who is mother nature?

not a who.....everything... the universe....all

so is mother nature a god of yours?

If anyone felt the earth move there, it didn't.  I just shifted the thread.

i first looked for a religion section, didn't see it sorry.

technically correct , most of the time . There are earthquakes occasionally where there are no fault lines .

Like when this thread shifted forums.

no......

i am confused... i am not sure who this person is.

may be marcia

Jesus was a person. Mother Nature ( just a name, for lack of a better one) has no body and is not a person. More of an idea than anything.

google can be useful...

That would be God zilla

LOL!  

I always loved Terry Pratchett's line about pigeons: "It stared down at them with its mad little eyes, remembering long ago when its ancestors had been huge toothy reptiles who could finish off these sons of monkeys in one bite."
Alison

Hey, blame Terry, not me - he's the one making the money out of it!  I still love the line, whether it evolved or not.  

Alison

...nobody ever claimed that a dog became a cat, or a cat became a dog.

Likewise, nobody reputable ever claimed we evolved from Chimpanzees - we evolved from a common ancestor, yes, but they are merely one of our closest cousins.

Exactly.  

Dogs evolved from wolves, only it was humans that did the evolving, with selective breeding.  Just like draughthorses, pit-ponies and race-horses were selectively bred for specific purposes, in the former, for (originally) the strength to carry fully-armored knights into battle, in the case of the race-horse individuals were selected for speed and mated to each other to produce fast offspring, and in the case of pit ponies for small stature with good stamina to work hauling coal trucks up from the mines.  

And natural selection works in the same ways, to make an animal more fit for the environment it finds itself in.  Because those that don't evolve to fit the environment die out.  Such is evidenced by the recent discovery in the arctic of dwarf mammoths.  As the last Ice Age ended, their environment was dwindling and dwarfism let these particular representatives of an Ice Age animal hang on for a little while longer, past the end of the last Ice Age and a few thousand years later.

Alison

Ever heard of genetics?

We are very far from the only specie to have some form of communication.

I agree with Creationism as well.  I do see a connection to Revelation and the earthquakes. The scripture explains why there have been so many earthquakes lately, happening at a rather worrying frequency.

I like your point here.

i said language not communication. when my dogs are out of food they pounce me, they physically hurt me until i feed them. i have no issue with that. but my one dog cannot ask my other dog if they like the squirrel outside more then the rabbit.

i am not trying to say the world will end tomarrow, but i am saying we are closer today. For no man knows the day or the hour, only God the father knows.

I've kept that in mind. I wasn't suggesting that the world will end tomorrow, but these are signs of the end being near.

But what about whales?

i love them, very pretty. hope to see humpback this year off long island sound. however the link you gave says

agree completely, everything is coming together, i really hope for my own sake the rapture happens in my life time.

"We're still very far from knowing the meaning of whale songs," he admits.

Maybe we're not so smart after all...

That's um, evolution exactly.

Canis lupus lupus evolved into Canis lupus familiaris because we made it - CLF adapted perfectly to a niche within human society, whilst CLL was hunted to extinction in my country. Natural Selection in action.

you could call it micro evolution if you want to, but its the same thing as i said, it has not changed into something else, its form has been changed slightly.

It's form has changed - the amount is irrelevant, evolution on the scale you're thinking takes millions of years, we've only had a few thousand to domesticate Canis Lupus Familaris.

Evolution is a proven fact, but it takes a lot of time.

its actually still a theory.  we domesticated a wolf, we did not create something new. the type of change has everything to do with it. inter species changes are completely ok and this does not disprove creation. God had the for site to create animals that can adapt.

as far as Christians agreeing or disagreeing on different things they always have different views, some don't believe the bible is entirely true. my personal belief is God gave us what we need to know and kept many things a mystery, if we had every answer it would not take faith to believe it. if every rock we turned over said "made by God in Heaven" their would still be doubters. i think God DID sign every living thing, with DNA.

awesome, last year i delivered parts to a plant in iowa that uses bugs to make plastics. gene modification is very cool, i believe its Biblical.  
God says we have dominion over animals. basically that means we can do what we want with them. so very cool.

he is also very good at chess

i love dogs,

so is she related to....


evolution would say so.

Alas, until you become a dog yourself, you can't claim that...

It is not a referential you know, hence you can't say wether they do or not. It is for the same reason that it shows great stupidity to say a dog is stupid because he/she doesn't get that it's not a real dog that is in the tv...

The use of the word "dominion" in Genesis, where it is written that God gives man dominion over all creatures, is controversial. Many Biblical scholars, especially Roman Catholic and other non-Protestant Christians, consider this to be a flawed translation of a word meaning "stewardship", which would indicate that mankind should take care of the earth and its various forms of life, but is not inherently better than any other form of life.[8] The current Latin Vulgate, the official Bible of the Catholic Christian church, states that God holds man responsible for the care and fate of all earthly creatures.

Or many others would call it playing god... It's all opinion based, thus baseless...

sources please? I'd love to see where you get that from.

Somehow, I'd be willing to bet it comes from nowhere...

My own church, which is Protestant, would go with the "stewardship" interpretation.  It is our duty to care for the created world, not to exploit and plunder it for our own selfish and short-sighted purposes.

yeah - but with dominion comes responsibility and we don't do that well

We're all related on a cellular level, yes.

WTF's 'the rapture'?

Catholics also believe that the Eucharist becomes the actual body of Jesus Christ. they have many beliefs i do not share.
i am not Catholic. the translation i read says dominion. that's my belief.

what religion were/are you?

Your claims are both baseless and uneducated and you know it...

you should rephrase that, that is an attack.
if you wish to state you dont like my opinion, or dont agree with it fine, but dont attack me for my beliefs and i will return the favor.

You come here claiming that there are more earthquake and that it is a sign of rapture when you don't even know how many earthquakes there are per year, if there's an increase and even if there was, if there was a logical explanation for it. As it turns out, based the US Geological Survey National Earthquake Information Center, it is constant within the last few years.

My point is you know nothing and have researched nothing about geology, seismology, biology, genetics yet you make ridicoulous claims. You have absolutely no sources to back you up but insist on keeping this charade going.

i will make whatever claims i want, you don't like them, sod off.

Ah! So you admit you have absolutely nothing that supports your claims.

To be honest, I have nothing against beliefs. It is when someone tries to make them seem like facts that I react.

So is humanity allowed to use the cloning technique? Humans are appointed rulers over ‘the fish of the sea and over the fowl [birds] of the air and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth’ (Genesis 1:28). So I see no reason why it should not be used in plants and animals. Especially where there is a benefit to mankind, such as less hunger or disease. Christ’s example indicates that things (such as healing, binding wounds, peace-making, and feeding the hungry) which oppose the effects of the Curse are ‘blessed.’

When humans breed wheat that can be cultivated in cold areas, or use artificial selection to get cows yielding more milk, we are also ‘manipulating nature.’ But of course, few would (or should) oppose such intervention. I think that God’s instruction to humans to subdue the earth (Genesis 1:28) also allows for cloning.

its a good read for those whom are interested.

i am not debating it with you at all. no admittance of anything, i am not discussing it with you. period. make whatever assumptions about me you would like, and i hope God blesses you.

jesus turned water into wine when it suited him

he also dabbled in cloning with some bread and fish

It provides one perspective among many, and I do note that Dr Ian Wilmot's name is spelled incorrectly.

Until Constantin made his meeting and decided of the role and importance of Jesus, many thought the teachings of Jesus weren't meant to be taken literally...

we are only persecuted compared to where we were 50 years ago.

also in china Christians are killed.

Christians cannot express their beliefs publicly without being shouted at, spat on, called names, and sometimes killed. the small minority of people in America that hate Christians will run them, and them alone into the ground. they tolerate anyone but Christians. its hard to explain.  its not unbearable, but its getting worse. we won a victory when it was ruled under God belongs in the pledge, and in God we trust can be left on bills.

The christain church is more  church of Paul , Constantine , and the Council of Nicea, than it is about the jewish person named Jesus.

What I feel when my preschool class volunteers to pick up the blocks and then does it quietly.  It's never happened in all my years of teaching, but I *believe*, I truly do, that one day I'll live to see it!

Alison

Sources other than faux news, please.

http://www.worthynews.com/7531-news-alert-street-preachers-killed-in-united-states

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/two-men-preaching-religion-shot-to-death-in-211257.html?imw=Y

Yes, China as well.  I gave only three examples of the many countries where Christians live in real fear and danger of violence and persecution which is often state sanctioned and encouraged or tacitly condoned.

I am not an American and from what I understand of the US, Christianity and the state have a quite different relationship from what I am accustomed to in Scotland.  It is my perspective, and one that is shared by many here, that in the US the Stars and Stripes have been wrapped round the cross in a way that is quite alien to us, and for far too long.

You live in a culture, secular and religious, which is very different from mine.  I find it hard to comprehend the religious right in the US which does seem to be very powerful, although from what you say, perhaps less so now.

As I said, Christendom is no more, and Christians shouldn't expect any privileged position in society or within the establishment.  Christianity is radical, not part of the status quo.

sorry that is right wing propaganda , in my opinion. The message is bent. you have to consider the source.

are there any BBC or CBC links concerning this.

as far as the Palm Beach Story goes. That was just a crime. Murders , nothing more. Christains die everyday as a result of crime.

That is dreadful, but I don't see that it amounts to persecution.

Unfortunately, many people are victim to random acts of violence and sometimes Christians will be victims.  It's not an organised, state sponsored or deliberate campaign of violence and intimidation against all Christians, or certain denominations, solely because of their faith.

this is not GB. we don't have a BBC.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=rcO&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=street+preacher+killed&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

its not fake propaganda, its moronic to think so.

palm beach post is not a christian site.

Semi-irrelevant - you started with the victim/persecution complex crap, I'm just upping the ante a couple of steps.

Let's face the facts here; you're not persecuted. Not even close.

Wanna retract that statement?

In america if you choose to be non-christain , you are then spat upon. I freaking know that personally

why would i retract it, i provided proof.
gays are not accepted because its not natural. everyone has temptation in their lives, some choose to overcome it, some embrace the temptation and make a lifestyle of it. homosexuals are attracted to the same sex, and some choose to act on it. not everyone can or will accept or tolerate it. i believe they use to be jailed for it.
pedophiles are attracted to children, people say thats not acceptable, so they are jailed, they are attempting to be accepted now, (see nambla) i think in 30-50 years they will be the ones getting their asses kick outside bars.
there are place for people like these two types to meet. outside those areas they cannot expect to be accepted.
nambla for the pedo, gay bars, and communities, for the homo's.

we have areas here in America for such unnatural lifestyles to commune, see Providencetown MA. i would assume they must have them in the UK as well.

Ok, you just compared me to a paedophile.

Hell, you just compared a load of my friends to a paedophile.

Luckily, I don't live in a society as stupid as the one you seem to want to live in.

No no no, you don't get off that lightly.

Normally, I'd give you a chewing out and verbally abuse you for this, but you know what?

You're not worth my time, so I'm just going to go ahead and hand you a caution for making personal attacks on me, Zodrau, Patrice, Teeth, Bardwolf, Niall.

Each.

That's six cautions, two warnings.

Enjoy.

i don't care. i didn't take the thread here. i don't care if you ban me, if i get banned or otherwise persecuted for my beliefs its an honor.

You made the comparison, you take the consequences for your words, you disgusting little bigot.

Again, you know absolutely nothing about genes. Don't claim otherwise.

Sources please? I'd love to see where you get that homosexuality is unnatural. I have a feeling it comes out of nowhere again.

Lol... Are we really supposed to take that seriously?

facepalm...

Nope, I referenced a scientific study about penguins - I can get citations if you'd like.

Also, what's this lower life form crap? Don't think I mentioned Fundies in that post.

fundie is a new word for me tonight, i will research it and reply when i have a better understanding of the word.

It is short for fundamentalist. Not exactly pejorative AFAIK, just fewer syllables.

It's short for fundamentalist.  It's not a term generally applied to religious people.  Rather it refers to those who have an extremely literal, narrow interpretation of the Bible, Qu'ran, what have you, and which often manifests itself in a very intolerant and prejudiced view of people, and their lives.

It is usually pejorative.

No, it's a short word for someone who is, well, fundamentalist.

You know, like the Westboro Baptist Church, and Al-Qaeda

Ah, OK, did not know that. I have used it to mean "fundamentalist."

I am asexual, yet I have to protest that. But thats your belief.
nevertheless

i was asexual once, but i realized it was because of the meds i was on.

I am , because it is me.

i would have to study the meaning further to know if i would apply it to myself, however i do believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible, and i do not like sin. i am intolerant of sin, but would not hesitate for one second if i saw a gay was in peril to help them. if i saw a group of people beating a person whom was gay to death i would do everything in my power to help, but i would not be afraid to tell the gay person about Jesus once he or she was out of peril. God says we are to love everyone, and we are to love those who hate us, so thats everyone. nowhere in the Bible does it say "God hates fags" so that group of wacko's calling themselves "christian" are sinning just by saying that. as a sinner i would love to beat the living piss out of them for saying such negative things about God, but i would be no better then them at that point.

Not being anthropocentric, I don't think he did.

Please, please, PLEASE do a spell check before posting.  I'm begging here.  I'm hyperlexic, and reading your posts is akin to having my nails pulled out.  

As an example, I've taken the liberty of correcting here:

Yes, yes, I know.  Gay gene, no choice, etc.  It's all over the left-leaning news channels.  In the end, it's your own choice.  

As you can see from the above example, it's not difficult.  Just take a moment, remember that capital letters come at the front of the first word of a sentence, and that the common apostrophe can be your friend.  

If God is omnipotent, then he is also hyperlexic.  So we're both wincing here.  

Alison

Here we go, hot from Wiki:

"Homosexual interactions in lionesses are ofter initiated by one female pursuing another and crawling under her to encourage the other female to mount her. When mounting another female, a lioness displays a number of behaviors also associated with heterosexual mating, including gently biting the mountee on the neck, growling, making pelvic thrusts, and rolling on her own back afterward. Sometimes lionesses take turns mounting each other-two lionesses were observed mounting each other three times over two days. Some females react aggressively to homosexual overtures.


"Amoung males, homosexual activity often begins with a great deal of affectionate activity. Initially, this begins as a standard greeting, but goes beyond this to include cirling one another, presentation of the hindquarters to the other male, and rolling on the back with an erect penis. This may lead to intense carressing and eventually mounting of one male by the other, including pelvic thrusting. Sometimes three males may rub and roll together, mounting each other in turn."


There were some photos of them all getting it on in the African savannah, but I couldn't manage to load them.  I'm not about to tell those boys and girls they're being unnatural: they have huge teeth at one end!

Alison

Indeed, it could be said that humans would be UNnatural if we didn't have some homosexual behaviour.
Alison

sorry, my spelling is so atrocious, that my spell checker goes HUH?

if you think we are an animal then sure, in the same effect we can now, eat our young, eat each other, consume afterbirth, abandon our children if they have birth defects, eat our own feces, eat other animals feces, go naked 24/7, pee on things in public, poop in public in the park, throw feces at each other, masturbate in public, the list keeps going on. how many of these things would you want to occur in your neighborhood? on your front lawn?

sorry, but we are not animals. if we were, then we could compare ourselves to my two dogs, who are both females and hump each other all the time. God has told us we ARE different, you believing in a laughable chain of events called evolution, does not change the facts that we are not nor were we ever animals.

if there is no God, and we have evolved from animals, i digress to my original connection, that someone gay, pedo, or eating your young should all be accepted, because we after all are just animals right? so murder must be right as well. if there is no absolute truth then there is no right and wrong.

I make that at the very least Check, if not mate.

"Morality is impossible without god". Again, this is a common attack on Atheists, and it's utter bollocks.

Well, good on you, Scoobert, for being willing to put yourself at risk to help someone who's getting a beating.  There's not all that many who would do that.

I do take issue though, with you saying that you would then "tell the gay person about Jesus", because being gay doesn't mean that the person doesn't already know and have a relationship with Jesus.  As I've already said, there are gay Christians and clergy.  Many, probably all, of those people have experienced the hurt of rejection by the church which claims to love them.

I appreciate that you come from a completely different theological position from me, but this was something I had to say.

sadly its an assumption displayed in the media all the time. i would say if you walked into my church, as a guy, in a dress, you would be welcomed with open arms. i have actually wanted to try this for some time and film the results on local brethren churches. that's my denomination. did you know some churches would shun a black person still? we had black people in our congregation for many years, in fact i don't even know where they came from, we lived in a very white region of Pennsylvania. they were welcomed by everyone. can't say i have ever seen an openly gay person in our church, but if they would have come in, they would have been welcomed as well. we don't send anyone away.
during the time Jesus spent on this earth, one of the lowliest people were tax collectors and whores, Jesus welcomed them both in, and rebuked anyone who had an issue with it. that's how its is suppose to be.

Strawman, Ad Hominem.

Because I LOVE rolling around in badger poo.

Fun fact for the day - primates display morality. They don't like cheats, and if one of them steals, the rest will shun it.

watch out for the honey badger.

ah here is mine...

We believe ...

    * in the word-by-word inspiration and divine authority of the Holy Scriptures.
    * in one God, eternally existing in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
    * in the Lord Jesus Christ as true God and true man; His virgin birth, spotless humanity, vicarious death, bodily resurrection, present advocacy; and His personal, imminent, bodily, visible, pretribulation and premillennial return for His Church.
    * in the fall of man, resulting in his complete and universal separation from God, and his need of salvation.
    * that the Lord Jesus Christ died and shed His blood as a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world.
    * that salvation is a free and everlasting gift of God, entirely apart from works; that every person is responsible to receive salvation by personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; that a soul once saved can never be lost.
    * that the Holy Spirit regenerates with divine life and personally indwells the believer upon his faith in Christ for salvation.
    * in the bodily resurrection of both the saved and the unsaved.
    * in the unending life of the saved with the Lord, and the unending punishment of the unsaved.
    * in the responsibility of each believer, motivated by the love of Christ and empowered by the Holy Spirit, to witness for Christ and to live sacrificially for the proclamation of the Gospel into all the world.
    * in believer's baptism by immersion.

He commanded us to love our neighbour as He loved us.

the church messed up a good thing ,with its interpretation of his life.

your being too vague.

originally apostolic - now non-aligned - but closer to god the father, god the son and god the holy ghost than i have been in my entire life - what religion were/are you?

This seems to be a bit of a personal attack...

Just so it is understood by all (from wikipedia):
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument toward the person" or "argument against the person"), is an argument which links the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise. The ad hominem argument is not a fallacy despite there being fallacious instances of the argument. Fallacious instances of the ad hominem argument are presented below.

I believe it is "dont throw rocks , if you live in a glass house."

Lol... as if that could be compared...

Fallacy: doubtful causal link (or whatever they are called in english)
Just because acid is bad, doesn't mean homosexuality is.... There is no link between acid and homosexuality.

Fallacy: Appeal to the majority:
Just because it is a common assumption doesn't make it true. There are no more STDs in the homosexual population than in the rest. Having any kind of sex is risky.

Fallacy: strawman.
As I wrote earlier, it is not my position. You are attacking a fictional position.

never said it was linked, both are enjoyable by people whom do them.
dont draw lines between dots that don't exist.

fallacy: failed to do research before calling something an untrue common assumption.
http://www.avert.org/usa-transmission-gender.htm

Neuroendocrine Hypotheses
In 1999, Dr. Qazi Rahman compiled a brief review of several studies purporting to show a link
between neuroanatomy and sexual orientation.56
He wrote: “The emerging neuroanatomical account suggests that, in some key neural substrates,
homosexual men show a trend toward female-typical neuroanatomy as compared to heterosexual
men.”57
Rahman also said, “Lesbians excel at some tasks which favor heterosexual males.”
As in the eye-blinking study, Rahman struck a cautionary note: “But is neuroendocrine
differentiation a cause or a consequence of behavior? … In addition, the differential
development posited may not be causal but correlational.”
Rahman noted that, “Differential reinforcements from inputs in the psychosocial milieu to these
sex-atypical behaviors makes the ‘pre-homosexual child’ view the same sex as ‘exotic’ (i.e.,
different from one’s self), which later in puberty becomes the object of eroticization.”58
As some developmental psychologists have observed, some children may be less inclined to
exhibit classic gender role differences, and this may set them up for the type of reactions from
peers (or even parents), such as rejection or teasing, that make them vulnerable to developing
same-sex attraction.59
One glaring problem with Rahman’s article is that he uncritically cites many of the studies that
were thoroughly debunked by researchers such as Columbia’s Byne and Parsons. These include
studies by LeVay, Hamer, Allen, Gorski, Bailey and others.
Rahman wraps up his piece this way:
To conclude, it is important to illustrate that neurobiological differences between
homosexuals and heterosexuals are by no means decisive. Nonetheless, the several
independent findings of neuroanatomical differences in sex-atypical directions are not
easily refutable. [Editor’s note: Yes, they are. Byne and Parsons, among others, saw to
that.] Unfortunately, evidence currently available is limited and largely correlational in
nature. Owing to this, it is not possible for alternative developmental processes associated
with sexual orientation to be excluded.60
56 Qazi Rahman, “Comments on the Neuroanatomy of Human Sexual Orientation and Proposed Neuroendocrine Hypotheses,”
Journal of Contemporary Neurology, The MIT Press, Vol. 1999, No. 2A.
57 Ibid,, p. 2.
58 Ibid, p. 3.
59 Numerous references to this phenomenon are reported throughout Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D., Reparative Therapy of Male
Homosexuality (Northvale, New Jersey: Jason Aronson, Inc., 1991).
60 Rahman, op. cit., p. 3.

Yet, you imply that. That is called False attribution (yes, another fallacy).  Even if you say that isn't true that leaves you committing another fallacy: Irrelevant conclusion

Of course, if you can explain how saying that in this context wasn't made to make a link between the two, I'm listening.

Wrong. From the same source:
http://www.avert.org/hiv-aids-africa.htm

Two-thirds of all people infected with HIV live in sub-Saharan Africa, although this region contains little more than 10% of the world’s population.

Around 390,000 children in sub-Saharan Africa became infected with HIV in 2008.The vast majority of these children have been infected with HIV during pregnancy, childbirth or breastfeeding, as a result of their mother being infected with the virus.

Sub-Saharan Africa is more heavily affected by HIV and AIDS than any other region of the world. An estimated 22.4 million people are living with HIV in the region - around two thirds of the global total.

Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. The biggest factor is the birth of children from parents with it without antivirals

Also, again, from the same site:
In the UK, it is the same. There are no more cases from homosexuals than heterosexuals. Not only that; it says that in 2003, 64% of the new infections were from heterosexuals.
http://www.avert.org/uk-transmission-route.htm

Oops, nearly forgot that one.
Fallacyemanding negative proof

Fallacy: argument from ignorance.

Also, this is a waste of time. I won't reply anymore.

All very good, valid points, kevout2.  Plus I thought I'd add to the above comment you made about gays not being able to reproduce.  

Think for a moment about a stone-age tribe, several close-knit families all living together.  A gay male would most likely have brothers and sisters who have children.  

In that scenario, he'd do a lot to keep his nieces and nephews safe from harm, as they are genetically related to him.  

Thus, the children would have not only their mother and father (assuming he's still around, this is the stone-age after all!) and any grandparents, but also an uncle they can rely upon to keep them safe, sheltered and fed, plus perhaps the uncle's male partner.  

A child with a wide support network is going to fare better in such a society than one who has only one or two (or no) adults to help.

And that's they way that the uncle's gay gene would be carried on into the future.  Interestingly, there has been research done showing that the number of gay males and females have remained reasonably constant over the decades, and that the number tallies exceedingly well with just such "familial" passing-on of genes.

Alison

the sad thing is, outside the church community a homosexual cannot get treated. if its ever transferred back to mental health status, as it should be, then someone seeking treatment could get professional treatment. i would bet there are suicides all the time because they can't find help. if it is a result of bad parenting, i don't see the parents being a big help once a person realized these feelings.

if it is reclassified a mental health issue noone would be hurt. aspergers even has a movement in it, we all should know about, that says i have aspergers, and i don't want to change. it would be the same way for homo's. they will say, i have homosexuality, and don't want to change. but if they want to change is available.

therapy will help with that. the younger you are the better. i have been offered several group programs. teaching you how to talk properly ECT.

what i have personally done is memorize scripts, (doctor says its abnormal for someone with aspergers to recognize help is needed on their own), these scripts are for each indivuial situation.

phone calls. (from friend)
hello,
hi, how are you,
i am fine, how are you,
(lissen to dribble and agree with them one way or the other)
well thats just great, so whats up?
(now they tell me why they really called)
after caller is finished blathering on,
well thanks for calling, have a great rest of the day, goodbye now.

thou i must admit i would love to change the ending to live long and prosper.

i have scripts for everything in life. i have even learned to make people laugh. pointing out similarities and parallels makes them laugh. example.

at food store:
ok you total is 35.99,
holy crap thats more then my dog's food, damn lazy dogs should have to buy my food if i am going to buy there's. damn lazy dogs don't even have a job. ah their food is probally better for me any how.
(typically the person is cracking up at this point. no real idea why)

There are suicides all the time, and it's directly related to ignorant and hateful - yes, hateful attitudes like yours regarding homosexuality.

so i am directly responsible for thousands of gay people who have killed themselves? hmmm, i have no feeling one way or the other about that.
you will not turn my opinion by calling me hateful, when i have stated both me and God love EVERYONE! sorry try again.

I agree: truly hateful homophobic attitude.  
Alison

Absolutely agree. I was nice in my earlier post, but I am getting pretty tired of hearing about therapy for something that isn't a disease and illness or anything related to one. This is why people that are Christians hesitate to say so, because people will assume we are bigots and full of hate as well. I'm used to it, but saddened by it. I have been fortunate that my church is open to everyone and freely preaches tolerance. It is not always the case. This is 2010. People need to wake up and get over themselves.

Nice to know nobody agrees with this "therapy" bollocks.

everyone has different convictions. also Christians still sin, we all sin.






.... also on a note, your not born gay, it has been debunked as a myth.
the born gay movement is a new movement pushed by G&L activists, and not science.



.... call me a hater if you want, i have been called far worse by far better people. i have thick skin at this point. i would have more ground to say your haters, because you are intolerant of my religious beliefs. so in essence your all haters.

I cannot abide wilful stupidity, and I cannot abide hypocrites.

I'm intolerant of your intolerance.

I hope you aren't including me as one of your haters.  I'm seeking to reconcile your statements about Christian religion with the Christian Second Commandment.  

This is a script you deliberately choose to use, not a spontaneous utterance.  In my opinion, it seems less offensive to G_d and the person you're speaking to to simply use less profane words.

Also do you not believe that asking for forgiveness from G_d includes a resolve not to commit that sin again?  I realize that sinning is inevitable, but to include words and phrases in a script that violate this commandment seems to imply the lack of commitment needed for forgiveness.

You sound surprised about this?  Everybody dies eventually.  I've never yet met anybody who really is immortal.
Alison

Prove that scientifically, please.
Alison

no thank you.

You're quite welcome.
Alison

You sound surprised about this?  Everybody dies eventually.  I've never yet met anybody who really is immortal.
Alison
[/quote]

everyone will get this answer some day.

The existence of the 'Soul' can not be proven. If it exists, it has no measurable component -- no mass, velocity, volume or wavelength.

Statements of faith are not proof of claim, nor do they require validation. Therefore, challenging faith-based statements is a waste of time.

(Just trust me on that last one.)

actually many things cannot be proven scientifically, such as:
why do things have mass?
how does gravity work?

does not make mass or gravity any less real.

Except they have both been proven.... they are even mathematized.
When something becomes law, in science, it has been mathematized, proven true by experimentation and it has remained this way for many decades.

You could have simply said there is currently no means to measure it yet. There are plenty of things like that in science.

I was taught these things in high school science back in 1973.  I don't know which country you're from, but perhaps they haven't caught up with the Australian high school curriculum circa 1973 yet?  

Or perhaps it's a case of that old saying: a philosopher is somebody who wants to understand the universe but couldn't be bothered to learn physics.

Alison

We can measure gravity and its effects, and predict how matter and energy will behave in a gravitational field.

We can not measure a 'soul' or its effects. Nor can we predict how a 'soul' will make a person behave by its presence or its absence.

:: Gravity exists. Souls ... ?

come on k2 i was just getting in to that when you stopped your posts are usually massive  at least give us a commentary primes up to 1000

I've got a list somewhere.  I'll pull it out.

scooby doo is a prime.

thankyou

i should have phrased that better.
they dont know why they do what they do.
LHC might answer the question of mass. i will be very surprised if it does thou.

So were you claiming that the 'soul' exists, or were you simply assuming that it does and then asking "Why?"? Either way, what measurable properties do you claim for it?

LHC is searching for the Higgs boson (among other things) -- a hypothetical massive scalar elementary particle predicted to exist by the Standard Model in particle physics, and that is also predicted by the same Standard Model to give rise to the physical property that we call 'mass'. Thus, there is reason to expect that the Higgs boson is real.

Ah, I've missed reading these posts

And I've missed writing them.

this is prime numbers in base ten are these prime numbers universal in all bases

it would make things much more interesting if it did not!

and i have this slight feeling that some things in science cannot ever be solved. woops, faith in science?

It would mean only that either the Standard Model would have to be revised, a bigger and better collider is needed, or both.

Faith in the Scientific Method and in measurable quantities.

Yes. Remember, a numerical digit {0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9} is only a graphical representation of an integer quantity. These quantities transpose to all non-complex integer number bases without losing primacy.

When you die, you rot. Game over, no heaven, no hell, just bacteria and worms.

wouldn't is suck to be wrong?

Not at all. Nirvana sounds like a nice place.

I put the same question to you; Ásatrú predates Christianity, how do you know that Thor, Odin et al aren't going to send Valkyries to pick up those who die honourable deaths?
How do you know your heart will not be weighed against a feather by Thoth, and other members of the Egyptian Pantheon? ( The scales are a *** to calibrate).

so in that case there is not much point looking at the last digit for patterns

It's pretty much like Kevout2 said earlier:

i know because i see God at work every day, i know it to be real. God reveals himself to his followers, and hardens the hearts of those who reject him. God could stand before them, and preform miracles, and they would not know it to be him, because he has hardened their hearts.

And where do you work that God would show up and reveal Himself to you?

yes but what i am thinking the numbers ending in five are only relevant down to base 6

the only propose i can think of for finding a pattern would be to predict higher numbers

and to predict higher numbers the pattern would have to work in any base

because he has hardened their hearts              guilty of nothing then

perhaps this will help you understand....

mark 3
20Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."

22And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is possessed by Beelzebub[c]! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons."

23So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: "How can Satan drive out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27In fact, no one can enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house. 28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

if you reject God, you cannot see what is right in front of you.
i see God working every day, i drive for a living, and have had his hand on my own car. not everything in this world can be seen with your eye.

I lol'ed a lot on that one. I wasn't expecting that.

I tried to chuck in some game ones, amongst all the "real" ones.

Afterall, Guthix is the god that created Gielinor...

Oh yeah... Mehrunes Dagon, Akatosh. That's why it sounded so familiar. Those in FF come from mythology so they are both.

(All hail Guthix. He's my favorite god and my home as a chapel after him)

There are more in there, including a Pokémon reference, and a Red Dwarf one.

Guthixians rule - Saradomin is a liar and Zamarock is a fake.

Don't know him yet. I rarely do quests. I was questing recently to catch up until yesterday when the new skill was released.

New skill you say?

Dungeoneering. Useless by itself but plenty of rewards very useful to others skills. It is also the first to reach lvl 120 and not 99 like all the other skills.

Are you claiming that I am insane, demon-possesed, or both? If so, what is your evidence?

Are you claiming that I've "Blasphemed against the Holy Spirit"? If so, what is your evidence?

I have also been a student of the Bible...

"You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye." -- Matthew 7:5

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like whitened sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness." -- Matthew 23:27

"While boasting of their wisdom they became utter fools..." -- Romans 1:22

Are you claiming that I am insane or demon-possessed? Are you claiming that I have "Blasphemed against the Holy Spirit?"

Where is your evidence? People that fail to win an argument often resort to attacking the person who won.

Are you claiming that I've rejected God? Evidence, please?

Evidence, please?

It takes eyes to see. Without eyes, one can not see. As for making a living, I am an electrical engineer with a college degree. And I will let you (and everyone else) in on a little secret...

I am also an elder in a Presbyterian church, a Christian -- and thus a Theist. I have been to Seminary, and have taught Biblical studies in church and in people's homes. I can perform an exegesis from the original Hebrew and Greek texts, and have prepared sermonettes for church services with less than five minutes' notice.

I make the effort on this and other websites to challenge people's beliefs in order to get them to provide something other than random Bible quotes and personal testimonies for their 'proofs' of faith. The people that can dig deeper into Scripture and provide the answers I seek are invited to join me in discussions elsewhere, and often those discussions attract militant Atheists who seek only to make Ad Hominem attacks against believers ... just like some self-proclaimed, self-righteous 'believers' make Ad Hominem attacks against anyone they perceive to be of lesser stature in the Eyes of the Lord. Finally, I have also found that Shakespeare was right when he said, "The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose." (The Merchant of Venice - Act 1, Scene 3.)

Now, you were saying ... ?

don't need to go to California, there are more then enough lost within 10 miles of my house then i could ever talk to in my life time.

i love your mocks, i hope you dont forget them after you die.
oh yeah worm dirt and such.... uh-ha. let me know how that works out for you.

Where?

I am one of those that has a belief in 'soul'.  Jesus was not christain.  The church has led you away from the truth , not towards it.

if your an elder in a Presbyterian church, i'm a candy striper.

Smeg!  I love Red Dwarf, particularly the episode where the robot Kryton believed in "Silicon Heaven" where all the toasters went after they stopped working!

Alison

If you like comedic sci-fi, you might like Dark Star. John Carpenter's first film, which he co-wrote with Dan O'Bannon (who later went on to write Alien, borrowing much from Dark Star). You may recognize part of the soundtrack which Carpenter used later in Halloween.

Such is the way of the polemic argument -- it is not about reaching an understanding, but rather it is about asserting a solipsistic viewpoint and virtually cramming it down other people's throats.

It's one of the things that I hate about religionism.

I saw the US version of Doctor Who, and while it was not utter smeg, it was still cheesy.

Love it too! Lister is such a cutie.

so then your admitting your a chronic liar?

^^ strawman

ha ha ha ha ha ha!
thats gets more funny every time i hear it.
its like the chicken butt to my guess what!

it is still fact

by the way , I am happy that you stick by your faith. if it works for you , that is the important thing.....happiness counts

The Lister character got me interested in curry dishes and the Fiji islands. The actor got me interested in battle-bots.

logic does not have a place in atheism.
and if waste of time am i, why come back have you?
obviously, your a do nothing troll.

Strawman again. I am not atheist.
Also, Show me proof of your allegations.

woops, didn't you say i was a waste of time? uh, like wasting your time?
or are you useless?

Waste mine and I'll waste yours. That's reciprocity.

a. Belief is not evidence, and faith proves nothing.
b. There is no objective proof for the existence of God.
:: No one can prove that God exists.

This is not the same as claiming or proving the non-existence of God, nor is it a claim or proof of atheism. However, in the interest of Science, what follows is the correct form:

a. Belief is not evidence, and faith proves nothing.
b. There is no objective proof for the existence of God ... yet.
:: No one can prove that God exists ... yet.

This takes into account the ideas that either (1) God has not yet revealed Himself; or (2) Science has not yet developed the means to detect Him.

I believe in the existence of God, as He is described in the Bible -- the supernatural creator of the universe and all that it contains. Therefor, I am not an atheist.

Ecclesiastes 9:7 (New International Version)

7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do.

i do, because if i cant take my friend to a gun club, they cant be my friend.
but then i rarely have more then two friends.....

So you admit you are a mere troll?

Agreed, we're going in circles now.