+- Aspies For Freedom (http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com)
+-- Forum: Autistic Advocacy (/forumdisplay.php?fid=51)
+--- Forum: Activism discussion (/forumdisplay.php?fid=66)
+--- Thread: Psychology People's (/showthread.php?tid=22928)
Psychology People's - Mytelli! - 07-31-2011 06:28 AM
This is why I don't like the term 'Neurodiversity' as a tool of persuasion;
Personal opinion;
- If people have a system that works, you will be extremly hard pressed to get them to change to a different one.
- People's actions are influenced by emotions and personal experiances, for the most part. Logic has very little to do with it. You need a slogen that is going to appeal to them not us.
To make a few slanderouse, unverified sweeping statments here are our demographics and their views:
Proffessionals:
Autism is a disease, cure the disease and you will cure the problem. They've poured everything into this mindset and worked very hard at it.
General public:
Don't really care. They see autistic people as 'Rainman' type people. If they want further information they will consult the proffessionals, so, yes autism is a disease. Supporting the proffessionals will make them feel good about themselves. If they already have made donations and what not, than supporting neurodiversity would mean that they would have to accept they've done the wronge thing. But why would they? The proffessionals are the ones who are the authority.
Unlikely to look into it very much, most people base their opinions on what they've seen in the news or whatever rather than doing the reasearch.
Also functional autistic people are self diagnosed moochers
Autistic people:
Very wide range of people. Different levels of functionality. If they've been brought up to belive that they are diseased and incomplete than they will belive it. If they haven't gone through the system than it doesn't really affect them.
Would it be fair to say that the 'Neurodiversaty' type aspies are in the minority?
So the term 'Neurodiversity' itself. Who does it appeal to? The general public? The proffessionals? Or the minority of aspies who have already taken to the idea?
If the majority of people have taken to the idea that autism is a disease or an imparment, then what is the average person going to think when they hear the term Neurodiversity? Sicknessdiversity, or 'we want to be diseased?
It wont make sense to the average person.
I think people need to understand the reasons for the mindset rather than having the mindset imposed on them from the start.
People can relate to not bieng listened to and not listening to autistic people is something they have no excuse for. If we make it blatently and undeniably obviouse that we are not bieng listened to than people will no longer get a good feeling out of supporting our oppression
I also think this stuff would be better off focusing on demographics rather than using the neurodiversity method to blanket all the demographics.
Neurodiversity doesn't appeal to far right political people. And those seem to be the ones who run Autism speaks and Autism speaks type organisations.
RE: Psychology People's - Genesis - 07-31-2011 07:02 AM
You're still not getting it....
RE: Psychology People's - Genesis - 07-31-2011 07:04 AM
Its not just the far right, its the ones that are "easily affected" and don't know where else to turn to with there "problems" with the child, its those types that might deny that they have Autism as a gene inside their family.
RE: Psychology People's - Mytelli! - 07-31-2011 07:19 AM
Genesis Wrote:
You're still not getting it....
I get that you belive that you are the centre of the universe and anything that isn't your opinion is wrong and unworthy of debate.
Like I said it was a sweeping statment. I was bringing up some of the information and opinions relavant to whether or not 'Neurodiversity' is an approprait word for the cause. I was also only talking about some of the autism organisations. Such as Autism speaks or the Aus equaivalent.
To put us back on track is the term 'Neurodiversity' approprate and appealing to parents worried about their children?
RE: Psychology People's - Genesis - 07-31-2011 07:21 AM
I'm not the center of this discussion Mytelli get your facts straight here... Not all of the Far right are screwed up sometimes... sometimes Neurodiversity sounds like something thats not fully understood to the "norms". If you had a suggestion on what the word should be besides Neurodiversity what would it be?
RE: Psychology People's - Genesis - 07-31-2011 07:22 AM
The part where I said its the families that are affected, I meant the ones where the parents don't know where to turn too besides Autsqeeks.
RE: Psychology People's - Mytelli! - 07-31-2011 07:32 AM
"Neurodiversity doesn't appeal to far right political people. And those seem to be the ones who run Autism speaks and Autism speaks type organisations."
Granted, prehaps I phrased this a bit wronge. I don't think people on the right are 'screwed up'.
I was just hinting at whether or not we could aim some of our efforts in a way that could appeal to conservative people as well.
Prehaps you could assume good faith? Instead of assuming the worst of everything I say, without giving me a chance to clarify? I'm not going to respond to de-railing attempts.
RE: Psychology People's - Genesis - 07-31-2011 07:34 AM
Maybe I'm the one thats not getting the clear picture to this subject.... enlighten us on this why don't you...
RE: Psychology People's - 142857 - 07-31-2011 07:34 AM
Mytelli! Wrote:
If the majority of people have taken to the idea that autism is a disease or an imparment, then what is the average person going to think when they hear the term Neurodiversity? Sicknessdiversity, or 'we want to be diseased?
It wont make sense to the average person.
It wont make sense to the average person.
This I totally agree with and I have alluded to several times.
Do we concentrate our efforts on supporting activism and fighting for neurodiversity, or do we try to get people to see that autism is not a tragedy? That we live worthwhile lives and often make a big contribution to the world?
I know that some of us do not like shows like Big Bang Theory, which presents a somewhat silly and exaggerated stereotype of aspergers syndrome. But I think that anything that presents us as being decent and worthwhile members of society, who are perhaps just a little different, has got to be a good thing.
RE: Psychology People's - Genesis - 07-31-2011 07:37 AM
All I am wondering is this..... wouldn't you both agree to a culture movement for those with Aspergers and Autism? mainly so people would get what its like? Without having the emphasis on a cure? Just on how life is like for us instead?
RE: Psychology People's - Genesis - 07-31-2011 07:38 AM
Cause the way nuerodiversity is getting with people these days.... its still a little unclear.
RE: Psychology People's - 142857 - 07-31-2011 07:45 AM
Genesis Wrote:
All I am wondering is this..... wouldn't you both agree to a culture movement for those with Aspergers and Autism? mainly so people would get what its like? Without having the emphasis on a cure? Just on how life is like for us instead?
Yes, absolutely.
RE: Psychology People's - Genesis - 07-31-2011 07:47 AM
142857 Wrote:
Genesis Wrote:
All I am wondering is this..... wouldn't you both agree to a culture movement for those with Aspergers and Autism? mainly so people would get what its like? Without having the emphasis on a cure? Just on how life is like for us instead?
Yes, absolutely.
Then why not let that happen?
Thats the kind of thing that might lead it to feel like activitism, yet its not something to protest about... its something thats suppose to be told, be seen, be heard, be felt.... whats so hard about listening to a point of view, which can be different then the one of a short stumpy old lady who just doesn't seem to get it.
RE: Psychology People's - Mytelli! - 07-31-2011 10:59 AM
I think simply showing people that autistic people aren't like they are depicted by the charities is extremly harmful to the curbies image in itself.
I contacted one of the organisation's in my area about our portrayal and they said quite flatly that they wanted to shock and gain attention and raise funds. I guess accurate portrayal has nothing to do with it.
We don't need to raise the 'neurodiversity' flag. We just have to put a different image of autism into the public domain. Then, they'll have to wast more of their own money trying to misrepresent us, and misrepresenting us will start to be harmfull to their image, because people will start to ask 'Wait what's going on? Is autism a horrible death sentance or not?'
Honestly, I don't thing many aspies themselves catch onto the neurodiversity thing.
RE: Psychology People's - Genesis - 07-31-2011 11:27 PM
Shock and attention? Wow.... fail to Autsqeeks then...
RE: Psychology People's - Alison - 08-01-2011 12:46 AM
I have found that the more I've shown people that I'm capable, efficient, logical and innovative at the various places I've worked at over the years, the more they try to put my abilities down.
I wondered about this for some time and have come up with the only solution that makes sense to me: since I don't act like the norm, therefore I have to be worse than they are. Because the only alternative is that *they* are found to be lacking. And since they are the norm, and I am not, therefore I have to be "sick, diseased, wrong" automatically. Despite all evidence to the contrary.
It's about perception and the pecking order. To be considered even a quarter as "able" as the majority, I have to be seen to do things 1) like they do, or 2) Twice as well as they do it. The third option is to become successful in my own right without constant comparision. Guess which box I've ticked?
Alison
RE: Psychology People's - Genesis - 08-01-2011 12:58 AM
This just seems to be the beginning of something very interesting, no matter how hard the consequences will be.
RE: Psychology People's - skyblue1 - 08-01-2011 01:03 AM
Try using the word 'neurodiversity' in as many conversations as you can.
Most folks have never heard the word.
If someone asks what does that mean, have a simple answer ready. Dont make it a big deal.
As soon as several billion more people hear and understand the word, it will be better accepted.
RE: Psychology People's - BardWolf - 08-01-2011 04:36 AM
Quote:
Honestly, I don't thing many aspies themselves catch onto the neurodiversity thing.
You'll be heavily surprised.
RE: Psychology People's - Mytelli! - 08-01-2011 08:28 AM
BardWolf Wrote:
Quote:
Honestly, I don't thing many aspies themselves catch onto the neurodiversity thing.
You'll be heavily surprised.
I was. This is a minority website and only a minority of people are even into the stated cause;
http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthread.php?tid=22297&page=1
I think alot of people just say they're into it 'cause they feel like they should.
RE: Psychology People's - kevout2 - 08-01-2011 10:06 AM
Alison Wrote:
I have found that the more I've shown people that I'm capable, efficient, logical and innovative at the various places I've worked at over the years, the more they try to put my abilities down.
I wondered about this for some time and have come up with the only solution that makes sense to me: since I don't act like the norm, therefore I have to be worse than they are. Because the only alternative is that *they* are found to be lacking. And since they are the norm, and I am not, therefore I have to be "sick, diseased, wrong" automatically. Despite all evidence to the contrary.
It's about perception and the pecking order. To be considered even a quarter as "able" as the majority, I have to be seen to do things 1) like they do, or 2) Twice as well as they do it. The third option is to become successful in my own right without constant comparision. Guess which box I've ticked?
Alison
I wondered about this for some time and have come up with the only solution that makes sense to me: since I don't act like the norm, therefore I have to be worse than they are. Because the only alternative is that *they* are found to be lacking. And since they are the norm, and I am not, therefore I have to be "sick, diseased, wrong" automatically. Despite all evidence to the contrary.
It's about perception and the pecking order. To be considered even a quarter as "able" as the majority, I have to be seen to do things 1) like they do, or 2) Twice as well as they do it. The third option is to become successful in my own right without constant comparision. Guess which box I've ticked?
Alison
What you're describing seems to parallel what blacks and women (as well as other minorities) have experienced in past generations. After all, showing that you're indeed capable (or perhaps even better at certain things) is a threat to the ego of the status quo.
RE: Psychology People's - BardWolf - 08-01-2011 03:18 PM
Mytelli! Wrote:
BardWolf Wrote:
Quote:
Honestly, I don't thing many aspies themselves catch onto the neurodiversity thing.
You'll be heavily surprised.
I was. This is a minority website and only a minority of people are even into the stated cause;
http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthread.php?tid=22297&page=1
I think alot of people just say they're into it 'cause they feel like they should.
You're using this forum as proof where their are places like TASH, SABE, NYLA and of course ASAN as references.