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+--- Thread: Smoking and autistic babies! (/showthread.php?tid=21436)
Smoking and autistic babies! - Alison - 01-18-2011 02:00 PM
I've been hearing lately more and more about another unproven cause of autism.
Since the vaccine-link was discredited, it seems people are once more grasping at straws, and this latest one is about how a person's smoking may cause autism in their children. Not side-stream smoke, but that the chemicals in the cigarettes may damage the individual's DNA and cause them to have autistic offspring.
Personally, I think it's a load of old dingoes kidneys, but I've known people who swear that's the reason for the rise in autism, because more and more people are smoking.
What do others think of this? Did/do your parents smoke? For the record, mine never did.
Alison
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Genesis - 01-18-2011 02:36 PM
Since the vaccine-link was discredited, it seems people are once more grasping at straws, and this latest one is about how a person's smoking may cause autism in their children. Not side-stream smoke, but that the chemicals in the cigarettes may damage the individual's DNA and cause them to have autistic offspring.
Personally, I think it's a load of old dingoes kidneys, but I've known people who swear that's the reason for the rise in autism, because more and more people are smoking.
What do others think of this? Did/do your parents smoke? For the record, mine never did.
Alison
Mom never did, so did Dad....
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - 142857 - 01-18-2011 02:44 PM
Both my parents smoked. My father smoked 2 packs a day before I was born. My mother didn't smoke when she was pregnant. My father quit when I was a baby, my mother quit when I was a toddler.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - morty - 01-18-2011 02:51 PM
Fewer and fewer people are smoking in the USA, and, to hear the scare-mongers tell it we're up to our umbilici in autistic babies. Both my parents smoked like chimneys, drank like fishes, swore like navvies (I hope I'm using that word right; "dingoes kidneys" inspired me), and my father brought home mercury for me to play with (you can rub mercury on a cent and pass it as a dime). Damn! I think you can catch autism from anything!
Just feeling my happy aspieness this fine morning.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Marcia - 01-18-2011 04:29 PM
Surely fewer people smoke now than in previous generations, and smoking in pregnancy is much less common than it was.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - AspieGrrl - 01-18-2011 06:29 PM
Neither. Ever.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Lucid lunacy - 01-18-2011 08:25 PM
When one cash scam fails, you start another.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - ScottishWildcat - 01-18-2011 08:36 PM
So the next (expensive, of course) "therapy" can be implemented, for example...
But as there is no clear etiology for AS and no clear confirmation of its genetic origins (this is the current PoV among French specialists, your information may be different), people can jump in with nearly anything they will think of...
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Lestat - 01-18-2011 08:46 PM
Mine do, unsure if they did, but probably.
Heh morty, you must be an old fart, playing around with Hg like that...fun stuff isn't it?
There is another near trick you can pull with it too, albeit insanely destructive in the right/wrong hands.
Simply allow some metallic Hg to come into contact with, and remain in contact with an object made of aluminium, aluminium is incredibly reactive, surprisingly, the only reason it doesn't crumble away to powder in the air, is that it almost immediately forms a thin surface layer of oxide (Al2O3) which protects it from further attack.
Amalgamation with mercury destroys that passivating surface film, allowing air to get to it and slowly eat away at it until the entire lot crumbles (bear in mind the result is to a degree, toxic waste, and has to be dumped as such, although one doesn't need much Hg to pull this one off)
Gallium though, or gallium alloys, as some remain liquid at a wider temperature range than pure Ga, will do so far more effectively, with the advantage that gallium isn't highly toxic. Wets metal (and glass), better than Hg will, and with a smear here and there can be used to destroy even quite large aluminium objects/structures.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Lucid lunacy - 01-18-2011 08:48 PM
Heh morty, you must be an old fart, playing around with Hg like that...fun stuff isn't it?
There is another near trick you can pull with it too, albeit insanely destructive in the right/wrong hands.
Simply allow some metallic Hg to come into contact with, and remain in contact with an object made of aluminium, aluminium is incredibly reactive, surprisingly, the only reason it doesn't crumble away to powder in the air, is that it almost immediately forms a thin surface layer of oxide (Al2O3) which protects it from further attack.
Amalgamation with mercury destroys that passivating surface film, allowing air to get to it and slowly eat away at it until the entire lot crumbles (bear in mind the result is to a degree, toxic waste, and has to be dumped as such, although one doesn't need much Hg to pull this one off)
Gallium though, or gallium alloys, as some remain liquid at a wider temperature range than pure Ga, will do so far more effectively, with the advantage that gallium isn't highly toxic. Wets metal (and glass), better than Hg will, and with a smear here and there can be used to destroy even quite large aluminium objects/structures.
I am jealous of your knowledge of Chemistry.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Lestat - 01-18-2011 09:35 PM
Its an autie thing really.
Helpful too, when one is on a really crappy income, to have some skills to fall back on.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Lucid lunacy - 01-18-2011 09:44 PM
I may have used to wrong word... Envy would have been more appropriate.
My special interests is / was neurobiology but I was also quite interested in microbiology, chemistry and physics. ah! the past...
None of them have been of any real use though except for teaching teachers
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Lestat - 01-18-2011 10:42 PM
Cognitive neuroscience is my area of interest really, although biochem also, and along with it, org.chem, botany, mycology.
Going to be teaching myself the basics of genetic engineering when I have time also, although to be able to learn that properly, I need to finish work on a nootropic agent I am part-way through preparing.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - micgrace - 01-18-2011 11:27 PM
Heh morty, you must be an old fart, playing around with Hg like that...fun stuff isn't it?
There is another near trick you can pull with it too, albeit insanely destructive in the right/wrong hands.
Simply allow some metallic Hg to come into contact with, and remain in contact with an object made of aluminium, aluminium is incredibly reactive, surprisingly, the only reason it doesn't crumble away to powder in the air, is that it almost immediately forms a thin surface layer of oxide (Al2O3) which protects it from further attack.
Amalgamation with mercury destroys that passivating surface film, allowing air to get to it and slowly eat away at it until the entire lot crumbles (bear in mind the result is to a degree, toxic waste, and has to be dumped as such, although one doesn't need much Hg to pull this one off)
Gallium though, or gallium alloys, as some remain liquid at a wider temperature range than pure Ga, will do so far more effectively, with the advantage that gallium isn't highly toxic. Wets metal (and glass), better than Hg will, and with a smear here and there can be used to destroy even quite large aluminium objects/structures.
I hope you aren't planning on using an aluminium-mercury amalgam ie as a reducing agent from imine to amine. Its toxic and there are better ones available.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Shoneh - 01-18-2011 11:46 PM
My mother used to smoke, although supposedly not when she was pregnant with me. It would really surprise me if smoking causes autism for the reasons that are cited here, since the DNA would have to be mutated in the reproductive system for it to be passed on to the offspring, and the most severe damage caused by tobacco is generally in the lungs.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - morty - 01-19-2011 12:44 AM
Heh morty, you must be an old fart, playing around with Hg like that...fun stuff isn't it?
There is another near trick you can pull with it too, albeit insanely destructive in the right/wrong hands.
Simply allow some metallic Hg to come into contact with, and remain in contact with an object made of aluminium, aluminium is incredibly reactive, surprisingly, the only reason it doesn't crumble away to powder in the air, is that it almost immediately forms a thin surface layer of oxide (Al2O3) which protects it from further attack.
Amalgamation with mercury destroys that passivating surface film, allowing air to get to it and slowly eat away at it until the entire lot crumbles (bear in mind the result is to a degree, toxic waste, and has to be dumped as such, although one doesn't need much Hg to pull this one off)
Gallium though, or gallium alloys, as some remain liquid at a wider temperature range than pure Ga, will do so far more effectively, with the advantage that gallium isn't highly toxic. Wets metal (and glass), better than Hg will, and with a smear here and there can be used to destroy even quite large aluminium objects/structures.
I am an old fart, and I do remember reducing dimes to powder just by rubbing mercury in them and leaving them alone. Good times!
I have all those yummy amalgam fillings in my poor old teeth, too.
Just smilin' through, sappily happy to be me.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Lestat - 01-19-2011 01:55 AM
Mic...well meh, it is cheap, at least that has to be said for it....ahhh the stuff I did as a kid...is it any bloody wonder I am autistic?
I have to say, given my last experience with it, I think I am becoming quite appreciative of the ease and cleanliness of the last time I did one, which wasn't that long ago, where possible, of oxime to amine using Fe/Zn and GAA REALLY works a treat (or as it happened, albeit slowly, last time, Al/HCOOH...yes, I know, I know, I hadn't much else to hand)
Got my 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-gamma-amino-2-methylpropane out of the rxn mixture as nice, shiny white crystals after just a wash with denatured EtOH after reduction of helional oxime using the aforementioned Al/formic, took bloody ages though since I didn't have a decent means to activate the Al (not that I fancy being next to such a reduction using activated Al, when it is in the form of micron-sized powder....not when that little bugger kicks, I don't have a vat of liquid N2 handy to cool it quickly enough in order not to wear it as a suit
Still haven't got around to assaying it for activity though..not sure totally weather to expect a SSRI, 5HT releaser, or maybe triple monoamine reuptake inhibitor.
Although my work towards one of the AMPAkines is a higher priority, I just bought a really neat one-piece 5-ml flask, built in air condenser and distillation head with built in water-cooled reflux condenser, just £8 specifically for that.
I am getting pretty annoyed at labpak scientific though...I ordered a liter each of propionyl chloride and benzoyl chloride two bloody weeks ago from them, still hasn't got here, I think I might have to shoot them a pestering email.
As for fillings...bah ugly things, although maybe we at AFF could, given a collective effort, kick off the next great autism epidemic 'scare' story...every time a filling-owner talks...a baby turns autistic.
Oh I am awful, I know, but it would be bloody funny if we could get them to buy it.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - AspieMomma - 01-19-2011 03:40 AM
Aren't less people smoking now than in previous years? Everyone smoked 70 years ago, at least in the U.S. I'd venture to guess that the autism rates in Russia are much lower than in the U.S. because of more advanced applications of psychology in the U.S., yet a much larger percentage of the Russian population smokes compared to the population in the U.S.
Perhaps the lack of smoking is causing the rise in autism rates. Maybe more people should start lighting up! (sarcasm)
People are going to find a scapegoat, even if it is completely illogical.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - AspieMomma - 01-19-2011 03:55 AM
China has reported incidences of autism as 1.1/1000 here vs. 1/110 cases in the U.S.
24% of Americans reported smoking within the past week, vs. 33% in China, as reported in a gallup poll here.
So if more people in China are smoking, then why nearly 10 times less autism than in the U.S.?
I'm sure it has nothing to do with our heightened awareness of autism and superior medical practices. (more sarcasm)
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - d_olson27 - 01-19-2011 06:33 AM
Let's just put it this way: this makes even less sense than the vaccine thing. I will admit that the effect of this one would be beneficial to society, as opposed to leaving millions of children vulnerable to diseases that we haven't seen in generations.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - MindMatter - 01-19-2011 09:38 AM
If it means that less pregnant women will smoke and less parents will smoke around their children, then I don't think it's such a bad thing...
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - micgrace - 01-19-2011 10:52 AM
I have to say, given my last experience with it, I think I am becoming quite appreciative of the ease and cleanliness of the last time I did one, which wasn't that long ago, where possible, of oxime to amine using Fe/Zn and GAA REALLY works a treat (or as it happened, albeit slowly, last time, Al/HCOOH...yes, I know, I know, I hadn't much else to hand)
Got my 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-gamma-amino-2-methylpropane out of the rxn mixture as nice, shiny white crystals after just a wash with denatured EtOH after reduction of helional oxime using the aforementioned Al/formic, took bloody ages though since I didn't have a decent means to activate the Al (not that I fancy being next to such a reduction using activated Al, when it is in the form of micron-sized powder....not when that little bugger kicks, I don't have a vat of liquid N2 handy to cool it quickly enough in order not to wear it as a suit
Still haven't got around to assaying it for activity though..not sure totally weather to expect a SSRI, 5HT releaser, or maybe triple monoamine reuptake inhibitor.
Although my work towards one of the AMPAkines is a higher priority, I just bought a really neat one-piece 5-ml flask, built in air condenser and distillation head with built in water-cooled reflux condenser, just £8 specifically for that.
I am getting pretty annoyed at labpak scientific though...I ordered a liter each of propionyl chloride and benzoyl chloride two bloody weeks ago from them, still hasn't got here, I think I might have to shoot them a pestering email.
As for fillings...bah ugly things, although maybe we at AFF could, given a collective effort, kick off the next great autism epidemic 'scare' story...every time a filling-owner talks...a baby turns autistic.
Oh I am awful, I know, but it would be bloody funny if we could get them to buy it.
Watch that benzoyl they are pretty noxious ie some reactions produce nice clouds of HCl esp with amines and the like.
I prefer protecting groups and Grignard reagents. Mg + Et2O (or THF) + alkane-X of some sort. Easy to do, but they hate water. Then just kick off the protecting groups.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - micgrace - 01-19-2011 11:06 AM
I must say I was up to my armpits in chem today. Except mine is concerned with a world first gold coating of ZnO. You think I could find any isopropyl bromide for a Grignard,to make diisopropylzinc via metallation, NOPE. And the ordering system is down. So I did my idea a completely different way and it worked. Now the hard work. NMR, IR, UV-VIS, TEM, SEM and floresence. Then publish again. I invented a new theory and proved it experimentally and called it "Surface inner sphere electron transfer mechanism" which made todays work a piece of cake. It should be published soon.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - AspieMomma - 01-19-2011 04:41 PM
I agree 100%, it would be great if it helped motivate people to quit smoking.
My problem with it is twofold:
1. It is incorrect, and misinformatin grates on my nerves. But more importantly, 2. it is going to cause parental guilt that is unwarranted, only there is no "Big Pharma" or government to blame as was the case with vaccines. That is a huge amount of guilt to carry for no reason.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Vampslord - 01-19-2011 05:54 PM
I think the point is to releave parents guilt. Now they can blame it on the big bad cigarets companies that poison their children. They needed a scape goat, vaccinne wasn't there anymore, so they found another one. Everything to not have to look at genetic, cause if it's genetic, then it is the parents "fault".
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - windy - 01-19-2011 06:16 PM
Since the vaccine-link was discredited, it seems people are once more grasping at straws, and this latest one is about how a person's smoking may cause autism in their children. Not side-stream smoke, but that the chemicals in the cigarettes may damage the individual's DNA and cause them to have autistic offspring.
Personally, I think it's a load of old dingoes kidneys, but I've known people who swear that's the reason for the rise in autism, because more and more people are smoking.
What do others think of this? Did/do your parents smoke? For the record, mine never did.
Alison
I had not smoked for about 8 years before my son was born.
My mom smoked while pregnant with me -both my mom and dad smoked... Dads brother is an aspie -(mathematician professor) neither parents nor grandparents smoked...
smoking correlating with autism is total bunk.
my husbands parents did not smoke -
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Lestat - 01-19-2011 08:14 PM
I have smoked, I quit, now a habit is threatening again to develop, that I need to step on quickly, thanks to all my recent stress over the vermin known here as 'fire'
Mic, no worries about the halides, which as it happened, got here today. there are worse things by far than HCl, I would rather HCl than say, PH3, HF, Me2SO4. Besides, given my preliminary tests on the AMPAkine drug will be working on a 500mg/1g scale, calculated from the starting piperazine monohydrochloride, that really is a minimal quantity of gas to scrub.
What is the reason for coating ZnO in Au? studying atomic arrangement for some sort of catalytic reactions?
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - micgrace - 01-20-2011 12:02 AM
No. I am doing SERS with BTEX, which is a first. ie surface enhanced Raman spectroscopy using benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene and xylene. The gold on the ZnO is a stepping stone towards a full blown gas sensor and my doctorate. Its all by publication and the gold on ZnO is one of them which no-one has done successfully (except me). I managed it yesterday in one go. Believe me you don't want to do a doctorate in chemistry, its **** hard.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - MindMatter - 01-20-2011 02:59 AM
I agree 100%, it would be great if it helped motivate people to quit smoking.
My problem with it is twofold:
1. It is incorrect, and misinformatin grates on my nerves. But more importantly, 2. it is going to cause parental guilt that is unwarranted, only there is no "Big Pharma" or government to blame as was the case with vaccines. That is a huge amount of guilt to carry for no reason.
I tend to think parents who smoke during pregnancy and around their young children deserve to feel guilty. There is enough evidence out there to know that it is going to harm your children. If it takes an autism scare to make those people stop being so selfish, then so be it. They don't seem to listen to anything else.
That's something that really gets on my nerves - seeing pregnant women smoke. I remember when I was pregnant and pulled up outside the maternity clinic, there was a pregnant lady smoking with her two young children right beside her. I felt like slapping her.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - d_olson27 - 01-20-2011 04:40 AM
I tend to think parents who smoke during pregnancy and around their young children deserve to feel guilty. There is enough evidence out there to know that it is going to harm your children. If it takes an autism scare to make those people stop being so selfish, then so be it. They don't seem to listen to anything else.
That's something that really gets on my nerves - seeing pregnant women smoke. I remember when I was pregnant and pulled up outside the maternity clinic, there was a pregnant lady smoking with her two young children right beside her. I felt like slapping her.
I agree with both of you, except in that I don't really like an autism scare being used to influence behavior, no matter how beneficial. The only theory about the cause of autism that makes any sense to me at all is that it's genetic.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - MindMatter - 01-20-2011 06:55 AM
I agree with you, that the cause of autism is genetic. It's common to see symptoms in parents and grandparents... you can trace it back.
I've heard so many things that are used to scare parents into making a decision so their child doesn't get autism. When I was in hospital with my son, I was horrified to hear a midwife telling a new mother that if she breastfed her baby the risk of autism was reduced. There are so many things going around that after awhile it seems too big to fight... I don't like misinformation either, but it seems like it's a losing battle. People seem to want to accept any theory about what causes autism, except that it is genetic.... I figured the smoking one was the only one I'd heard so far that was actually beneficial.... Eventually I hope that the real cause of autism is accepted by society and people stop being so scared, but it may take awhile.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - d_olson27 - 01-20-2011 07:05 AM
I think the breastfeeding one you mentioned is beneficial. My point is that using the 'threat of autism' to scare people into anything actually does us harm. I know it seems like a losing battle, but I notice that we're not being entirely ignored anymore. It's small, but it's a start.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - MindMatter - 01-20-2011 07:15 AM
I think the breastfeeding one does more harm than good. There is already so much pressure to breastfeed that women don't need to compound that with more guilt. The woman she told that to already had a 3 year old autistic child, so I just felt that was horrible that that woman might have thought her choice not to breastfeed her child for 'the right amount of time' had any impact on that child having autism.
The smoking thing is different because there is absolute proof that smoking does harm your baby and your young children. Anyone still doing it has most likely been told it will harm their baby and has ignored the advice.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - d_olson27 - 01-20-2011 07:18 AM
Point taken on the breastfeeding.
As for the smoking, why not discourage that with actual facts that can be backed up with real data and stories about actual people? I think that would do a lot more good than making things up that don't make sense when you start to think about it.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - AspieMomma - 01-22-2011 04:38 AM
I agree 100%, it would be great if it helped motivate people to quit smoking.
My problem with it is twofold:
1. It is incorrect, and misinformatin grates on my nerves. But more importantly, 2. it is going to cause parental guilt that is unwarranted, only there is no "Big Pharma" or government to blame as was the case with vaccines. That is a huge amount of guilt to carry for no reason.
I tend to think parents who smoke during pregnancy and around their young children deserve to feel guilty. There is enough evidence out there to know that it is going to harm your children. If it takes an autism scare to make those people stop being so selfish, then so be it. They don't seem to listen to anything else.
That's something that really gets on my nerves - seeing pregnant women smoke. I remember when I was pregnant and pulled up outside the maternity clinic, there was a pregnant lady smoking with her two young children right beside her. I felt like slapping her.
True. But they should worry more about low birth weight and chronic lung problems than autism. Smoking is bad during pregnancy, no question. But if it is implied that smoking prior to pregnancy causes autism, it isn't warranted.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - AspieMomma - 01-22-2011 04:42 AM
Also - I agree that the pressure to breastfeed is obnoxious. The time after a birth of a child is the most difficult mentally for any woman. Other than a death or other tragedy, you're more emotional at this time than any other time in your life, and its often not good emotions. You don't need that extra guilt.
I was physically unable to nurse my kids. I have a rare breast problem because of some hormonal problems i have. Apparently its not uncommon in women with PCOS. I was very dedicated to nurse and was crushed by not being able to. It was tough.
No doubt that its the best possible option as its free and nutritious, but its OK not to if its best for all parties, or simply impossible.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Alison - 01-22-2011 05:55 AM
I could and did breast feed for the first three months, but after that my daughter simply refused to suckle. She was fine with a bottle, but for some reason wouldn't take breast. So I swapped to formula in a bottle and weaned her early onto solids, and she is perfectly healthy.
Alison
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - AspieMomma - 01-22-2011 06:01 AM
I produced some milk, but it was thin like skim milk, and not nearly enough. I pumped for a while with each kid, about 3 months, but it was hardly worth it, there was so little. Aspie kiddo would have nothing to do with it, he was a voracious, gigantic baby! My oldest was a sleepy, smallish baby, and I was worried about him getting enough fat b/c he was a few weeks early. Aspie kiddo also wanted solids early, his first solid food was pie. He was frantic to have a bite! He would have nothing to do with bottles of baby food like my oldest would eat, he wanted the real thing.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - micgrace - 01-22-2011 11:55 PM
Niether child of ours was breast fed. My wife had a go with our son, but was unsuccessful so gave up the idea of breast feeding. Actually he refused to suckle and had to be force fed for a few weeks in the hospital.
RE: Smoking and autistic babies! - Lestat - 01-23-2011 02:20 AM
I need to fix my memory before I get a qualification in anything :/