I don't know the issue at stake, but here's what I suspect.  I suspect he's grappling with someting that he'd like to change that neither he or you could change.  He was probably in a "wishful thinking" state-of-mind until you "hit the nail on the head" by saying what you said.  Sometimes the truth hurts even if it is the truth.  As a guy who has been seemingly cursed with love-life problems, it sure as hell hurt when the man who made me aware of my Asperger Syndrome told me that no matter what; when I like a woman, I come across as a creep and I would probably never find a true love (if I had let my then current relationship that was plagued with preexisting incidental problems end rather than accept and deal with her legal/immigration problem).

I think the guy is coping with an issue that he can't change.  He's probably not really mad at you.  More likely he's alternating between shock (the actual revelation) and denial.

Suppose you were seeing a doctor about a certain pain that was intermittently and repeatedly bothering you.  Perhaps you'd were seeing more than one doctor just to get an alternative opinion and/or treatment for the same issue.  Finally one of the doctors diagnoses the ailment.  Then he tells you that you are terminally ill.

Think about how you'd feel.  You'd probably feel very depressed.  You'd feel very angry.  You'd have mood swings; but overall grappling with this hypothetical reality, you'd be miserable.  You probably wouldn't speak to your husband/parents/brother/sister/kid/friends for periods of time because you'd be too depressed and bewildered.  Other times you might lash out at them in anger even though you're angry about your situation; not about them personally.

Well, I think this guy needs to cool off and gradually cope with whatever the issue is.  Meanwhile you may want to educate your friends that is unfair for them to cast aspersions and make judgements about him.  They say Aspies can't feel empathy.  Ironically I think this is a situation that these NT folks can't feel empathy towards the Aspie.  (Life's experiences typical for NTs are very different for life experiences of Aspies).  Bottom line is his true character in his mind and in his heart is probably very different from what they might be gossiping about.

Ah, I used a gender word and not a sex word.  After thirty plus years of aggressive feminism, most males probably do also think that a man controlling a relationship is bad and a woman controlling it is good - or at least better.  Personally, I don't believe anyone should be 'controlling' a relationship or the other person or persons in it.  But the fact that I go into relationships not aiming for control may well be a contributing factor to the levels of control I've experienced from females in relationships.  The fact that they're female, and thirty plus years of aggressive feminism may also be contributing factors...

I have to ask why you want to remain friends with someone who treats his girlfriend and parents so badly, though you do acknowledge that they enable his behaviour.

What happens if you 'ditch' him before he's ready to communicate, and then he tries to communicate anyway?  Do you refuse to communicate?  Is your control now more commendable than his?  To my mind, the only person you have a hope of controlling is you - either accept this man as he is, or not.

Hi Energeia.

Thanks for that.

Regarding advice, last year he asked me for advice all the time on this girl; it wasn't unsolicited, it was most certainly solicited. Every time I met him he would start off with a complaint session about her and ask me what I thought, so as far as I was concerned, our relationship was so close that we were open with each other fully about both of our partners - this is the way it has always been. For him to keep his romance secret this time was a strange change of our relationship and one which bothered me. He probably could not see that to an NT this was a hurtful thing. It is like saying to a friend that you no longer trust them or you are no longer close to them.

Well, about your friend with Asperger's Syndrome; I think he's in a dire situation that can only get worse.  First of all, Aspies are particularly vulnerable to be manipulated.  As far as the manipulating party is concerned; an Aspie is expendable.  It has happened to me a few times in my life; the grandest incident being how and why I married my second ex-wife.  I know of a situation where my grandfather was set up before just so the perpetrators wouldn't get caught in the activity they were going to profit from; the blame would be pinned on him instead.  As far as I understant, he was totally unaware he was being used at the time.  I can think of at least one member on this board who was screwed big time by somebody taking advantage of his "Aspiness".

If this fellow feels impassioned by this girl, he's extremely vulnerable.  And she knows it.  He's looking through rose-colored glasses.  The good moments he "shares" with her are what he idealizes as the "real she".  But her true colors are probably much different.  She is probably messing with his head; making him feel guilty about doubting her sincerity (possibly even trying to convince him you're a jerk); making him doubt himself; and making him feel like if he breaks with her (as hard as it may be if he feels passion towards her), he'll gravely regret it in years to come.  Remember, if he feels passion towards her, she's got him wrapped around her finger and knows all too well the stuff she's tring to do to him in order to personally profit, taking for granted she will get away with her unscrupulousness.

Is this guy young?  I assume he's never been married before.  My gut feeling tells me he should not marry this woman.  If he does, he may end up as a "whipped puppy".  He will most likely end up being villified in a divorce court.  (I'm assuming this woman is NT and devious).  I'm sure she has friends who would support her devious kinds of deeds and back her up all the while knowing how vulnerable he is because he has relatively few social contacts.

Does this guy have a good job?  His own home?  Maybe still in school studying hard to procure a better future for himself (and a potential partner)?  Whatever nice things he has in his life, he's probably worked very hard to acheive on his own merit.  All that can be flushed down the toilet if he gets involved with the wrong woman.  These are things he should seriously think about before he marries her.  He'll have to be strong, and he'll need folks like you to help make him stronger with practical moral support; especially if this girl is messing with his psyche.  If their relattionship has a crack in it now, it will only exacerbate far worse if they get married.

Hi Calista.

I am puzzled about why your mum sends you random articles even though you have told her you don't want them. Does she have a habit of not listening to you or is it because she thinks you ought to read the stuff and won't take no for an answer? That would annoy anyone.

It sounds as if your mum is either not reading up about AS or has read it and not understood it. Your situation with relationships is exactly the same as it is for my friend. He may be happy with that. Are you happy not having friends? If so then there is no need to get them. If people who have no friends are happy that way then I actually envy them.

Capricorn

Oh Pakrat, you understand exactly how I feel. Especially as I am quite a bit older than him and protective of him. Part of the problem is our age difference and the fact that he feels some natural rebellion against any authority figure - basically anyone older than him. He has a real problem respecting his father, but I told him that until he can get a job for himself and not be living off his dad's credit card as he is now, he is just going to have to swallow his huge pride and be nice to his dad.

Anyway, back to the girlfriend, I guess you can never make someone see what they don't want to see, especially when it is about a partner. She must provide something he wants. But then the relationship he has with her is more like an addiction - he is like an addict going back on heroin of his own free will after a stretch of being off drugs and healthy. As for what his family thinks, I only know through his eyes and I think he tells me what he wants to believe rather than what is true. Plus he tends to totally misinterpret others' actions and words anyhow. I could only find that out by asking them myself. His mum is blinkered to his condition - she tells me his problem is just that he would be better off living in another place. I had no clue how to answer that!

Sorry to hear about your online friend. Was that someone you met online? If it makes you feel any better, I can tell you that sort of thing has happened to just about everyone online. People seem to find it very easy to behave thoughtlessly when they can't see the person they are talking to. I think we are also guilty of it in email to people we know. I think now it was stupid of me to try to talk to my friend in inbox rather than face-to-face, though I have tended to write to him about important things rather than tell him because I have found he finds it easier to process and remember the information if it is written down and he can read it over and over. Of course the negative point is that if it is something that makes a person angry they get angry over and over every time they read it. You just can't win.

Anyway, regarding the situation with my friend, he replied to me today. He must be psychic or something and knew I was talking about him. He sent me a short inbox saying that he wanted me to be patient and wait until he was willing to talk to me, although he didn't know when that would be. He said that if I really wanted a good relationship with him then I would wait.

He has such a different way of thinking to me. The messages which I sent which to me were "friendly" were to him "aggressive intervention". My desire to solve the problem before it went on too long and grew out of all proportion he sees as being "self-demanding and arrogant". I am doing my best to try not to be offended because to an NT that is really fight-provoking language. It is almost like waving a fist in the other person's face. It is very frustrating to have words and actions mean totally different things to another person than they do to me. I feel like the two of us are from different planets - he is from Jupiter and I am from Mars.

I think we are going to have serious difficulty trying to patch up this friendship. His choice of words anger me, and my choice of words anger him. In addition, I am trying to get him to look at everything from a 50/50 point of view, but he sees everything as a battle that he either wins or loses and he sees his way of thinking as the right way and the only way. There is no question of meeting people halfway or even trying to understand how they feel. I am not sure how much of that is down to AS and how much is down to his personality or youth.

So, I am just going to step back and leave him be now. I am not sure if it will be possible to continue our friendship or if I will want to. We may end up just being so different that a relationship of any kind will be impossible.

Capricorn

She is absolutely fascinated with alternative medicine and Messianic Judaism, and she constantly sends me articles about these things. I have told her I want to hear from her and not just read forwarded articles many, many times; and she simply cannot seem to understand that I am not as fascinated with these topics as her. If something is "interesting" to her, then she feels it must therefore be "interesting", period--for everyone. I haven't been vague about it; I've told her straight out that I don't like her sending me things she didn't even write; and yet she still does it.

I think I simply don't have time for friends. My time just gets taken up by survival, school, and special interests and beyond that there's nothing left. I am mildly lonely, but I don't really think about it often because whenever I spend time with people, it's always a contest as to whether I get bored or exhausted first. I'm not, like I said, any good at making friends; nor at keeping them; and these things take so much effort that I would have to drop a good many things. I suppose if I moved into an assisted living facility and dropped out of school, I might have as many friends as I wanted.

Pakrat,

Your friend's girlfriend sounds awful. My friends girlfriend is more the type to deliberately try to make him jealous in order to get more attention. I think that is the way her mind works. They are a terrible combination in that she is very needy and attention-seeking, and needs twice as much attention as a normal girl. My friend, of course, because of his AS, is much more focused on himself than she would like, so it's the worst combination. The first time around she tried to get more attention by running around with other men. She is apparently going to stop doing that now - that was one of his conditions of dating her again - but I can't see that she is going to be any less needy and demanding this time around, so I wonder what method she will use to get attention this time. ("pregnancy" was the word that just popped into my mind there, unfortunately).

Talking about manipulation, etc, makes me think of not only his girlfriend, but some of his so-called friends. The irony of his situation (and perhaps for many with AS) is that the people he ends up liking best are the ones who actually do not like him very much. What happens is that some people will meet him and really like him. These people will be very friendly towards him and he will interpret this as "aggressive invasion" of his life. He ends up disliking these people and the relationship ends. (This is probably what is happening to my relationship with him now). On the other hand, people who don't really like him treat him quite coldly and keep a distance and this situation suits him so well that he likes them a lot more than friendly people. Because of this he has a group of "friends" who he really respects, but when I meet them or talk to them it is obvious they have a negative or even bullying view of him. They have laughed about him when I have mentioned his name, called him "crazy" or other bad things and often tell me stories about tricks they have played on him because he is so trusting of people. They do not know that he has AS, but that is no excuse for them treating him that way and it always makes me angry and upset. It makes me even more upset now that because of our disagreement he is "closer" to these people than he is to me.

Hi Pakrat.

I think my friend must have lost dozens of friends over the years. He'll talk about people from the past in a fond way, but when I ask him about where they are now, he'll just shake his head and look sad. Sometimes he gives me an account of the break-up of their friendship which doesn't make sense and  am assuming that he hasn't really understood what happened. Several people have very abruptly cut him off by deleting him from their facebook accounts, blocking him in email, etc. This is the way we deal with people now - we just delete them. He blocked me on his Skype account last night. He hadn't been on Skype since the day we had the problem and so I guess he logged on for the first time last night and blocked me so that I couldn't talk to him. He wants to keep a distance until he is willing to talk to me again. I will respect his wishes, but it is very hard as  have never experienced this kind of behaviour in my entire life - all my other friends have been the type to want immediate resolution to a problem. It is hard not to see his withdrawal as hostility or punishment. I am trying to think positive about it, but it isn't easy, especially as some of our mutual friends are very angry about him withdrawing and the way he has treated me in general and have made it clear that not only do they expect me to end my relationship with him, but if I continue the relationship they will lose respect for me. I don't need pressure from them on top of the fight with my friend.

Capricorn

I personally would like to smack your "friend". He's an adult right? This behavior is childish. He is acting like a spoiled little prince. I had a friend who had a new gf who was jealous of our closeness. He was cruel and distant because of her. This confused and hurt me. I went through a long period of sorrow and I eventually I washed my hands of him. He apologized, but the damage is done. I no longer view him as human. He can die for all I care. I hope he experiances EXACTLY what he put you through. Only then will the little Prince grow up.

Hello Saft.

Thanks for that advice. All things considered, I now think the reason he got so angry was that he knew what I said was true, but he didn't want to admit it. He still doesn't want to admit it and that is why he is hiding from me. Sometimes the truth hurts.

I no longer feel bad about upsetting him with what I said in the mail, because the way he has behaved since he received it has actually reinforced what I said. I said to him that I was upset that he didn't treat people older than him like his parents and myself with any respect. The way he has behaved has proved that ten-fold.

I am waiting. The friendship is on hold indefinitely and I am reevaluating the whole relationship.

Sometimes we learn the hard way.

Capricorn

Hello Duckfetishgirl.

I feel the same way. He is 23/24 and I feel like I am trying to communicate with a small child. I want to avoid attributing things he does to his Aspergers without considering other reasons. I have no idea how old you guys on here are, perhaps you are all a lot older than him and tha is why he acts immaturely in comparison. Or maybe his behaviour has nothing to do with his AS and is because of an immature personality. It could just be because all his life, with his absent parents who are in denial of his condition his behaviours have never been checked. I am starting to suspect that I am the only person who has ever stood up to him in any way at all. That may be another reason why his reaction was so strong.

I have a relative who has a very arrogant, frightening personality and everyone else, family and the few friends she has, have always been too afraid of her to stand their ground when she has a tantrum. I am the only person who lets her know I don't think it is acceptable and she hates me for it. She gets so furious when I stand up to her - she just can't believe that someone else is "daring to contradict" her (she actually uses that phrase). I see the same thing happening here to a lesser degree. Spoiled child syndrome.

I am sorry to hear about your friend. I think sexual attraction makes some people lose all sense of reason. Your friend learned the hard way by losing you.

Capricorn

Hi Pakrat.

I am sorry to hear you are hurting over your internet friend. I think on the net we tend to imagine people that we talk t are much nicer than what they really are. They are like blank canvas that we paint our dreams onto. Unfortunately the reality is always a let-down. I think just about all my friends have had an online disappointment at least once with a guy or girl. These relationships can somehow be much more intense than real relationships in the outside world, partly because they are conducted in our homes, usually in the private space of our own rooms, so that makes them impossible to get away from. It's not like meeting a guy in a cafe where you need never go again if you want to forget him. When you get up in the morning, there is your computer at the end of the bed and so there is the reminder of your dead relationship as soon as you open your eyes.

It's very true what you say about the female friend/ girlfriend conflict of interests. This isn't the first time this has happened to me and in fact it happens between guys too. I know a few of my male friends have lost their male friends because a new girlfriend has been so possessive she doesn't even want him to go out with his drinking buddies anymore. More fool them if the accept that kind of behaviour.

Capricorn

I apologize for going of on you. I got a rush of old feelings by reading this thread and took it out on you. I'm sorry.

Hi Pakrat

I'm so sorry to hear that you had that experience. The part where the guy asked you to send him an iPod and he would pay you back sounds warning bells in my head. I don't like to say it, but probably a nice person would not ask something like that and you were probably lucky in the long-run that he went away. You seem like a very nice and thoughtful person and some people will take advantage of that (obviously here I am telling you something you already know, but it may help you feel better to have someone else say it). This sort of thing always hurts and you are just human to be feeling low. It's natural.

Well, it is a new year and a good opportunity for a new start and new way of thinking.

Capricorn

Hey, Duckfetishgirl, that's okay No offense taken. Actually, your mail kind of reminds me of the angry mail he sent me, so hopefully my friend will also calm down with me too (though it may well take a lot longer

Capricorn

Hello Capricorn,
I am also an NT female
My Boyfriend (AS) and I have been together for a year - so trust me I understand the frustration that you're feeling. During the beginning of the relationship, we barely argued and we didn't have too many misunderstandings because we were still learning about each other. His dad told me that he had Aspie's while I was waiting for him to come home from work (and his dad is an Aspie too), so I looked it up. What I summed up from it was he would be a bit of an odd ball, which I love about him ^_^. So when my boyfriend had told me himself, I accepted him for the way he is because he can't be anyone but himself. Towards the middle of our relationship, we had a misunderstanding and when I was trying to talk to him about what was upsetting me - He got really REALLY upset and wouldn't talk to me :] (Sound familiar?) Well he wouldn't talk to me until he was ready and I was in the same position you were in. I asked him (after he calmed down), why he wouldn't answer my calls or he wouldn't respond to my texts - He copes differently than we do.

He needs time to be left alone so that he can calm down, it builds up as depression and anger - it's hard for an Aspie to take in such high emotion like us NT's can. I'm a BPD, so our relationship can get pretty insane because my emotions are at a level of 11 and his are at 2. So try being patient. As time progresses, you and your friend should try to set up some boundries and some ways to understand each other. For example, we set up a system. If I'm getting angry, I'll tell him to drop it and he leaves it alone. If I make him upset, he tells me that he needs to go on a walk and I'll just leave it alone. When we're calm we will try to talk about it calmly and we get over our troubles. :] I hope I helped a little.

Hello TMH,

Thanks for that. yes, I can identify with your situation. This is not the first time by far that we have had a misunderstanding, but it is the first time he has ever shown anger to me. I was shocked by the level of his anger and I am guessing that he may well be upset about losing his temper so much too. Something which compounds the situation is that I am so much older than him (about the same age as his own mother) so I also feel upset that he has talked to me and treated me in what is to me a really disrespectful way. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but I think that even when very angry with a much older person he shouldn't say things that are really insulting. It is hard to know if he was deliberately trying to be rude to me or if he didn't realise that phrasing his mail the way he did would make me even more upset. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt until I see him. If I see him.

I agree with you that we need to set some boundaries and more than that, clearly define our relationship. I think a major part of the problem is that our expectations of our respective roles in this friendship have never been clearly outlined - it is only now that I see that my understanding of our roles are obviously totally different to his. That is why he was outraged when I said certain things to him and why I was initially upset by his behaviour.

BTW, how long does it usually take for your man to calm down? I have no idea how long it might be before my friend feels calm enough to be willing to talk to me again. I don't know if we are talking days, months or years and that in itself is daunting.

Capricorn

Before then, his brother had befriended me on Facebook. They were both asking at various times about whether I could write them a sponsor letter to come to Australia. I wasn't too sure about it and they eventually dropped the matter.

But the younger brother asks for gifts nearly every time he speaks to me (the younger fellow is the one who befriended me on Facebook and from seeing him on Skype, I wouldn't be surprised if he has autism> His friends on FB all have AS themselves or have AS kids).

I sent him some souvenir stuff and some things I made because he said it was his birthday at the beginning of November and his brother's at the end of October.

I haven't got anything sent to me back (not that I really expected any although he said he would send various things). At least he was honest about wanting gifts, whereas I don't really know what to make of his older brother (the one who hasn't spoken to me for a while).

It's hard to know what is really going on so I've got to give up trying to make any sense of it because I don't need any added pressures what with work being uncertain right now.

Well, it sounds like you were a good friend to them and if they didn't do anything in return for you, maybe it's best they disappeared. The sponsorship letter also sounds rather dodgy to me. It was probably a very good idea not to get involved with that, considering all the legal implications. I'm presuming you could have been held responsible if they had run into any difficulties in Australia.


Capricorn

In that case, I think you certainly did the right thing not getting involved with the sponsorship. Just being legally responsible for two strangers would have been worrying enough, without having them living in your house and having to feed them. Maybe I am just overly suspicious, but they could have turned out to be axe-murders! I think you had a lucky escape there, Pakrat

On a lighter note, I love spicy food, but it wasn't the case when I was a kid. My mother was the world's blandest cook - she thought onions were exotic - so I had to work my way up through the hotness levels after I left home. Now I can eat just about anything. My favourite is Thai food - Indian food is a bit too filling for me. I prefer the light Thai salads and seafood dishes.

I am white, but I was born and raised in the East Midlands in the UK and even 40 years ago most of my friends at school were of Indian descent. I remember going to my first predominantly white school at the age of 11 and it freaked me out. Many of the other white kids were so needlessly violent!

My mothers cooking... oh no... the last time I went home I couldn't eat what she had made. The veg consisted of the biggest, oldest, outer leaf of a cabbage, rolled up into a ball and stuffed into a saucepan. She hadn't even cut it up. My mum is another story...

TheMadHatter Wrote:

Hello Capricorn,
I am also an NT female
My Boyfriend (AS) and I have been together for a year - so trust me I understand the frustration that you're feeling. During the beginning of the relationship, we barely argued and we didn't have too many misunderstandings because we were still learning about each other. His dad told me that he had Aspie's while I was waiting for him to come home from work (and his dad is an Aspie too), so I looked it up. What I summed up from it was he would be a bit of an odd ball, which I love about him ^_^. So when my boyfriend had told me himself, I accepted him for the way he is because he can't be anyone but himself. Towards the middle of our relationship, we had a misunderstanding and when I was trying to talk to him about what was upsetting me - He got really REALLY upset and wouldn't talk to me :] (Sound familiar?) Well he wouldn't talk to me until he was ready and I was in the same position you were in. I asked him (after he calmed down), why he wouldn't answer my calls or he wouldn't respond to my texts - He copes differently than we do.

He needs time to be left alone so that he can calm down, it builds up as depression and anger - it's hard for an Aspie to take in such high emotion like us NT's can. I'm a BPD, so our relationship can get pretty insane because my emotions are at a level of 11 and his are at 2. So try being patient. As time progresses, you and your friend should try to set up some boundries and some ways to understand each other. For example, we set up a system. If I'm getting angry, I'll tell him to drop it and he leaves it alone. If I make him upset, he tells me that he needs to go on a walk and I'll just leave it alone. When we're calm we will try to talk about it calmly and we get over our troubles. :] I hope I helped a little.

Hello TMH,

Thanks for that. yes, I can identify with your situation. This is not the first time by far that we have had a misunderstanding, but it is the first time he has ever shown anger to me. I was shocked by the level of his anger and I am guessing that he may well be upset about losing his temper so much too. Something which compounds the situation is that I am so much older than him (about the same age as his own mother) so I also feel upset that he has talked to me and treated me in what is to me a really disrespectful way. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but I think that even when very angry with a much older person he shouldn't say things that are really insulting. It is hard to know if he was deliberately trying to be rude to me or if he didn't realise that phrasing his mail the way he did would make me even more upset. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt until I see him. If I see him.

I agree with you that we need to set some boundaries and more than that, clearly define our relationship. I think a major part of the problem is that our expectations of our respective roles in this friendship have never been clearly outlined - it is only now that I see that my understanding of our roles are obviously totally different to his. That is why he was outraged when I said certain things to him and why I was initially upset by his behaviour.

BTW, how long does it usually take for your man to calm down? I have no idea how long it might be before my friend feels calm enough to be willing to talk to me again. I don't know if we are talking days, months or years and that in itself is daunting.

Capricorn

It all depends really, when he got to the point of screaming once. Like he was so mad, the vein in his neck almost popped out (Only happened once) - it took him about a week, maybe two to completely calm down. That was the turning point on which we decided to figure out what signals we need to know how much the others blood is boiling. Cause I've actually given him the cold shoulder before, it takes time for my boyfriend to completely cool off. If i try to interrupt his cope process, it's like agitating an already pissed off rattle snake.

Uh oh!  Cabbage not only smells sort of like farts.  It will make you fart.  Corned beef and cabbage (with potatoes) makes an excellent meal and is customary for celebrating St. Patricks Day.  I get a bit nervous when somebody mentions "corned beef and cabbage" because I'm afraid somebody might spot a subtle smirk on my face.  If I eat corned beef and cabbage, I'm sure to fart alot later on.

That sounds exactly what he is doing, perhaps he is uncomfortable with the email, and how it came across. I know, I have a habit of shutting down and not knowing what to say when confronted with something uncomfortable.
I only wish there were a way to convince him that his girlfriend means him no good.

A call girl is generally better looking as well.

Thanks, Pakrat.

I was feeling very guilty, because of the intensity of his angry reaction. In a person without AS, that kind of reaction would be appropriate in a situation like, for example, going round to someone's house and strangling their cat in front of the kids. He was SO angry with me. I must have read and reread the mail I sent him that made him so angry about fifty times, trying to assess for myself if it was a really nasty thing I said to him.

I have read a lot of the threads on this forum about meltdowns and now think that was what happened with him. Those threads say that people are unaware of the stress building up inside and then events trigger an explosion of anger. That sounds like what happened with my friend. he has told me many times that he cannot understand his own feelings and I had to outline to him what stress was and how the physical and mental symptoms felt. That was just a couple of months back, so I am guessing that most other emotions are equally inexplicable to him.

Do you think that him being able to verbalise to me that he was furious was actually a big step? He was able to tell me that he was angry and tried to explain how he felt. Though to me it didn't really make much sense and was contradictory in many places, I am thinking now that he did at least make the effort, he didn't just explode and ignore me completely.

This is all so confusing in so many ways. The best thing is just to keep back for a while. He has started posting on his facebook again, but only a status update. It said "The sins from my past inspire me." When people asked him what he meant he didn't reply, but I think he may mean treating his g/f badly before (as that is the way he now thinks). He seems very focused on "doing the right thing" towards her, not to make her feel better, but because he is worried about the way other people view his actions. He doesn't want their mutual friends to think badly of him because of the way he has treated her and he doesn't want to think badly of himself as he has this high moral standard and wants to be seen to be doing the right thing. I remember when he split up with another girl years back, he wasn't worried about her being upset at all, he was just worried that he would lose popularity with her friends by dumping her.

Sorry, got into a bit of a ramble there.

Capricorn

Hi Duckfetishgirl,

Yes, I also think he is a bit spoiled, but more than that I think he has been emotionally neglected. Just taking the example of me having to explain to him what stress was, the most significant point about that was, why had no one else ever done that before? I mean, I have known him for years, but I am in no way the closest person to him. His family have lived in the same house as him for almost 25 years, and so I am presuming now that his parents must have been unaware for all that time that he didn't know what stress was, because if they had known that, his mother or father would have explained it to him, right? And then if you take that and multiply it by all the other emotions he is unable to identify, well I feel bad for him that no one has stepped in there sooner to try and help him out with this. Because, at the end of the day, I am not actually one of his parents. All this is not really any of my responsibility. It is just really sad to think that his own family don't understand the depth of his confusion about things, or perhaps they do understand, but haven't been able to help him out in any way.

This is especially sad, because its obvious just from the few things I have been able to help him with that when people explain things to him logically, he understands everything pretty much immediately and retains that information and uses it. So if people had started doing this YEARS ago, just think how much better his life would have been and would be now.

Capricorn

Oh heavens, I have tried to talk to him about this kind of thing, but it didn't work. When he told me that pretty much all he really got out of relationships with women was sex, then I tried to approach the subject of having an honest open relationship with a girl just for the physical side. I said to him, well if all you really need is sex, then why don't you try to find a girl you like who is just interested in the physical side too? That might be a whole lot easier in the long-run. You wouldn't have to deal with a girlfriend ringing you up all the time (which annoys the heck out of him) and you wouldn't have to deal with the complexities of a relationship if you didn't need it. I tried to get him to think about the idea of having a "friend with benefits", a sex-friend, but he wasn't even willing to consider it, because he has such high moral standards. His face went purple, so I probably just escaped him having a meltdown on me at that point. He feels the need to make everything "honorable" by promising marriage if he is in a relationship with a girl, but that is what leads to all the problems, because he promises so much in order to try to be honorable, but he just can't maintain the level of commitment he has promised.

Capricorn

I feel for you, Pakrat, because I am in the same situation and it is always horrible when someone you care about disappears. This has happened to me before online and I have been very upset about it in the past. So now I make it a rule never to get emotionally attached to people I only know online (so now it is the people in my real life that are disappearing, like my friend. So actually you can't win either way).

Looking at his past mails I think now that he was trying to explain to me the depth of his building frustration but I just didn't appreciate how stressed he was getting. When he said he didn't like to get close to people, I thought I understood the level of his discomfort, but now I am guessing that I didn't. He was maybe really trying his best to tell me that I was getting too close and he couldn't handle it and then he finally had this big meltdown.

Oh, being "ladylike". That reminds me of my grandparents.

Capricorn

Capricorn,

I'm an NT and I had a best friend with AS and we would get into many disagreements about things.  At times I wouldn't understand exactly why he was angry at me or even what for.  Most of the time our fights would be pointless because we would both be saying the same thing but in a different way.  There was one time where I told him there was something inapropriate that he had said and he got so mad at me.  He yelled at me and stormed away.  I was surprised because I was shocked and curious as to why it made him so mad.  I tried calling him and when he answered he would yelled and most of the time he wouldn't answer.  My friends said to give up, but the guy was really my best friend so then I gave up for a bit and tried talking to him online.  Well I thought that would help but clearly it did not.  I just gave him his space and then one day I decided to call and him to see how he was doing and its almost as if nothing happened.  I think if you just give him the space to think about exactly what happened then he'll cool down.  I feel as though during the time I wasn't talking to him I reflected on exactly what I had maybe said or done or maybe how I worded what I was saying.  Right now we don't speak because we broke up awhile ago...and its too hard to talk to him.  Well its hard for me...he doesn't even contact or anything now which hurts but I know he would want me to pick up and move on.

Just give it sometime I'm sure everything will work out in the end!

Hi Bender,

Thanks for the message and the positive words. he has basically said that if I wait long enough he will come back. What I am thinking about now though is how a future relationship could work. Would I always have to worry about him taking offense at a comment and then have to go through all this again, with him getting furious and ignoring me? Another problem is that over the last week I have seen quite a few mutual friends and they have all very strongly urged me to on no account get back into any kind of friendship with him. It is really ironic because their reaction to our friendship and the prospect of us renewing it is almost exactly the same as my reaction to his relationship with his g/f and my reaction to the news they were back together. It is all very confusing.

It made me worry about the future of me being friends with him again as well.  If I knew a fight could start between us I would avoid it at all costs.  Usually I hate losing arguments but this taught me it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong as long as you agree to disagree.  The mutual friends can state their opinion its whether or not you feel comfortable.  I don't feel as though you should abandon him as a friend afterall you both are best friends!  Message me sometime and we can talk a little!

I understand. If I was diagnosed early with AS I would be better equipped to cope with situations. I grew up never having a clue and thinking it was my fault I was strange.

Yes, he could have been trying to push you away. I guess if it is possible, concentrate on other friends and interests and let him make the first move at any reconciliation. You didn't do anything wrong - it's just that he can't accept anything he might see as criticism (and this is very common in aspies - I'm much the same only I am more likely to get very indignant and want to tell the other person how cross I am - unless it's somebody I don't care about and then I will drop contact).

I didn't mean to get attached to my penpal. Some people warned me he could be up to no good - I should have listened. He's probably done this kind of thing lots of times before and wasn't a true friend. I feel I've done all I can to patch things up and now it's time to wash my hands of him.

I find that to be a bit offense...I'm sure he can have other friends instead of just his girlfriend.  He may have a closer connection to his girlfriend but I'm sure he has other friends as well.  And a marriage doesn't depend on kisses and hugs its also about the personality and how well you fit with the other person.  Being in a relationship is hard because you have your good and bad moments its very similar to a friendship (minus the romantic part of course).  Not matter what it is...you have to work at it!

I think my post was grossly misunderstood.  (Another personal "Aspie moment" for me?).  Well, I feel bad if you took offense to whatever I posted because that was not my intent.

What I was trying to say is that this young man probably considers his girlfriend to be Number 1 over everybody else in his circle.  I doubt he has a wide sphere of friends.  From what I gather, he can't even lean on his parents for moral support.  To put it another way, he's probably going to yield to whatever his girlfriend says (assuming he considers her Number 1 in his life) before he yields to whatever others (other friends with good, honest intentions say).  He's (likely) grappliing with an inner conflict over her versus all his other friends.

I do think with this girl, he's trying to be somebody he's not.  He is probably like that in just about all other situations as well.  (I'm under the impression that he's in denial about having Asperger Syndrome and has been raised to beleive hes Aspie traits are unacceptable; thus living in denial).  In the context of relationships and marriage, sooner or later, he will let his guard down.  If he is indeed putting up a facade to maintain this girl's affections, etc., the relationship just won't work out.

I hope I made my point clear and I apologize if anything may have been misunderstood in a negative way.

Hi Pakrat

I have had to concentrate on other things, because the stress was just driving me nuts. The criticism thing - well that is really hard to deal with, because I am not going to lie to him about what I am thinking. On the one hand he has these high moral standards about telling the truth, but on the other hand, if I tell him the truth about how I feel and he doesn't like it, he goes into a rage. So what am I supposed to do? It's like I have to tell the truth, but that truth has to always be something that he wants to hear.

As for your friend, perhaps they were right that he was up to no good, because the things he asked you to do, like be a guarantor to him and send him an ipod, they sound quite dodgy to me. I think your feeling that he isn't a true friend are probably spot on and it is a good decision to wash your hands of him. You can get a much better friend than that - one who doesn't try to take advantage of you and who treats you well.

But, I just had a total epiphany regarding my friend and why he has run away from this problem we have had. It is really simple and blindingly obvious - in the past, whenever he had a disagreement with anyone it was usually ME who sorted it out for him, so now that it is me that he is in conflict with, there is NO ONE to sort it out! It is that simple. I was his peace- maker and problem solver, because he has never been able to sort his problems out for himself. For example, when he had trouble with his college professor last year, he sent the prof's angry email to me, I explained to him why the prof was angry and I wrote a reply for him to sort the problem out. I did the same in countless different situations. His suggestions on how to solve problems were "sleep" or "don't think about it". I don't know why I have been expecting him to be able to resolve this issue - it should have been obvious from the start that he would not have the first clue about how to sort the situation out. No wonder he has disappeared. If he wants to be friends again at all, he is probably counting on keeping away until I have "forgotten" about it and is hoping that he can just start the relationship up again as if nothing has happened.

Capricorn

This response to a long two-way conversation (Capricorn and Pakrat) sure has alot of relevence to what transpired in my life.

Capricorn's friend has a hard time coping with the fact that he's "different".  He's in denial about alot of things; probably including the education/career path he chose and its implications for him.  He's also in denial about the "true colors" of the girl he's with.  The optimistic side of him is telling him that if he marries her, things will be "peaches and cream" because she really does love him.

Well, when I was 25 going on 26, I was just plain fed up with the regular dating scene.  I was 1) simply not meeting anybody, 2) in those rare incidents I did meet somebody I liked, I was not her type, or 3) I didn't like her and then was made to feel guilty for not persuing her further.  At the time, I spent alot of time at the gym trying to be in top shape and "look sexy".  It may have been good for my physical health but that was about it.  (I hate the public gym environment and to be honest; I've got better things to do with my time.)  In those days, "working out" was like a second job for me.

For quite some time, I thought it would be nice if I somehow met a nice Filipina.  I always thought (most) Filipina girls were pretty.  On a positive note, I'd heard that Filipina wives were generally loyal to their husband, had good, conservative "family" values", and were very family oriented.  On an opposing negative note, I heard anecdotal stories of Filipinas being avaricious gold-diggers who ruined the men (non-Filipino men) they married.

(These were the days before mass internet use.)  Well, through and advertisement in a dating magazine (now out of print for 10 years), I sent away to a particular pen-pal introduction firm for meeting Asian women (mostly Filipinas).  I got the firm's brochures, and "the rest was history".  This was a business owned by an American husband and Filipina wife.  I was really impressed by what I saw and read; and I practically "melted" at the idea that someday I could be blissfully married afterall.  I thought the green-card sharks and golddiggers were the exceptions and just perpetuated a negative stereotype for all Filipinas.  This time in my live was transitional in the way I looked at the world.  Suddenly I felt more optimistic and upbeat.  At last I'd found a pathway to find a life partner to make my life complete.  Both of my younger brothers were also getting married that year (each is still married).  No longer did I feel bad (in addition to the insatiable desire to have a love in my life) that my younger brothers were getting married and I couldn't even find a girlfriend.

This was the dawn of a "new Kevin".  A more positive-thinking, upbeat, optimistic and happy Kevin.  At last I thought I'd found a pathway that would lead to a niche in a special woman's heart.  I started wrinting letters and taking pictures to send to new female pen-pals in the Philippines.  This exchange was quite an experience in and of itself.  I was amazed at how many of these girls would say "God Bless You" or make references to God and Jesus governing their behaviors in life in the letters.  Quite the contrary to the greediness, spoiledness, and lack of moral accountability in contemporary American woman; so I thought.  (It bothered me that women of my generation had multiple sex partners and often cheated on their primary partners.)  I've been raised to beleive that God and Jesus are most important in governing my life and marriage (if married.) (Nowadays my faith is something that is "on the skids" due to my life's experiences; my father keeps nudging me that I must get into a spiritual program.)  Well, I thought that the partner for me; and endorable by God up above; was not in America, but somewhere in the Philippines.

I "learned" alot about Filipino culture throgh exchanging letters, photos and other momentos.  I say " 'learned' " versus "learned" because I thought I learned about Filipino culture this way (and through my five week stay in the Philippines) but I really didn't.  I was naive.  How I am regarded in Filipino social settings in America is diametrically different from my perceptions of the culture that led to me marrying my first wife.

I was proud of what I was doing.  Proud in the sense of feeling good about it.  I tried to share this joy with family, coworkers and friends.  Then the black clouds would arise.  But they were very much real.  I was warned time and time again that "all of these women" just wanted to get to the United States, dump me afterwards, and take all the money they possibly could from me.  I also got warnings that I'd be used as a stage for them to send alot of money to their families (by fleecing me) and to bring the whole family to the United States.  My close friend's wife maintained that I was making a VERY BIG mistake by getting involved with a Filipina.  Her family said the same thing.  It used to hurt me greatly with her discouraging words.  I thought (was hoping) it was only personal prejudice on her part.

My relationship with my friend's wife has been strained at times because of my personal ideals and preferences.  She and her husband stood by me through my first divorce.  After it was over and I met another Filipina (regular introduction channel) she was mad at me.  I felt stunned and hurt.  I was reaching for joy by wanting to meet a new woman and I thought I'd just share my smidgeon of my pretty rare optimism.  When that relationship ultimately failed, it reinforced the notion that I was the fool.  From that point onward I was very coy about my persuits.  She didn't even know I was involved with whom became my second wife until much, much later.

My friend's wife was accepting and friendly to my second wife.  I know she had to repress alot of her personal emotions.  Then eventually she learned about the mega-*** I was living through.  Well, because of what has transpired, I feel like the hopeless, idiotic fool afterall (persuing my ideals).  After all these years, my friend's wife was right.  I didn't like what she had to say.  But she was right.  Certain women have a sense of intuition (a mystery to me) and she is one of them.

Pakrat, DO NOT send this guy money or anything like that.  Most of all, DO NOT SPONSOR HIM TO AUSTRALIA.  I have the high gut feeling this man is a "love-relationship predator".  If Australia's immigration sponsorship laws are anything like that of the United States and Canada, you will be burnt extremely badly if you were to petition this guy and he's up to no good.

There are so many immigration-love horror stories that happen in the United States.  It is said that 30% to 70% of immigration cases that involve marriage are fraudulent marriages.  There are currently some grass roots movements to protect the rights of sponsoring American citizens in the event of a wayward, rogue sponsoree.  All too often the American sponsor gets burned big time.  I don't just mean in terms of heartbreak or even relatively simple financial loss.  I'm talking about serving a prison sentence for a crime not committed, a ruined personal reputation, and a ruined business or career.

There is a domestic violence clause in U.S. immigration laws to protect the sponsorees who ARE abused by the sponsor.  (It has been established that in a number of cases, sponsoring citizen spouses have been abusive and heve used the threat of deportation as one form of abuse.)  If the alien spouse can demonstrate the she (or he in rare cases) has been abused at the hands of the American spouse, she doesn't have to stay with him in order to get her green card.  Such evidence could consist of police reports, medical records, and social worker reports.

Well since the passage of this law, there has been a proliferation of false abuse claims; some extreme.  By extreme, I'm talking about they guy who thinks he's happily married and comes home from work one day to find the police at his house.  He gets arrested because his wife alleges he beat her up that morning.  (And she may even show "evidence" such as bruises by 1)throwing herself down the stairs or 2) incidental blood clot marks if she's taking birth control pills; a more painless method.

From my perspective, I could describe this guy as a "male Filipina".  I suppose what I quoted can go into the categories of the likes of "male lesbians" (referring to heterosexual males who aren't macho in the conventional sense.)  I think the term "oxymoron" describes these ironic word combinations.  In your case, the guy you became attached to is behaving like a typical modern Filipina; asking for money, gifts, etc.  Nowadays western men who seek love with a Filipina are always weary of the golddiggers, and voice frustrations of getting attached to somebody and then being asked to send money for a "family emergency".  The truth is that in the Philippines, the internet cafes are full of young women (and sometimes men disguising themselves as women) fishing on-line for suckers abroad.  They and their families live very well when the hook the hearts of one or more men abroad.

I'd say the easiest way to a man's heart is through his pecker.  This is how a man is the most vulnerable.  Filipinas and other women predisposed to swindle a man know that and thats how they get ahead.  I would say the equivalent principle applies to women.  The bottom line is that being without partner, and longing for a lover (partner you're attracted to and can share mutual joy with) makes one vulnerable to the sweet-heart predators.  Some will say very flattering things to you (and make you feel its coming from their hearts) just to obtain something you have that they want (money, posessions) or get a favor out of you (i.e. send a younger brother to college in their native country; or just collect the money and make you think its being used for a worthy purpose).

About being fat, I myself am overweight.  I'm trying to lose some but it will always be a perpetual struggle unless a ground-breaking fat burning pill becomes available on the market.

Remember one thing:  beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.  In looking for love the challenge is not only to find somebody who you're beautiful to and is beautiful to you; it also needs to be somebody who means what they express as opposed to flattery.  Yes some men are very picky about weight.  So be it.  It's a fact of life just as much (for me) women are generally turned off by Aspie traits.  What bothers me is when they have cruel attitudes about women who are overweight.

I'm sure there is a good man for you somewhere.  It's just a challenge to find him.  I see fat women with men in public places who seem like happy, loving couples.

Weight can also be a problem for women (meaning they hate fate men.)  With my first wife (who was a somewhat on the heavy side when we started corresponding), she lost alot of weight after she came to the United States.  At the same time, I gained some weight.  She threatened to leave me if I didn't lose weight and she wasn't kidding.  She was very image concious and, in the end, thought she was God's gift to men because of her exotic Filipina looks.  I'd have been much happier if she was faithful to me, her heart was with me, and even if she had gained considerable weight over the years as well.  She'd still be beautiful in my eyes.

Sometimes I think a couples' individual metabolisms differ and that can and does cause marital problems.  One partner might like to cook and eat a certain kind of food.  That partner might have a fast metabolism.  The other partner gets fat having a steady diet of that food.  Then there seems to be problems.  A fat related marital problem could be an actual problem or a symptom of other more important marital problems.

As of now, I'm seeking somebody in my weight league as one of my criterion.  I'm of the beleif that women generally dislike fat men as well as men generally dislike fat women.  I think (just my opinion) that it's easier for a fat woman to find love than it is for a fat man to find love.  To me personally, there are some fat women I can find attractive and this is the group I'd likely persue.  I have a partial membership on a plus-size dating site.  So far I can only look at personals but can't respond.  I have to get a full; paid membership in order to do that.  I wonder if it's even worth it.  With so many of these women; I do not even seem to remotely "fit the bill".  Yet somehow I've got to reach out to meet somebody; a personal persuit of happiness.

Hi Pakrat

For me the canceling of my birthday plan seemed very mean, but that is perhaps looking at it as an NT. Perhaps to him it was just a logical thing to do - he was mad at me so he didnt feel like celebrating my birthday. I had been looking forward to it a lot because that plan ould have been the first time he had ever taken me out anywhere. In all the years I have known him it has always been me that has taken him out. I have always arranged every day trip, meal, trip to the museum, etc and I have always paid for everything as well. This was supposed to be his first time to take me somewhere as a treat. That was what made it especially upsetting when he canceled it. He was very matter-of-fact about it when he canceled and I don't think he did it to be spiteful. At least I hope not. I was wondering whether the reason he started posting so many birthday messages to other people was because he suddenly realised how upset I was when he cancelled my birthday and so he was somehow trying to make up for it by wishing other people happy birthday instead. (When I say make up for it, I mean to himself not to me. He is the kind of person that would feel he had to prove to himself that he did care about people's birthdays - he usually regrets accidentally doing nasty things to people not because he has hurt them, but because he feels he has been morally wrong and has dirtied his own character).

I am sorry to hear about your continued sadness about your friend. His sister sounds nice, but I think you should still be careful about them. I do understand how you feel about not being able to trust your friend because of how he has dropped you and he could do it again. That is exactly how I feel about my friend and so now I think that it is kind of too late for him to get back in touch even if he did because the damage has already been done.

Regarding your friend, at least you have some kind of indirect contact with him through his sister. If she is a nice person, why not just keep in touch with her for the time being and see how it goes? There is no reason to break off contact with her and keeping in contact with her keeps a channel open for him if and when he decides to contact you again Then it'll be your decision whether or not you want to go back to being friends. That is my plan for if my friend gets back in touch. I plan to tell him that first we should meet to see if we still like each other enough to try to save the friendship. I am not sure now that  do - I think his behaviour since the disagreement has made me feel so negatively about him that I am not sure I could ever be able to forget it. It is ironic that his treatment of me since the disagreement has now far overshadowed the actual disagreement itself.

Capricorn

Pakrat,

I guess in your situation, you're not in a position to travel alone.  But that's besides the point.

How well do you know his sister?  If you don't mind me asking, what country is he from?  If the family is communal in nature, they potentially have alot at stake with him being involved with you.  In the Philippines, for example, this sort of thing happens when the whole family expects to benefit from one member being involved with a westerner.  You ought to ask yourself, "Does the rest of the family expect to gain something?" by you being involved with this guy?  I can reasonably speculate that the family (not just him) might be thinking about home improvements, gifts, luxuries, having childrens' education funded, and monetary allowance remittances shall he get hitched to you.