incredibly helpful.)

I hope you don't mind I've read a few of your posts to see what your type is. There's a big chance you're a 7. You have humour and produce many posts, and you like fun. You bend the rules (speeding limits for driving) (all type 7). Be aware that type 7 is linked to 5, under safe conditions, and to 1, under stress. You make few typing errors, and correct other's typing errors and seem to be in control of yourself (type 1). You are interested in science (type 5). I honestly hope you don't mind me writing such personal things about you. The following may not sound very scientifically to you. How do you laugh? 7s laugh a lot, with sound, in a non-agressive way.

Thanks very much for your quick and long response. You understand correctly what the problem is, "going out of the comfort zone" are exactly the words my boss uses. Nice to hear I'm not the only one having sometimes arguments with the boss. I'm not giving too much details about my job because the whole world can read this and I don't want to be recognized. The company rules prescribe that also for people with good performances during performance reviews a developmental need has to be identified. The progress in an employee's development is part of a monthly meeting, so he will not forget this. Because of his 1 wing, he fully supports this company policy. If I would say I don't want to develop further, well not at work, that's not in compliance with the company policy. My resistance is already bothering him, he's saying that I'm not very grateful for him trying to help me. But he's destroying me, more or less. He's basically a good guy (9) though. Thanks again. Running out of time now...

Actually, the performance evaluation is annually and the follow up on action items from the evaluation is part of a monthly meeting.

Right, I'll have to keep that in mind and talk to him when he's in "9 mode".

How do you determine people's enneatype? Apparently you have determined your boss' type. I watch the frequency, and the volume and the type of their laughter, and have discovered a strong correlation between ways of laughing and enneatype.

INTJ I believe (that's the right test, right?).

I spent not more than 5 minutes, honestly. The posts I read were just a small random selection. I apologize if my post bothered you.

Natalie--suggest you read through various descriptions of types 1 and 5 to see if either of them seems like a good fit....if you care to know more, that is.

For example, at 9types.com,
http://www.9types.com/descr/5/
http://www.9types.com/descr/1/
(and on the left side of these pages, check out the links to E-gram transform)

Maybe an aspie trait in me, seeing patterns.

Wow, fascinating! I don't know whether in English the proverb is the same, but it's something like: people laugh about others, but real wise people can laugh about themselves. It has do with being able to take a distance from themselves. This is a confirmation of what I said in one of my earlier posts: very healthy.
Zen masters can laugh about themselves.

Wings can be +1 or -1 from the main type only.
For example, a 3 can have a 4 wing, a 2 wing or no wing. These are the only possibilities.
See it as a rainbow, where a person can be purely red or a little bit mixed with an adjacent color. But red a little to the greenish side is impossible. At least, that is if green and red are not neighbouring colors in the rainbow, I'm not sure...

Hi, Athlynne. The enneagram can help tremendously to understand yourself and others.

Imagine you enter a room full of people, and what would be your first thought. A person of the self preservation variant would be aware of the temperature, the availability of food etc (well, I do ). A sexual variant would first of all be aware of attractive persons. A social variant would focus more on the hierarchy, on groups. This text is very short, and an over-simplification, but maybe it can help to verify whether the self-preservation variant is correct for you.

Apparently type 5 has a high probability but the wing is uncertain (4 wing, no wing or 6 wing).
5s and 6s prefer thinking. So ask yourself, would I call myself a thinker. 4s prefer feeling.
One of the differences between 4s and 5s is (this is an over-simplification!) that in 5s feeling supports thinking (example: a person loves an idea, a thought, a concept). In 4s it's the other way around, thinking supports feeling (example: a person is analyzing why she has a certain feeling). Doing is repressed, plays a minor role in 4s and 5s. I'm not saying they are inactive or lazy. Doing is just not their primary focus. But actually it is more complex than that.
Too keep this post short: 6s, unlike 4s and 5s, repress thinking, although they are thinkers (this might be confusing). This makes 6s people who are uncertain, who doubt, who can be anxious.

Maybe I try to explain too much in too few words. I hope it is useful.

SEEING. Thinking is a poor substitute for seeing.

In the text below, it stays hard to separate what is 5s in general and what is specific me.

Seeing in an inner direction: insight, in a few occasions even a little insight beyond words. I try to see beyond concepts, try to see existence as it really is, and am many times unsuccessfull in that. To me, the "beyond concepts" thing is 5 although it's probably mentioned nowhere in the enneagram books. In my opinion, a lack of seeing concepts is what makes 5s so similar to aspies. Animals have the same. I'm aware I'm using too few words to make myself clear and what I mean by concepts.

Seeing in an outer direction: watching, observing (people).

Frequently retreat into isolation.

Very high need for privacy.

A feeling I'm alone in this world.

Excessive reading (at this moment this forum keeps me from doing that). Although I'm aware not all 5s read a lot.

Collecting (books).

I lack knowledge. My lack of knowledge sometimes can make daily life difficult.

-------------------------------------------------------

Enneatype 5 describes my mind only. I'm not my mind, and I'm not my body. I am consciousness. That's my conclusion from what I've read, and the challenge is to see it as a real fact.

Now, if all of you were still doubting, you now know certain I'm nuts.
Maybe I'm a weird philosopher. Weird: aspie again. By the way, you see all the "maybe"s? That's my 6 wing.

Energeia, what kind of 6 wing do you have? Is your 6 wing  1-ish (feeling supports doing) or 2-ish (doing supports feeling)?

I'm guessing that this could be true. It might be easier for 5s to make the aspie traits work for them. And the converse might also be true. For example, the aspie drive to honesty and the naivete makes me more open than the typical 5.  There's a liberating "who really cares what other people think" attitude.

Actually, I agree with all of your conclusions.

And I'm not wholly convinced that I'm a 5--lots of 1 and 8 and 6 traits in me--I've wondered with aspieness would do to an 8.  The people who both know the enneagram and have met me in real life (6 of them) have all but one thought I was a 5 (the other one thought I could be a 7).

Thanks, "work for them" is indeed better than my "struggle less with". It's not exactly the same.

Intellectually I know that that is great, but I still fail often, I do care. I see it not only as a positive trait but also as a growth and a sign of health. I see it as that you have grown further than me (but hey, you've had more time to grow since you're older.)

Energeia, what I, as a 5, have is a longing to understand. The word desire is too weak, I like the word longing better. A longing to understand existence or life or whatever you want to call it. Let's say I'm a seeker. Your signature "I'd like to know what this whole show is all about before it's out" suggests to me, I might misunderstand, that it is meant in a serious way and is meant before death, and that you have that longing to understand too. If you have this then in my opinion that confirms you are a 5 (well, nobody is a five, everbody is unique). I'm curious, have you found out ("what this show is all about")? But maybe your signature was meant insignificantly or as a sort of joke. If my question about this "show" is too personal and private, just ignore this post and don't respond. No problem at all . My guess is this show is not at all about possessions, activities or relationships. It is about being yourself (I haven't thought of that last short sentence myself, I've read it, I'm not that wise, not yet ). I should keep my posts lighter .

Possibly. Also: many Aspies have type 5 characteristics, and type 5 is seen by society more a male type of mind.

I think Gurdjieff was gifted. He had great people skills and a big sense of humour. I think he was an enneagram type 8 who became enlightened.

I know nothing about Meher Baba, but I'm going to find out.

Why do you think Gandhi was a great soul? He was anti-technology, that doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

About Sai Baba in India: there are 2 Sai Baba's but I assume you mean the more recent person. I see him as an illusionist, not a master. Are you really convinced Sai Baba is authentic?

I have read "The Secret" by Osho. Probably you refer to another book with the same name. Who are the authors?

About believing in the enneagram: I see the enneagram as a model, not as a reality. But a model which is very useful for me, which works well. To understand myself and others, to avoid unnecessary conflicts.

Hi energeia. I didn't know there was a conference coming. Somehow my focus is still much more on books than the internet.
I can't find this conference by Google. Do you have a link? Just to look at the program, California is too far away for me.

This site has free tests: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/
I found my type by reading the type descriptions in books instead of doing a test. Not every author gives an equally good description of the types. A part of the texts is nonsense.
To determine type, ask yourself 2 questions and read the type descriptions with the answers in your mind:
How do I behave to get what I want (retreat, demand agressively, co-operate etc.).
How do I behave when there is a problem (ignore the problem, confirm there is a problem but saying it is not your problem, solve it logically, respond emotionally etc.).

In another forum, people try to type other people by photo only. I'm convinced you need to observe behaviour too, a picture is not enough, there will be high percentage of error.
It is fun, when I meet someone new, and shake hands, I observe their way of smiling and guess their type, to confirm it in the following minutes by other data. You cannot "not behave" or "not communicate". But ultimately you yourself are the best to determine your type without error. Aspie traits will interfere with other personality traits and can give false conclusions. But I'm convinced that despite that, the enneagram is still very useful for everybody.

Looks very interesting. Seeing the names of the speakers maybe they will also talk about other applications of the enneagram (other than psychology/personality).

Yes, I meant the guy formerly known as Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, now known as Osho. I considered starting a thread about him but there is no connection with Aspieness and I expect too few people would be interested.

5s and 6s are both thinkers but in a different way. The thinking of 6 works well for the outside world but less for their insides. 6s in a way don't trust what they think. 6s ask the opinions of others. 6s are more conformists. 5s are more independent, more non-conformist. 5s can take a standpoint and defend that even if the whole world has another opinion. 6s are more focused on co-operation. 5s are more loners. Hope that helps to determine whether your type is 5 or 6.
The wing behaviour you only show in certain circumstances. My 6 wing starts working when other people are present. That's why I can co-operate and am not unemployed. But at same time my 6 wing causes me to be not at ease at work.

A 1 sees something (objects, people, circumstances, documents) as not perfect and focuses on improvement. To exaggerate: if you give a text to a 1 he immediately sees where the errors are. For a 1 imperfect can be the same as wrong. If the improvement focuses on people a 1 can be a great teacher. 1s are full of "shoulds", focus on ideals, put high demands on themselves. A 1 would be a good judge. A 5 cares much less about improvement, focuses more on innovation. A 1 is more a doer than a 5. A 5 is a thinker.
A 9 wing can put you more at ease with the current situation, relaxed, less focus on doing.

With reference to our contact by private message, I will start a separate thread about Osho to avoid mixing with the subject of the enneagram in this thread. Maybe others are interested in him too. I will start the thread tomorrow (if I can access this site) and respond to your questions.

As a part of my job, I'm looking for spelling errors (not in English, though). So that would match - great!

Under safe circumstances you should see a shift from "an environment which is affecting you" to "you influencing the environment/people" (5 to 8). If you know this, you can use it and turn it around: start influencing the environment and as a result feel more safe (5 to 8). That's the opposite of withdrawal.
Under safe circumstances you can relax, let go, focus more on trivial things, want to avoid conflicts (6 to 9).

Under stress you could be mentally very active, having the idea there isn't enough time (5 to 7).
Under stress you become more selfconscious, worry about what people think of you (6 to 3).

Can you just post it all in a nutshell..<G> liek 1, 2, 3, 4,5,? <G>

This is how I scored...
You are most likely a type 1.

Taking wings into account, you seem to be a 1w2.
Type 1 - 12
Type 6 - 10
Type 3 - 8.3
Type 2 - 8
Type 5 - 8
Type 8 - 6.3
Type 4 - 6.3
Type 9 - 3.7

Wing 1w2 - 16
Wing 6w5 - 14
Wing 2w1 - 14
Wing 1w9 - 13.8
Wing 5w6 - 13
Wing 3w2 - 12.3
Wing 2w3 - 12.2
Wing 3w4 - 11.5
Wing 5w4 - 11.2
Wing 6w7 - 11
Wing 4w3 - 10.4
Wing 4w5 - 10.3
Wing 9w1 - 9.7
Wing 8w9 - 8.2
Wing 8w7 - 7.3
Wing 9w8 - 6.8

Best type?  Says YOU!

Everybody has all types in themselves. It will be most healthy to become balanced, to use thinking, feeling and doing, all three of him. I have to remind myself of that, I cannot "think" my house clean . See a type as a sort of innate preference.

Actually you, like everybody, are a unique human being who cannot be put into a category. But I'm convinced the enneagram is very useful as a model. Part of the texts in books and internet is nonsense and looks like horoscope stuff. I think the essential part will survive and will be proven to be scientific.

Yetti, I apologise if this post is too personal. From your first posts I thought "that's an 8 (leader)". Sorry, I automatically type people, not only at this forum, but I can imagine people not liking that. I still think now you're an 8.

From your photo, especially the young one, you radiate a certain strength (I realize I'm becoming less scientific now). Strong = 8.

An 8 sees the world from the point of view of doing (the other 2 possibilities are: thinking and feeling).

For an 8, feeling will be repressed. Take that positively. Your response to bullies is not: starting to cry. 8s can be rather hard. Except when they feel really safe with a loved one, then they drop their hard shell.
The 2 things left concerning internal processing are: doing and thinking. For an 8 that is thinking supports doing (not the other way around, not doing supports thinking).

So first, seeing the world from doing, and secondly, inside it is doing supported by thinking, that is all about doing! So 8s feel invincible. A can do attitude. Allrounders. They tend to overestimate their capabilities. And indeed you seem to be able to do anything, and want to learn what you cannot do yet. 8s like to help the underdog. I can write much more but leave it at this.

My guess is you would recognise much of yourself in Gurdjieff. Read "Meetings with remarkable men" by Gurdjieff. It's difficult to read a page without laughing.

Yes. Probably the whole rest of this day I will be thinking about that again. To modify the model I have in my head. To put aspieness into it.

Balance IS the KEY . I totallly agree!

I think you hit my personality on the head... you are right.. that is me!  I will read it.. thanks for the recommend.  Do write more... I think you have come closer than anyone to my personality. I am amazed.. no I am not upset in the slightest.. Ialso try to learn my shortcomings... but isn't that typical of someone like me.. I can't have my weak links cause  problems... its like a hole in the boat.. Do continue.. I am enjoy it.. <ego> <G>

I think you hit my personality on the head... you are right.. that is me!  I will read it.. thanks for the recommend.  Do write more... I think you have come closer than anyone to my personality. I am amazed.. no I am not upset in the slightest.. Ialso try to learn my shortcomings... but isn't that typical of someone like me.. I can't have my weak links cause  problems... its like a hole in the boat.. Do continue.. I am enjoying it.. <ego> <G>

See that doesn't resonate with me,because I am not totally like that.. I am more balanced. I do think I am what 5 states.. the test I had some questions I was not sure of.. so it was really hit or miss and felt my answers did  not match the questions...
I am more known for being nice according to my husband.. people trust me and come ot me for help ,but by the same token if they try my patience or attack, I am quite capable of biting their heads off like a preying manthis.  I can usually spot an agenda...with folks.. if they are sincere and really need help , I am their best friend ,but if there is overwhelming evidence of some Ne'er do well motive.. My sword is there.. I do not put up with it.....

I have more friends than enemies.. but my enemies keep their distance <G>

I will try to get him to take it... He is recovering from hand surgery.. I may have to type his replies... But I think you are on target.. we compliment each other and it works..  We do butt heads on certain issues and he is very very passive agressive....  I am a MAC person and he is PC...we do not discuss this in our home without major shouting matches <G> Yes that is the only topic we do that.. so we have a policy we don't discuss. I have both pc and MAC in our homes... <G>  Our daughter tells people.. do not bring up the MAC/PC debate around us LOL..

I am definitely an 8 then... as I stated I have more friends than enemies.. and I RARELY let people down...  IF I do , I punish myself unmercifully. My husband testifies to this...  He loves my loyalty and that I do everything to make our lives wonderful.. he does tooo... our daughter said our relationship has always inspired her.... It took her a while to see her fathers passive agressive trait but she eventually saw it when I let her handle any challenges iwth him... so she sees the balance... and its seems to work...My husband and I both love law and both went to law school.  He is a practicing attorney very successful.. he is a scientist and very good and brilliant.. I am good at all those too. he is not good at visual art... or athletics..  But we ar both excellent with animals...

I am definitely an 8. I don't identify with the harshness of ones.. my husband is here and agrees.  I have too many friends and people wanting to be my friend... That is why I did not go into theatre.. people wanting to meet me after performances... touching... I am great on stage but can't handle crowds or people wanting to meet me and relate as a person.. its overwhelming... I love doing a good job.. I don't like crowds of admirerers... who want to get close.

My husband agrees with you analysis 5.

My husband and I both said Yes. LOL he is getting sick of the questions )

I am Definitely an 8! That is me....  Yes!  


My husband said he is totally aware of the Barons test.. finds it also like a palm reader <G> He does not stock value in these tests... <G>

When I am passionate about something... i surround myself with it... if I am not, it does not exist.  

My husband loves all the attention I give him and I love giving it.. He is very supportive of me and loves to help me... its seems to work very well... and balances us as a couple.. plus we have so much in common.

I agree about Harry Potter!

If you know yourself well, you can avoid unnecessary misery. If you know other people well you can avoid conflicts and make communication much easier. Every type has a pinch, a button you don't want to push. If I know a person's type, I know what not to do. And I know what to do.
For example a 4, don't ignore a 4. Respond to email immediately.
The worst thing you can do to 5s is to break confidence.
Don't critize a 1.
Give 2s a compliment.
The list is endless.
Common 8 pinches: Injustice; Not dealing directly with issues; People not taking responsibility for their own behaviour; Another's lack of truthfulness. And I know what to say to every type when they have been pinched.

What about the value in giving feedback; in forming effective teams.  

You argue with him.. I am not going to! LOL....

.. but then again.. I am good with people who are dictators.. I can play their game.. I don't battle for who is king of the mountain unless my odds are good.. I weigh the individual situation.. I am a good team player..but I do take my place if I can to be the leader, more than my husband.

Exactly. And under stress 8s behave more like 5s, become more silent and introvert, start thinking instead of doing.

my husband loves that I take care of him.. his mother said he is spoiled... he does not take care of himself  unless I lead...  His brother is the same way......My sister in law is like me but we are totally different in interests and what is right and wrong.. but she has the same relationship with my husbands brother. ... I think their mom is right.....my daughter gets upset with him about this, especially when I have been phsycially ill.  I do worry about him if I die.  I told my daughter to be close to him should that happen...

Yup.. in HS my teachers told my mom, they did not even know I was in the classroom.  My friends would say yeah until you get to  know her then she never shuts up! LOL They said that lovingly of course. <G>  My two sides are very evident... I watch and wait... I ahve to be comfortable with the people I am around, until then, I perform or I am very quiet... once I am comfortable my 8 comes out esp in sports.

.. but then again.. I am good with people who are dictators.. I can play their game.. I don't battle for who is king of the mountain unless my odds are good.. I weigh the individual situation.. I am a good team player..but I do take my place if I can to be the leader, more than my husband.

There are 3 variables:

1. Type. For you 8 without a wing.

2. Instinctual variant: for you relational (or sexual). Not self preservation, not social. It's obvious, your posts contain references to sex.

3. Level of health. You being very healthy and very intelligent explains the quote above.

Yetti Wrote:

.. but then again.. I am good with people who are dictators.. I can play their game.. I don't battle for who is king of the mountain unless my odds are good.. I weigh the individual situation.. I am a good team player..but I do take my place if I can to be the leader, more than my husband.

There are 3 variables:

1. Type. For you 8 without a wing.

2. Instinctual variant: for you relational (or sexual). Not self preservation, not social. It's obvious, your posts contain references to sex.

3. Level of health. You being very healthy and very intelligent explains the quote above.

All we know it works for us.. we are very happy, that does not mean we never disagree.. we each have our strong opinions... and we have major political debates... choice of computer is an issue not discussed in this house for obvious reasons <G> We will butt heads.

as empty nesters we took off where we left off when our daughter was born.. and we had 7 yrs of being married iwth no children and love our time alone together too....  Some vacations we love together, some we do not... I dive, he sails... We try to work our vacations together because we love being around each other.. one day is fine but by the 3rd day... we miss each other... and make tons of phone calls.
We both loves dogs and love our dogs sleeping with us.. my husband says one big dog pile! LOL.

The one who remains behind will have a difficult time.. we will probably move near our daughter to be with our grandkids.  We are all very close.

Energeia, maybe your high score in 8 might be related to a relatively stressfree childhood?

This house believes in balance.. something I taught my daughter.. balance body, mind, and soul.

Our new house has an indoor pool to do laps via current fast lane.. we have a gym and a portable massage table.. we have one theraputical massage a month... we have about 75% azurlite glass and our front balcony projects into the branches of an oak tree.. like a tree house...  We designed our new house for our empty nestdom for our health... we live near all our needs via walking... and I have a bult in aquarium in the bedroom wall which separate the sitting area from the bedroom ... and have aquariums which work into the design of the house all over.. I am into fish.. I also have lots of sphere 3'd/2'd painting I have done... the aquariums are like minimalist art work of shapes  ..

We do believe in harmony..  iT is also fully automated... with many skylights and glass mosaics.. esp in the bath area and pool room.. the shower from the gym goes into the indoor pool room where nana doors can open it to the outside on good days and 3 huge automatic skylights which open to the sky..

Being an aspie , I am really into natural light... We even have an alarm that starts an hour early with a blue light which takes an hour to fullly come on before our alarm comes on....

I felt we worked ourselves when we were young to be able to afford a lifestyle condusive to healthy living at home in the middle of our metropolis... Its our private aspie compound... electronic gates , entries etc.. front has natural shrubs as privacy walls.

I imagine that there will be several people who have done this at the enneagram conference I'm attending soon.  I'll inquire, if the subject seems to come up.  How did they do it? What challenges do they face?  And I'll bet most of the consultants or therapist-types aren't 5s.

Re: line to 8.  I attribute this more to aspieness--I'm missing some of the filters often associated with type 5. My childhood was physically stressful--painful and annoying but non life-threatening health issues.  Emotionally I was fine until about age 12 or so, and then not again until my late 20s or so.

All the data we have, although limited, suggests 9 only. Female 8s usually don't like male 2s, but like male 5s, 6s and 9s, that's another clue. So likely 9, not 2.

I thought sx first because Yetti mentioned sex related subjects in her posts. In one of the links there are 3 descriptions of 8s (sp, sx and soc), Yetti can check. Why do you think otherwise?

Maybe the strong 1 score is evidence that the tests don't give reliable scores for Aspies, too high scores on 5 and 1.

OMG... my husband and I are not insulted in the least.. Goodness. There is nothing on the net that really insults us . Often when I write or speak someone may think I have intense emotion behind it.. I don't . I tend to be very energy oriented with passion.. I do think it comes from my theatre... which do use in my lectures... I love multimedia and performances and exchange..


I tend to be very tactical... my husband does too.. its hard to get our goat.. esp together.. we take the world like two divers surfacing.. back to back and shark poles in front . <G>

I think this is thought provoking and fun. My husband thinks its fun and not to be taken seriously.

After 33 yrs.. we have had people try to break our marriage or attack us. IT amazes us that our marriage by its very existance is an affront to so many people.. He and I chat about it after these encounters and often try to figure out why these people have such a need.  We have gotten to the point we enjoy to see them get all bent out of shape over our happiness.. WE stopped trying to figure out why!  We need entertainment <G>

IN the early days I almost had to take an optomitrist office to court because they refused to stop using MRS.  since I kept my last name.  In our state we Choose our own titles or none at all.. This was always a battle at the beginning of our marriage...

and the number of people who tried to make sexual advances towards us.. we always came home and told the other about it... It bothered some we were inseparable.  I think because he and I were the black sheep in our respective famillies and we loved it.. Black sheep who have something in common with you are rare indeed!  We were jewels to each other...

My husband is what he is.. He is charming, loving, but lives in his own world too... but people gravitate to him, especially women... One judge I worked with saw him outside the lawschool with circle of women around him.. and asked me "Arent you worried about the women?" I said"NAH! as long as they are standing outside in a circle LOL I was use to it and I know , my husband would NEVER find anyone like me! "

Our door to our marriage is not locked (this does not mean sex..we are faithful). We are not possessive but very trusting, but once one leaves, it never reopens... We are very loyal to each other and see ourselves our best friends, lovers , etc.. our child bonds us even more. We can't wait to be grandparents...  

What is amazing and I muse myself... my husband was so skinny in HS and he was not popular as he was a nerd... Now all those women look at him for his Bankaccount and success and wonder what they missed..you can see it in their eyes.. and how they treat him now..  I saw his beauty the first moment i met him in my last year in college and viceversa.. I thought him to be very handsome and still think that today, inside and out.

We worked very hard to always communicate . I had a rule we never go to bed angry, and I always hugged and kissed my family... because I never knew if something could happen to them.. I wanted them to feel love and trust. Consequently we are very close as a family unit.

So maybe the relational 9, see
http://www.9types.com/descr/baron2.html

It sounds like him but he does not blame others for things... but He does not privy me always to his throught process... he will relay the results but not how he thinks...  and I am good with that.... And he loves being a part of a group yes... I do not... <G> HE use to think I was hurt by walking off to be by myself, since I learned I am an aspie.. he is relieved to know I actually enjoy myself alone with me , myself and I.. a group I love being with...  Learning I am an aspie has helped.. now he knows I love being alone unless I ask to go...

I told him when I am alone, me , myself and I have a Parteee and we open teh champaigne bottle and swing on the chandliere! <G>

It sounds like him but he does not blame others for things... but He does not privy me always to his throught process... he will relay the results but not how he thinks...  and I am good with that.... And he loves being a part of a group yes... I do not... <G> HE use to think I was hurt by walking off to be by myself, since I learned I am an aspie.. he is relieved to know I actually enjoy myself alone with me , myself and I.. a group I love being with...  Learning I am an aspie has helped.. now he knows I love being alone unless I ask to go...

I told him when I am alone, me , myself and I have a Parteee and we open the champaigne bottle and swing on the chandliere, all 4 of us! <G>

I do love my time alone!  Its called solitude.. but I can get lonely and that time I seek friends etc..

Well I have learned Aspies are all differenteven your 1-9 ers.. We have so many other characteristics..

yes itsn't it amazing.. My husband and I compare notes when it happens... and discuss it.  He gets amused when people attack me for keeping my last name... that does not happen any more but it did 33 yrs ago.  Yes, people to our faces claimed our respect for each others and allow each otehr to travel alone as well as together as against GOD! LOL   AND then you get the youngsters who think they know everything.. its like gun fighters... They try to compare  their marriage to yours and hope to see misery..  Sad isn't it.!  Even former close friends of mine!   People can be conniving and evil and insecure.  We have been encountered by all kinds 33 yrs..

My husband is really the most successful of his HS class and several classes... He was considered a major nerd... Sweet kind nerd, they loved but never saw as any potential.  I saw something totally different and still do..

Several women have tried to make a pass at him.. as some men have done to me... we always tell each other...   One woman , the wife of his best friend from HS and college made a pass at him at the last reunion and then made a pass at ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  My husband was standing right there witnessing it.. it was not my imagination... We got a laugh out of that.. it was his best friends second wife...  Some people just can't pick the right people to marry I guess or whatever... It doesn't bother us, but we get a hoot out of people.. especially when they challenge our marriage...

We are black sheep and we like it!   And we produced a little black lamb who is engaged to a black lamb..   Yes we are a Bleeting family LOL

As a Deist, I do believe people MAKE their own misery.. You know.. I love being an aspie... I just wish I knew decades ago so I could have changed some of my thinking or refine it... I still have time

I do want to help other aspies... This will be interesting... we shall see what comes of this all..   I do believe our educational system s*cks royally.

My husband is dynamic in his own right... so am I.. we are very independant and we support each others individualism... we do not try to change ourselves but come to a comfort zone of team work when we need to and want to... We like it and cannot imagine being married to anyone else.. It works for us.

Now I really don't understand it! I think trying to figure out individuals with so many layers to their personality is like trying to "nail Jello to a wall".

Yetti, I had you figured for an 8 in your first few posts at AFF. Some people would say "takes one to know one."

There's such a thing as an "Eight style" and it's usually hard to miss. (Though sometimes a particularly problematic 1 or a counter-phobic 6 can look a lot like an 8 on the surface.)

You probably don't agree with everything in the 8 descriptions, but 8's seldom do. One thing that sometimes makes it hard for 8's to see themselves as 8's is that they are not really great at self-awareness. Plus, their favorite defense is Denial. (They especially deny being short on self-awareness. )

I am not denying.. I am simply NOT understanding! I do think I am an 8 but not all the features... we humans are very complex and use what we need and depends how we develop.. esp at my age.. I am PLAID! LOL

I have peopel here swearing I am a one.. and in the next post swear I am an 8.... as I said.. I am PLaid.. just depends on the tartan mix <G>

Max the Bear Wrote:

Yetti, I had you figured for an 8 in your first few posts at AFF. Some people would say "takes one to know one."

There's such a thing as an "Eight style" and it's usually hard to miss. (Though sometimes a particularly problematic 1 or a counter-phobic 6 can look a lot like an 8 on the surface.)

You probably don't agree with everything in the 8 descriptions, but 8's seldom do. One thing that sometimes makes it hard for 8's to see themselves as 8's is that they are not really great at self-awareness. Plus, their favorite defense is Denial. (They especially deny being short on self-awareness. )

I am not denying.. I am simply NOT understanding! I do think I am an 8 but not all the features... we humans are very complex and use what we need and depends how we develop.. esp at my age.. I am PLAID! LOL

I have peopel here swearing I am a one.. and in the next post swear I am an 8.... as I said.. I am PLaid.. just depends on the tartan mix <G>

INteresting you are stuck on denial label about me.. HOw many people my age are open enough to go to a psychiatrist and therapy to find out that they are aspies?  How many are on this board?  I am very open to suggestions but by the same token I am not a fool either.  People read what they wish to read all too often.  It all depends on the person I have learned...

Stuck? ..about you? Gee, have I been typing in my sleep? Link me to my many discussions of Yetti the Denialist.

Leave the paranoia to the 6's, Yetti. I'm talking about characteristics of 8's. I don't personally care if you're in denial or in the merry old land of Oz. Argue with the Ennegram websites.

First its denial and now its paranoia? Hmmm the plot thickens.. Tell me more about myself...

Max = Elmer Fudd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTydGEYdVbE

Yetti = Bugs

Five, where have you studied the Enneagram? or are you self-taught? I've met professionals who certainly don't know more than you do. Are you connected to any of the professional organizations?

Most of the people I know who use the Enneagram as part of their careers are therapists, counselors or coaches. The Personal Strengths Coaching program at San Francisco State University has an Enneagram course as part of its coach certificate curriculum.

The Stanford School of Business also uses it.

Of course I'm sure the San Francisco Bay Area is an Enneagram hotbed.  

   Am I being Ignored?   

Max the Bear Wrote:

Five Wrote:

I wonder... does anybody have thoughts/ideas about how I could make my enneagram knowledge and skills into my work, earn money with it? I have thought many times about, with the result that it remains a hobby only.

Five, where have you studied the Enneagram? or are you self-taught? I've met professionals who certainly don't know more than you do. Are you connected to any of the professional organizations?

Most of the people I know who use the Enneagram as part of their careers are therapists, counselors or coaches. The Personal Strengths Coaching program at San Francisco State University has an Enneagram course as part of its coach certificate curriculum.

The Stanford School of Business also uses it.

Of course I'm sure the San Francisco Bay Area is an Enneagram hotbed.  

OH well.. I still like ya Max!

<Diverting Yetti to be more serious successfully>

I prefer Yoga and my lifelong pursuit of stress relief and exercise... and a sense of humour.. I will remain a GDI Plaid

<a little bit of nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men>

I'm self-taught, never followed a training for this and not connected to an organization.

Something like working in a personal strenghts coaching program is a possibility I'm thinking of. Especially for business people because I have experience to work in a big company, I know their problems.
I don't think these organizations need a lot of people, but on the other hand, I need only 1 job. It will require maybe more of my social skills, and talking skills than I have. I can't wait too long with changing jobs otherwise they might say I'm too old.
Initially I wanted to start my own company, but I need a partner who is good at acquiring customers. Probably the money I would make is less than now.

IMHO, that is just character .. and one can judge character and not ones soul.  There are other ways but if it helps some aspies.. who am I to blow against the wind.. My philosophy is whatever works for you.

I have a question>

If one is happy in career, fortune, personal life, then why would they need aspie support?  My best friend asked me that.. she is an aspie.. I can tell.. I am of the believe knowledege is power...

She is not happy because of her social situation....  
For me... I feel there is always room for improvement, hence I come to these boards, read and go to the real world support groups.

I feel however after a while I have received all I can to a certain degree and just reading and going to the national conferences for new info will be just as good to keep abreast on new developments.

Except for seeing my weak points as an aspie as well as strong points, but in these support groups there seems to be mostly weak points with most there..

I think I will stay until I feel I am not getting enough benefit of education because in all honesty , they get me down with their hostility, lack of ability to get a joke, lacking social skills.. Its like a snake pit!  BOY it tells me  what not to do!

Granted NTs are not the best people in the world.. they have their massive challenges...

Unless I can do something to help besides myself, I Don't feel a need to go.  They are just "Rotten " to be around and at the same time so sad , and I feel those of us who found the way , have the answer, but they have to "wanna" enough to behave if they want help.

I am NOT a therapist, but I have answers... I Just feel at my age, like my friend, who needs the added strife and burden..

IF I want misery , I can just go to a family reunion on my mothers side <G>  There are enough aspies and OCDer to fill a poison bottle.  Snappy, nasty, can't take jokes, can't give jokes, always with a chip on their shoulder.

My husband said to stay until I don't want to go any more.. I Think that sums it up.

Exactly. Sometimes people ask me: why are you smiling? I say: Oh, just nothing .

About the added value of the enneagram:
I'm convinced of that. It helped me get a job; actively creating positive feedback and keep the job, becoming independent financially; manage my feelings in private time. In short, the enneagram helped me to become more succesful and happier. And it is pure fun as a hobby.
Yetti, I appreciate that you say openly what you really think (but that's no surprise from an 8). I understand it is hard to convince others of the added value. I'm not saying there is little added value for companies, I'm just saying I know it is hard to convince them. I expect this will change in time.

Yetti... you're pretty new to this Aspie thing, and from some of your replies in other threads I can tell that you don't get all aspects of Aspie socialization yet... Living in the NT world for 56 years might have given you an edge over some other Aspies, but it also seems to have made you lose the ability to just take things literally... Aspies are often very literal, and I've noticed you reading stuff into things that absolutely weren't intended that way... that were intended as literal as you can get.
Also, some Aspie humor is different from NT humor... you have to get used to it.
Finally... it's logical for people (especially in support groups) to focus more on their weaknesses and how to deal with them than with their strengths... Unless you like to brag, of course...

FYI... you seem to be saying that most or all Aspies (other than you) are rotten... you're saying this on an Aspie forum... that's likely to not go over well. If you don't feel at home here, you're welcome to go somewhere else where you feel more at home... I'm not telling you to leave... just saying that this forum was not created to be rude to Aspies at large, afaik. Generalizations like that can and do hurt (some) Aspies. Some Aspies are more Aspie than others, some had more support (whether diagnosed or not) during childhood and beyond than others and some hence have better coping skills than others... this is not something to go and act superior over... the people at Cure Autism Now are doing a good enough job of acting superior already.
Sorry if I misunderstood your statements about other Aspies, but my husband got the same impression from reading your posts and I know at least one other Aspie that also did, so if we're misunderstanding you then perhaps it's a good idea to figure out how to be more clear in the future.

It isn't remotely like "horoscope stuff" and you don't know enough to make that judgment, but you're in attack/reject mode now, so you're not open to hearing anything. It would appear you have nothing further to contribute.

Now you are reading into things... Seeming to say is your assumption... no .. I Know there are aspies out there who are not getting diagnosed or treated and are quite happy.. to me  a support group is about all the good the bad and the ugly... I am not a negative person but I do get tired of a lot of whining when there is good advice and not just from me... I Like to focus on the positive... all i see is people passing up not only my advice which you are focused on ME as usual... but others good advice... I read a lot of great advice on here only to see the same person go on and on about the same problem...

Support groups also celebrate success and look to the positive to help.. not just misery loves company... And BTW several told me that most who go to these internet or support groups are the ones with the severest problems that many are adusting fine and do not seek these places... I am beginning to think they are right.. It did not come from me but others who are Aspies and NTs..

So stop with Yetti  is bragging etc etc.. I think I am getting a lot of good information from all sides and take it all in.... NOthing wrong with being happy! Try it sometimes.. it feels good.

My husband agrees as do many I have talked with ....

I tried starting a positive support group and I basically get are the ODDs and people who never take advice.. its incessant complaints... NO JOY!

One kid on this line talked about his getting scholarship... I did not se many congratuate him as should have...

This is all way too negative for me.. and I think I will be leaving all these forums and support groups... I can go to the conferences myself and learn first hand...

Some just want to blame others and stay miserable all their lives esp the adults... and look for company who share the same misery , not to help but to pat each other on the back that no there is no hope...

It gets old!

My NT husband read your posts and he said... they can't see the forrest for the trees.  They will just pull you down and that is just what they want.

Too bad you and your husband see joy and happiness as bragging? How sad.

Yup! exactly

Thank YOU FIVE!  Someone gets it!

I see your point but I don't see many people inquiring further how to fish... you try to communicate and in a week they are back with self pity and I can't do it.. or avoidance to solve the problem...


This forum does not lend itself to a learning environment.

I won't I kept the title and name   The conference for Aspergers was last week.. so I will wait till next year.. I am going to the OCD conference this weekend...  This way I get the latest news on the OCD and Asperger's, a vacation, and a drink or two at the bar.

I will keep my name here if anyone wants to write... and will check it periodically.. Thanks for a lot of information... I have no regrets coming here.. Time for me to move on to new territory.... Take care everyone.. hope the best for all.

I'm having mixed feelings about this, to be honest. On the one hand, Yetti's said useful and funny stuff, on the other hand, there are some things that I do not like...

I pretty much agree with everything anbuend has written on this page... I don't have problems with Yetti mentioning her happy marriage (I've mentioned myself that I've got a wonderful husband, so I'm sorta guilty of the same thing), but I do mind the "The Aspies I see here are 'rotten'" part, and all the whining about how people don't want to be helped. Just quit bothering with the people that don't want to be helped! Also, some people here have things like depression as a comorbid, which makes following through on help pretty difficult. I don't know whether you've ever been depressed, but it can really make life very difficult. Personally, if I ask someone for advice and get some and don't follow up on it, it tends to be because I don't fully understand the advice but don't know how to ask for more detailed help. W/e...

LOL -- but that's usually the point don't you think? It's to get people to beg them to stay. Whereas those who want them to leave just remain silent with their fingers crossed...

I'm speculating that 3 would be a fairly rare type for autistics--the 3's strength (one of them) lies in being able to easily adapt an image to fit the prevailing expectation of whatever contexts the 3 inhabits.  Supposedly, the ability to do this operates almost unconsciously--I dunno--there's no way I'm a 3.  I'm not saying you're not a 3, Ando--I have no way of knowing.  A challenge for 3s is to reframe success away from the external metrics and towards intrinsic self-valuing.

Several types will be achievement-oriented, so this isn't the sole province of 3s.  And fear of failure afflicts 1, 3, 5 (the competency-oriented types).

It's probably not so rare if you take into consideration that it's probably defined by that the 3's try to adapt an image to fit the expectation of success; that's no guarantee that they would be successful in that. I hope that I made sense.

To assume that support groups and internet groups only have Aspies with the severest problems, and "most Aspies in the world are getting along fine," is one of the most insipid and outright self-righteous statements I've ever read.

Unless that's your "symbolic NT" talking?  I'm just supposed to find a pretty subtext in all that, huh?

Yes, I think you've earned the antagonism.  Just criticize the forum directly.  Or is that more NT symbolism?

Oh crap, you must have stumbled onto my posts now.  I have that effect on people, sometimes.

Who gives a crap really.  Self-loathing (glass is half empty) is how I live, always has been.  I've known succesful folks like that as well.

It's your problem, not mine.

Now you are reading into things... Seeming to say is your assumption... no .. I Know there are aspies out there who are not getting diagnosed or treated and are quite happy.. to me  a support group is about all the good the bad and the ugly... I am not a negative person but I do get tired of a lot of whining when there is good advice and not just from me... I Like to focus on the positive... all i see is people passing up not only my advice which you are focused on ME as usual... but others good advice... I read a lot of great advice on here only to see the same person go on and on about the same problem...

Support groups also celebrate success and look to the positive to help.. not just misery loves company... And BTW several told me that most who go to these internet or support groups are the ones with the severest problems that many are adusting fine and do not seek these places... I am beginning to think they are right.. It did not come from me but others who are Aspies and NTs..

So stop with Yetti  is bragging etc etc.. I think I am getting a lot of good information from all sides and take it all in.... NOthing wrong with being happy! Try it sometimes.. it feels good.

My husband agrees as do many I have talked with ....

I tried starting a positive support group and I basically get are the ODDs and people who never take advice.. its incessant complaints... NO JOY!

One kid on this line talked about his getting scholarship... I did not se many congratuate him as should have...

This is all way too negative for me.. and I think I will be leaving all these forums and support groups... I can go to the conferences myself and learn first hand...

Some just want to blame others and stay miserable all their lives esp the adults... and look for company who share the same misery , not to help but to pat each other on the back that no there is no hope...

It gets old!

Just to reiterate:

Talk about "Aspies are self-righteous."

You could look into 6.  Or also try looking into 4.
I doubt that anyone has done a scientific study of autism and E types--the info would be pretty anecdotal. But 6w5 wouldn't be surprising, in my opinion.

Based on what I've read of your postings, you appear to be a "reactive" type.

Do either set of these "transformations" resonate with you?

Type 6

I now release...

my fear of being abandoned and alone.
my self-defeating, self-punishing tendencies.
all feelings of dread about the future.
feeling persecuted, trapped, and desperate.
overreacting and exaggerating my problems.
taking out my fears and anxieties on others.
being suspicious of others and thinking the worst of them.
feeling inferior and incapable of functioning on my own.
feeling cowardly and unsure of myself.
acting "tough" to disguise my insecurities.
my fear and dislike of those who are different from me.
blaming others for my own problems and mistakes.
being evasive and defensive with those who need me.
my tendency to be negative and complaining.
my fear of taking responsibility for my mistakes.
looking to others to make me feel secure.

I now affirm...

that I am independent and capable.
that I can keep my own identity in groups and in relationships.
that I have faith in myself, my talents, and my future.
that I meet difficulties with calmness and confidence.
that I am secure and able to make the best of whatever comes my way.
the kinship I have with every human being.
that I am understanding and generous to all who need me.
that I act courageously in all circumstances.
that I find true authority within me.

Type 4

I now release...

turning my anger and aggressions against myself.
all self-hatred and self-contempt.
all feelings of hopelessness and despair.
all self-sabotaging thoughts and actions.
feeling that I am inadequate and defective.
the fear that I am unimportant and undesirable.
feeling shameful and misunderstood by others.
being distraught, fatigued, and inhibited.
feeling that people always let me down.
all unrealistic expectations of myself and others.
all claims of needing to be treated differently.
all self-indulgence in my emotions and behavior.
all self-doubt and emotional vulnerability.
wanting to protect myself by withdrawing from others.
all wasteful fantasies and romantic longings.
dwelling on the past to prolong my feelings.
I now affirm...

that I am not defined by my feelings.
that only the feelings I act on express who I am.
that I open myself up to people and the world.
that I use all of my experiences to grow.
the goodness of my life, my friends, and myself.
that I love myself and treat myself gently.
that I am free of the damage of my past.
that I am transforming my life into something higher.
that I am bringing something good and beautiful into the world.

Energeia, I agree.
Enjoy the conference.

Ando, I think it's possible to be a 3 and aspie, although not common. There are 2 kinds of 3s: like a 7 (doing supports thinking) or like a 8 (thinking supports doing).

The only information we have is written texts and answers from people, so there is a risk of typing persons wrongly. But having said that, I think Batman55 is a 6. One thing you do, Batman55, is ask a lot of questions (like type 6, the questioner), but I see many more clues. By the way, there are 2 kinds of 6 (like a 1, feeling supports doing, or like a 2, doing supports feeling).
Batman55: another way of typing people is my own feeling about them, whether I like them or not, and in what degree, and why.
To check your type: in what circumstances do you postpone something? For example, I postpone when I don't know enough to act, have insufficient information. When do you postpone?

I can be wrong, but from what I've seen many people here are 6s, I have seen both men and women here. I don't think it is good to mention their names until they start posting in this thread.

Type 6 transformation, definitely resonates.

I postpone when I don't have the feeling to do it, or if my mood is down.  Everything is run by feeling, for me.  Mostly.

Information has little to do with it.  I'm not logical or practical.

I do all of these things.

I don't know what's up.  Does this mean 6w4 or 4w6 or..?

I'd have to say that the most outstanding trait for me is in bold.  But the others are things I do, as well.

One possibility can be type 6 of the 1 kind. When a 1 is rather stressed, he gets 4 properties, becomes more emotional unbalanced. In other words, it's possible to be a 6 and recognise yourself in 4 too.

To check:
If you feel good (not stressed), do you recognise yourself in 9, see link below? If yes, you're a 6. A 6 I know, becomes slow when unstressed (at 9), becomes distracted easily, like a 9. A 6 is more "mr average", likes to dress for example in blue, to be like the rest. A lot of 6s are hardworking, like to co-operate with others in a team. 6s can be pessimists, seeing problems everywhere. 6s say often: yes, BUT...

If you feel good (not stressed), do you recognise yourself in 1, see link below? If yes, you're a 4. A 4 likes to be different from the rest, prefers that. A 4 doesn't want to become like the rest. The worst thing to say to a 4 when upset is: oh, that's normal. A 4 wants to hear: you're a special case. Many 4s are creative, artists.

http://www.9types.com/descr/baron2.html

I still think you're a 6 because from all the questions in this forum about what you exactly have, you apparently care what the experts say, you seem to have a focus on authorities, like a 6. A 4 would have said much earlier: I'm unique, I cannot be labeled.

3

Excellent, you understand, you are very rational.

That's why I like it, because I'm always right this way (just joking).

Everybody has all traits and all types, but not in the same ratio. And it's a dynamic system so not all traits are present in any situation.

That's what I thought, a 2.

Nope!
It just proves you're a sharp thinker.

If you want to identify with your fiveness, look at the various ways you withhold.  Fives are famous for acquiring and then being withholding with knowledge...but it doesn't have to be knowledge.  It could be money, affection, time.  Whatever the five thinks is or could be scarce, so wants to have control over the conditions under which it is given away.[/u]

Are you an MBTI sensor? Just curious.
For me, symbolic psych systems like astrology and the enneagram have been helpful for mapping people's behavior into patterns I can understand.  Turns chaos into some order.  A danger is that at the same time that a type framework such as the enneagram reveals possible order, it also conceals.  Things that don't fit or are discordant are ignored or explained away. Hence, there is possibility for error as well as some truth.  To quote some wise person, don't recall who, but the one who said--"the map is not the territory".

I agree completely, I'm a very poor symbolic thinker.  I like to look at the world by using any number of angles, which don't necessarily represent what "I truly think."  As someone with AS I have a murky self-concept, so I like to compare and contrast everything to everything else, rather than "keeping things in place" with the NT abstractions, and so on.  Things/life/existence is slippery for me, I don't know what to make of it, and I prefer to stay on the outside and question things rather than claim to make sense of it all.

I'm not very flexible in my behavioural patterns.  Does that mean unhealthy?  To me it means a very common tendency of AS.. preference for sameness and willful control over things.  A compulsive need for order is the way I see my lack of flexibility, rather than being unhealthy.

I see it as more 6w4.

My mistake:  I just realized that there are only 18 possible combinations on the Enneagram, and 6w4 is not one of them.

Shows what I know.

It seems 6w5 does make quite a bit of sense for me, actually.

Only because 6 and 4 are not seen as "next to each other" in a relatively arbitrary classification system.  I'd wonder why 6w4 should not be possible.

I was surprised to find out that when I'm at ease and feeling like an 8, I start responding like a 2, fully unconsciously. For example spontaneously telling strangers who seem to be lost which direction to take.

Are you saying you also support the trifix idea?

I score highest on T, high on I, evenly split on J/P, and slightly higher on N

I'm most IS/NTJ-like at work and pretty much INTP in my personal life.

Not according to the correlation table in the link I gave.

I admit I had to look up strabismus; now I know what it is. I didn't see that on the photo on this forum and not on the photo on the EIDB (sorry ).
Energeia, do you know how I can get in the EIDB? I can login with my username from years ago (posted very few posts and left) but I don't want to use that username anymore because it contains my real first name. I have logged in with another username and another Email address but something went wrong on the site and the only option I see is to take a third Email address. Do you know an alternative to login in EIDB? Thanks for your help. Although this would not reduce my time online, I want to go back more to reading books also...

I'm type 6, but very far from level-headed or logical (which I assume is a primary function of IST, from what you've said, Five.)

This keeps getting more confusing every day, in this thread.

No, not all INTs are 5s.  Most probably are, but it's not uncommon to find INTJ 6s on Enneagram boards, and in academia.  Few people identify as INTP 6s.  Legend has it that INTP 9s and INTJ 1s are also fairly common.

No...6s, 9s,and 1s can be INTs or ISTs too.  My father is an ISTP 6w5.  But for these types, unlike 5, INT's and IST's are probably a minority, as the I and the T are not mandatory in those types.

FWIW, I'm an InTP (weak N) 5w6, non-autistic.

Interesting stuff , I have actually never heard about it before .)

I got a 4.  The page describing 4 mentioned 4w5, though, and that sounded like me.  But, it also said 4s miss-identify as 5s, so I don't know.  

Here are some descriptions of types (there are many more available):
http://www.hurleydonson.com/nine_types.htm
http://www.9types.com/descr/baron2.html

Besides type (1 to 9 and their wings) there is also:
Level of health (healthy, average, unhealthy). I guess most people, not all, fall in the middle group ("average").
And there are the instincts (self-preservation, sexual, social).

I don't understand the statement you got about 4s miss-identify as 5s. 4s are in the feeling triad, 5s are thinkers. That's a big difference.

And 6s are in between

Luai_lashire Wrote:

I got a 4.  The page describing 4 mentioned 4w5, though, and that sounded like me.  But, it also said 4s miss-identify as 5s, so I don't know.  

Here are some descriptions of types (there are many more available):
http://www.hurleydonson.com/nine_types.htm
http://www.9types.com/descr/baron2.html

Besides type (1 to 9 and their wings) there is also:
Level of health (healthy, average, unhealthy). I guess most people, not all, fall in the middle group ("average").
And there are the instincts (self-preservation, sexual, social).

I don't understand the statement you got about 4s miss-identify as 5s. 4s are in the feeling triad, 5s are thinkers. That's a big difference.

Thanks.  The descriptions on those sites don't sound anything like the one I first read, but describe me better, particularly the "Social 4" (except that I don't really mind if my friends do things without me and I don't seek out social interaction)

First (moderately) accurate results I get. Yay, only 1 4 in sight, and 7 isn't extremely high either.

The description of 4 on that site is so sad, if you ask me. Reminds me of my ex-boyfriend (Neuty / Wolf from the chat), a self-absorbed overly emotional emo kid. And I used to act like that, too. *sighs...*

Maybe someday I can finally be rid of all my emotions and emo feelings.

One way to look at the enneagram is this way:
It is a model, a system, a theory. Of mind, of your and other people's psychology. So especially for people who don't have very good social skills for whatever reason, and for autistic people without a good Theory of Mind, it can be really helpful to understand motivations for behaviour.
But don't confuse the enneagram with reality, it is a useful model, not reality. Otherwise the number of different people would be limited, while in reality there is only one you, incomparably unique.

I wonder id he was reading a Don Risso description. I've always felt Risso is confused on his own 4/5 identity. (a 5 claiming to be a 4)

You floated that possibility when we talked last summer.  I never score high as a Six on any of the tests and get zeroes on 9...

But it does explain several things -- my absolute distrust and loathing of unhealthy 3's and my almost universal affection for the sixes I've known... and if you see me at home with Erich, I sure look like a Nine. I avoid situations where I have to be a Three because I get WAY too much into the three-ness and it just brings out all the worst in me. It's a lot of why I left the theater.

I'm looking at counter-phobic 6, sexual subtype... hmmm...

6w5... hard to grasp a category that includes Richard Nixon and Diane Keaton, who are very near the opposite extremes of my despise/adore axis...

hmmm...

Hi Quickduck , nice avatar you have. Mine becomes invisible sometimes.

As I see it, what an enneatype 9 (a peacemaker) or some other types can do intuitively (to prevent conflicts, or to mediate) must be possible for others to do in a conscious manner too, based on knowledge and learned insights. If on AFF we would know eachother's enneatypes, and have an understanding of the specific ways the types are motivated and think, that would be a tool to keep discussions from getting too intense and too serious. I wonder what would happen if we cannot only see the contents of what the other person writes in his or her post, but also interpret the form, the container, correctly, what the other's real purpose is, what is meant. After all, and not everybody will agree with this, but "that doesn't change the fact" (joking now, said something exactly in the way a 5 would say it): we are all connected; it is like the left hand of a body fighting with its own right hand. Neither can win....

Wanna make a bet?

By that test, I am definitely a 4, but with a bit more 3 wing than 5. yukk

My three really showed when I was acting and directing. That's part of why I quit -- I really don't like having that Three rear its ugly head.

I have absolutely no Nine whatsoever -- On several enneagram tests I've scored ZERO on nine.

"Correct" is the correct word for a 1 wing.

I agree the 8/9 combination seems counter-intuitive, but I've known a couple of 8w9 or 9w8 people where I could really see the two points. One of my favorite people in the world is a 9 with a very clear 8 wing. She was a high school principal -- possibly the best principal I've ever known.

Actually, that's a pretty clear and decisive 6w5 (if decisive is ever the right word to use with a Six...).

Almost everybody will pick up a point or two or more in every category -- all of us have a touch of everything. (Except that I've got no 9)

That's a very clear 9. I think Aspies and/or very bright people usually get a bit of a bounce on the 5 type. On the "help!" thread, I see the Nine in action as you look at things from everyone else's point of view, then question your own point of view -- "Oh, dear, am I being a Six?"

Lol, neither do I actually... no 9 at all lol...

I dont know if I am really THAT indecisive tho... I mean I question my self but normally make a decision.

Oh well its an interesting experiment and a way of further 'catagorising' people...

I did find it wierd that my result on the second test was so different tho, lol...

I see the five so clearly, but I really hesitate to call 6 on people. I often don't see the Six until much later. But the funny thing for me is that when I meet somebody and just hit it off with them immediately, it soooo often turns out they are sixes.

For what it's worth, that site's write-up on a Four didn't feel right to me at all.

AFAIK it's pretty widely used and quite well respected.  Always interesting to do, anyway!

Um, so is it possible to have two wings?  From the type descriptions, I could see myself easily being a 5 with a 4 and 6 wing.  And the numbers seem to support that possibility.

cool, what in the world does 5w6 mean? I sort of get the 5 part. what does a 6 wing mean? Thanks

Thank you that helps.

Just like the personality quiz,I really dont know what being Aspie is either, its just what I am. It does help knowing what the words mean.