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New to the board - Questions - SunnyDaze - 06-20-2005 11:31 AM
Hi this is my first post. I have lots of questions, but I'll just ask a few for now.
Is there any way to tell if a child with moderate autism will develop into an adult with HFA/AS?
What should I do to help my child reach her potential - whatever it may be?
My child was diagnosed with mental retardation in addition to her autism but there is NO WAY I believe she is retarded. (And that's not just because I am her mom.)
She is almost 6 years old. She has a really great memory and is good with mechanical things. She doesn't have any savant skills. She loves music. Has about 500 single words but uses only a fraction of them. She is really mean to my poor old dog (who just takes it without so much as a whimper).
Thanks for your time!
- Uschi - 06-20-2005 03:05 PM
I agree with Amy. And don't try to discourage stims, because autistic people need them to function. Just sometimes it's appropriate to try to exchange a distracting stim for something less obvious in public.
I also think that speech therapy might be a good idea. Once she expands on her vocabulary and uses it regularly, she will do better on IQ tests. Play with her, read to her a lot, try to have a conversation with her. Build things with her (Lego, Brio train, building sets are great things for autistic people to play with). Teach her to use the computer. She might just love it. The computer is also a great teaching tool for teaching all kinds of things, including language. It's easier to communicate with the computer than with people for most autistics.
Obviously an IQ test is completely meaningless when used on a child who doesn't use a lot of speech, and who can't read and write yet. I believe you when you say that your daughter is not retarded, a mother knows. Those 'experts' don't know your child the way you do.
As Amy says, it's not possible to know if your daughter will end up HFA/AS or not. But many autistics will develop to be high functioning, never give up hope, you are the best judge of how smart she is.
- Sibylle - 06-20-2005 06:57 PM
I agree with Amy and Uschi.
Stims should be allowed if they are not offensive in any way.
There is a german Author who was diagnosed either AS or autistic when he was a child. He got language therapy, as much as I can remember and he went to a regular school, although he always had problems with language. At the age of about 35 (I'm not too sure about the exact age) he decided for himself to change to "the other world" and he wrote a price winning book.
I saw him about two years ago on an authors-reading (?don't know the correct term) and for me he seemed to be completely NT. He put an obsession on acting normal, he learned it like an actor, only for himself, I think. (and that's the way I learned to make my face and body show/act like NT - once I decided that I would like it better, having facial expressions like people on tv, I sat down in front of a mirror and trained)
I am not sure about his relatives, if there were autistic people, but I never heard of.
So there is always hope. Try to find a thing your daughter loves and might love to communicate about, so she might find communication desirable.
Sibylle
New to the board - Questions - SunnyDaze - 06-21-2005 01:20 AM
No one in my family has ever been "officially" diagnosed with AS. No one I can think of that is "eccentric" (I hope that is not offensive!! Please forgive) or a late talker. My side of the family has genius level IQ's and precocious development but my husband's side is average. I am kinda geeky and hate small talk (boring waste of time) unless it is something I am interested in but I can "play" social butterfly very well. I have no problem reading faces or social cues. I've worked with the public for many years & was a top sales person and I am an excellent con-woman (bad trait I am only semi-proud of), so I don't think I qualify as AS; except for being super smart!
As time passes you will get a clearer picture of her abilities, we had a news story in the news and media section about a girl, a few days ago, she was diagnosed with mental retardation and achieved a huge amount.
They did use a standard IQ test (she was 2) and it was ridiculous. They said her IQ was 70. I was in "denial" for 2 years. They told me the only way she could get services was if she had an MR diagnosis - but then it's supposed to be accurate!!?!?! These people really scared the crap out of me and told me if I didn't get therapy for her that I was being neglectful.
She has such a strong will and she knows what she wants. She has her own way of communicating. She just pinched me because her french fries aren't done cooking yet. Little stinker. She's never been a kid who didn't like contact. She loves to kiss & hug and craves my attention. If she wants her brother to go outside with her she will get his shoes and sweetly, coyly smile at him and hand them to him. How can he resist? She certainly has charm.
She does have ABA - she doesn't mind it, but I hate it. I am always arguing with the therapists. They pretty much have to do things my way. I threw them out of my house once so they walk on eggshells with me.
- Amy - 06-21-2005 01:31 AM
What do they do in the ABA sessions?
Why do you hate it?
Why is she having it?
- SunnyDaze - 06-21-2005 01:36 AM
Her ABA people & I fight about this all the time. I think they should let her stim too! I even made her ABA therapist stim with her the other day. The therapist couldn't "do it" either. (My daughter was 'lassoing" beads with a turn of her wrist & the therapist couldn't do it!!)
She's already loves the computer and other mechanical/electronic things.
Thanks you for this (above). I think she is awesome no matter what. :grin:
- SunnyDaze - 06-21-2005 01:43 AM
Why do you hate it?
Why is she having it?
At first it was "come sit" and I about freaked every day. My daughter hated it. It was AWFUL. Now she looks forward to her therapist coming because the therapist lets her play with gooey slime, buys her candy, sings her goofy songs and plays tag with her.
The therapist really does love her. I tell the therapist when I think she's overworked a drill and it is getting tiring I make her (therpist) quit. I make them go outside and swing on the swings or something. They know I want it to be fun for my daughter and I don't want them to take away her childhood with drills.
- Amy - 06-21-2005 01:58 AM
Drill?? The fact that you have to tell them when to stop, and intervene, and they do not recognise when she is getting tired, is worrying to me.
Have you heard of all the controversy and concern over ABA?
Remember that you are in control, and you don't have to use them. There is no proper regulating body for therapists across the country, unlike for speech therapy.
Often parents are not there when the therapy is done, and cannot intervene when a child is tired, and if you had not had the strength to keep arguing with them, I doubt if they would have taken a better approach. They work to get results and the whole basis of ABA is highly suspect. It was originally designed as a type of brainwashing to make homosexual men straight.
- SunnyDaze - 06-21-2005 02:33 AM
Have you heard of all the controversy and concern over ABA?
The only info I have is pro-ABA.
Can you give me any links about ABA not being beneficial?
I would be very interested in reading about this.
Shocked :shock:
and confused :?
- Amy - 06-21-2005 02:58 PM
http://users.1st.net/cibra/
http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_aba.html
There are many other personal stories posted on various sites.
- M - 06-21-2005 04:06 PM
Thank you for posting these articles. From the Misbehaviour of Behaviourists.
So this is what ABA is:
"In 1991, researchers from Rutgers, including the well-known behaviourists Sandra Harris and Jan Handleman, published a study about the consequences of aversives in autism programs. The study was called "Does punishment hurt? The impact of aversives on the clinician." They compared the morale and job satisfaction of more than 100 staff, divided into those who could use only mild aversives, and those who could use severe aversives on their autistic clients. Severe aversives included (and one assumes were not limited to) "slap, pinch, electric shock, noxious odor, noxious liquid, and hair pull."
Children are slapped, pinched, shocked, exposed to noxious odours or liquids or their hair pulled when they fail to "learn" an "appropriate" behaviour or stop an "inappropriate" one.
"Restraints were removed from the scope of this study when no one involved could decide whether their use on autistics constituted a "mild" or "severe" aversive. Clearly, they did not ask an autistic. Nor did anyone notice that autistics had been injured and killed in restraints, which might argue for a classification of "severe". "
Restraints are used to stop natural behaviour of running away from the abuser. So can't these people see the Stockholm syndrome happening? Children often love their abuser parents too.
"These ethical and human rights aspects of autism-ABA haven't been addressed, and autistics have been excluded from all committees, panels, boards, etc., charged with developing, directing, and assessing ABA research and treatment programs. Behaviourists are free to act unimpeded on their assumption that autistic behaviours--for example, the way we move and play--because they fail to be like non-autistic behaviours, are useless and worthless. ASAT's information library approvingly reports elaborate behaviour interventions designed to remove autistic behaviours. For instance, the whole ABA repertoire is deployed to prevent an autistic from flapping his hands while he is alone. This article admits that autistic behaviours stubbornly persist even when the autistic is unsupervised. When I told Dr Sallows that I flapped my hands I immediately had to reassure him that I did not do this in public. Then I pointed out that different kinds of people, so long as they're not autistic, are allowed to behave according to their differences in public. But you're not allowed to run down the street with a gun, Dr Sallows said. You are when you're the police, I said, and added that blind people, for example, can wave white canes around or take dogs into restaurants. Dr Sallows replied, but they're blind. "
That says it all doesn't it? Autistics can learn to mimic behaviours considered acceptable in public. But they will still do them when they are alone. So all that suffering for something they could do themselves if they wanted to. Most kids do realize at some point that tantrums, and hand flapping might not be rewarding behaviours. I don't think that has to be achieved by slapping them or worse. A complete waste of money for ABA.
- Amy - 06-21-2005 04:10 PM
You can read some of the threads on this site about the Judge Rotenberg Center to see the use of aversives at its worst.
- SunnyDaze - 06-22-2005 12:23 AM
Holy [bleep]!
No adversives have ever been used in my daughter's therapy. Good God, I would have to kill someone. I get mad when they say "no" too harshly.
Amy, I haven't tried those links yet - but I will tonight when my kids go to sleep.
Thanks! :smile:
- SunnyDaze - 06-22-2005 04:25 AM
No adversives have ever been used in my daughter's therapy. Good God, I would have to kill someone. I get mad when they say "no" too harshly.
Amy, I haven't tried those links yet - but I will tonight when my kids go to sleep.
Oh my gosh - you guys - I read the stuff in the links Amy gave me and I can assure you that my daughter has never been treated like that.
I would never ever ever never ever allow that! A person would have to be insane to let someone do that stuff to their kid. The agency that provides my daughters ABA wants her to be motivated to do her work, not force her to do it. They go to extreme lengths to make it fun for her and make her want to do her drills. Sometimes the therapist will tell her to take a break and she will say "NO!! Come sit?" And the therapist has to turn the chair upside down so she will take a break.
It's not always like that though, sometimes no matter how motivating the reinforcers are - my daughter might be having an off day or just feel like chillin' out and I end the session.
Anyone who restains a child or abuses them should be executed.
I'm serious about that! :mad:
Re: New to the board - Questions - SunnyDaze - 06-22-2005 02:43 PM
Ok - here is my next question:
My daughter is very afraid to go to unfamiliar places. The other day I had to pick up my son's glasses at the optician's and I took her inside with me. It was only 2 minutes. She was petrified and screamed and cried. Everyone was looking at me like I was beating her or something (I wasn't, of course).
I don't want to make her stay at home all the time.
So what can I do to get her more comfortable going to different places?
Re: New to the board - Questions - Bonnie Ventura - 06-22-2005 02:56 PM
I'd suggest taking her, for just a few minutes at a time, to new places that you think she may enjoy, when you're not in a rush to do errands. Maybe a quiet playground when there are no other children around, or a walk in the woods, something like that. You mentioned that she likes mechanical things; maybe you could take her to a shop that sells interesting gadgets, at a time when it's not crowded.
- Amy - 06-22-2005 03:00 PM
If you try one new place a week, for example, and make it a positive experience.
What I do, is avoid places that are busy, or confusing, such as a busy supermarket. I go when its as quiet as possible, and I always go to the same one so that I, and my son, can be very familiar with it.
For somewhere like opticians I get appointments when its very quiet, like last appointment on a weekday.
You could try and talk to her about where you will be going, and describe it.
I think its very hard for any kid to go around a lot of places at once, so I try and limit places in one outing, such as 2-3 shops, once a week.
- Sibylle - 06-22-2005 05:03 PM
Try to talk to her in advance. Tell her why you have to go there. Reassure her that she will be safe there. Tell her, that you will leave if she gets too frightened (but only, if it is possible, she must rely on your words). Maybe you can talk about a special sign she can give when she feels it is too much for her (that will take a lot of time! until it works), so you can leave, without her becoming too upset. Maybe you can tell her that you feel uncertain as well, when being in a new place and that that feeling is ok. Even if she does not respond with words (as you said she doesn't speak a lot), she might get what you want to tell her.
If it is only a short stay for you, maybe she could stay in the car (if you go there by car - that's what my 7yr old son sometimes like better) if you find a parking space where she can see the shop. But you have to talk to her about that before actually doing it (maybe several times, so she really knows what's going on).
And try to explain the world to her. If she's interestet in machines, explain how a vaccuumcleaner works, explain kitchen machines and then, even if she is not very interested in it, try to explain why people do things "by the way". For example, if someone is walking the street on a red light, tell it is not ok, but that ppl sometimes do things wrong. Guess what the reasons for such behavior might be, so your daughter will learn, guessing is part of life (as it is for my son and me - we only can guess why ppl act like they do, we can't read body language very well and in the example one anyway would only be able to guess).
If she does not feel comfortable being hugged, just tell her, you love her. That's what I missed as a child - I felt unloved because I never understood (and wanted) body language, hugging and stuff. But I longed for my parents to tell me they loved me, which they didn't (at least not with words) because they used body language.
Don't do any of all the proposes if you think your daughter would become upset with it.
Sibylle
Re: New to the board - Questions - SunnyDaze - 06-22-2005 05:06 PM
You guys are great for helping me!
Here is a situation that I really need your help with -
My husband loves to go to family picnics, reunions, religious services, etc
As I already mentioned by daughter does not like to do these things. I have no problem taking all the time that is necessary to expose her to different situations (a few minutes at a time) until she is comfortable.
But my husband expects her to stay at loud family gatherings, boring church services, etc. It is hard on me because I have to constantly reassure her everything is ok or chase her or whatever. It is horrible for her because she is uncomfortable in new situations.
I fight with my husband constantly about this. He says that if I do not force her to do these things she never will. He tells me that I "give in" to her tantrums by removing her from the situation. I can tell the difference between a tantrum and a panic attack. She is not having a tantrum - I am certain. I think it is cruel to make her stay in a situation that is quite possibly agonizing for her.
How do you think I can get him to see my point of view? He is not a huge reader and hates the computer. Are there any good videos about autism and social situations?
- SunnyDaze - 06-22-2005 05:09 PM
Sibylle - unfortunately, she would not understand that much explanation. She is not at that stage yet in her language. Her receptive language is about what a "typical" 2 year old would be.
- Sibylle - 06-22-2005 05:29 PM
Well, even if she does not understand it yet, keep talkin (in easy words) about what you are doing and especially about her interests. She might get an interest in conversation when she gets the idea what she might need it for.
Sorry, I don't know any videos about autism.
But I've seen a documentary about a young german adolescent woman, who did quite well at school and then got a job (it's learning on a job, don't know the right vocabulary). After a short while she stopped communicating - completely! She was not diagnosed by then and her mother had a hell of a time to get through to her daughter. On tv the young woman saw something about aspergers and looked it up in internet and had herself diagnosed then. After that it went better, she found out, what she needed to prevent herself from overload.
What I want to say with that story is, that overloading might make it worse. I have much more problems now, that I'm single mother, than when being married (even having problems with my husband) and having help with the kids and getting the time off that I needed.
So just be careful with her. Why should one be social if not wanting/needing it at that age? Does your husband go to every social event you'd like him to go with you? Maybe that would be an argument? Maybe you would like to go to concerts/theatre and he doesn't or something like that? Would he force you to go to see soccer? Would he expect his best friend to go to watch Wimbledon if the friend was not interested? People like different things and if something is too boring or scary (like rollercoaster or ghost train) they can decide on their own. He would not force her to see scary films, wouldn't he? So why having her going to scary social events? Maybe you can find some arguments there.
Sibylle
- Sibylle - 06-22-2005 05:32 PM
And for the family picnics, maybe you can find a place a bit away from the big trouble? And ask the family not to come too near or only one at a time.
Sibylle
- Amy - 06-22-2005 05:43 PM
SunnyDaze, can you explain to your husband that if your daughter is forced into situations in which she feels stressed, that it will actually discourage her from doing such things. Forcing a child into a situation that it can't handle is bad for any kid.
He needs to be more realistic and take her needs into account.
You are right to stand up to him about it.
- SunnyDaze - 06-22-2005 07:04 PM
Oh, believe me I have been through this with him numerous times. I just refuse to go or take my own car. But it still creates a huge problem in our marriage. But don't worry, I won't give up. I like what Sibylle said about the "forcing her to see scary movies" analogy. I will use that next time. I hadn't thought of that one.
I never ask him to go to social events. Socializing bores me to tears. Yes, he always forces me to go to his silly, goofy events. I just deal with it. Sometimes I will take a magazine or book with me so my brain doesn't explode from the lack of intellectual stimulation or tedious small talk.
- Amy - 06-22-2005 07:36 PM
SunnyDaze, I hope you take this as a compliment, when I saw this -
I never ask him to go to social events. Socializing bores me to tears. Yes, he always forces me to go to his silly, goofy events. I just deal with it. Sometimes I will take a magazine or book with me so my brain doesn't explode from the lack of intellectual stimulation or tedious small talk.
It reminds me of aspies :grin:
- Uschi - 06-22-2005 08:16 PM
Sunnydaze, Amy is right. You sound very much like an Aspie yourself. Maybe that is why you are so tuned into what your daughter feels. And that is a very good thing.
You situation has similarities to mine. My youngest daughter has AS traits, obvious dyscalculia (I need to remember to make the call to get her tested, my memory for doing unpleasant things is like a sieve) and ADD (again, not diagnosed, but very obvious). If I wouldn't be there to stand between her and my husband all the time, he would drive her insane (possibly literally).
He also used to force me to go to social events with him, but much of the time I refuse now. I won't go to company parties any more, or baseball games, or many other things. I just tell him I'm not going, because it takes me at least a week to recover afterwards, and I don't enjoy myself while I am there. So, he goes with one of our children, or a friend. I don't go to church every Sunday, either. Some Sundays I just can't handle even the idea of being surrounded by so many people, and of having to be friendly and chatting afterwards. It takes all my strength.
To your daughter: Maybe you can try to find picture books about specific situations, like going to the store, going to the dentist, doctor, whatever. I know there are quite a few out there, I've seen them. Reading those books to her, and explaining that now you'll be going to the place it describes might help.
If she has any comfort items, like a favourite blankey or doll, whatever it may be, let her take it with her.
Does she like music? Maybe you could give her a tape player or CD player with earphones to listen to her favourite music while in a strange place. I don't know if that would help, but I think it would have helped me as a child (and I wished it wouldn't be considered extremely rude and impolite for an adult to do that, otherwise I would, to tune people out :twisted: ).
- SunnyDaze - 06-22-2005 10:55 PM
I never ask him to go to social events. Socializing bores me to tears. Yes, he always forces me to go to his silly, goofy events. I just deal with it. Sometimes I will take a magazine or book with me so my brain doesn't explode from the lack of intellectual stimulation or tedious small talk.
It reminds me of aspies :grin:
Well, thanks (I think) :lol:
I think I am too dishonest to be an aspie, though. I'm quite a great deceiver and liar :twisted: (remember I'm only semi-proud of that). And I don't mind a social event that I am interested in - like a Comedy Club or getting hammered at home with friends (I love Rum & Coke)!! :lol: :wink:
I just can't stand being around people who have nothing better to talk about than who got voted off the Survivor Island or who's sleeping with who on Sex and the City (sorry I shouldn't put down the shows - I've never seen them!)
- Uschi - 06-23-2005 02:16 AM
You know, not all aspies appear to be honest (even though I am). I have a brother who is without doubt an aspie, and he used to lie and steal money from my mother and sometimes from his siblings.
And sure, sometimes I like to go to social events, like a concert or going out with friends, or playing table tennis with my table tennis club. The difference is, that I am INTERESTED in what I am seeing or doing, and I couldn't care less about doing small talk with my husband's collegues or who will win or lose in a stupid pointless game like football or baseball.
I myself don't drink, because I hate the taste of alcohol, and it makes me sick. But many aspies enjoy drinking sometimes.
So, your points don't prove you're not an aspie. Of course, neither do ours prove that you are. Here are some links to some aspie tests, that would show if it is possible if you're an aspie or not:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/news/page/0,12983,937443,00.html
Anyway, these were all developed by Simon Baron-Cohen, the leading Asperger researcher in the UK. Try these and see how you score! It will give you a good indication if you might be aspie or not (and you may well not be).
- Bonnie Ventura - 06-23-2005 02:49 AM
You can also find an Aspie Quiz developed by Aspies on Leif's Page.
- SunnyDaze - 06-23-2005 05:33 AM
You guys - I LOVED these quizzes!!
I still have no idea what I am though :lol:
Here are my results:
Wired AQ test - scored 14
Guardian EQ test - scored 53
Guardian SQ test - scored 46
Leif's Aspie quiz - NOW=124 / EARLIER=134
- Uschi - 06-23-2005 05:46 AM
Okay, I admit it, you are NOT an Aspie. But your scores on the aspie quiz indicate that maybe you have some Aspie traits (or ADD).
Your AQ is way too low, and your EQ too high for Aspies.
These were my results:
AQ 44
EQ 7
SQ 59
Aspie quiz: now 176, earlier 182
I am sure you can see the difference. Mind you, even for an Aspie my scores are very high (or low, as in the EQ test). Your score on the SQ test is rather high for a woman, so you're quite analytic.
- SunnyDaze - 06-23-2005 05:53 AM
Ok, well now I'm a bit disappointed. 
But I'm sure you fine people will allow me to stick around anyway, since I have a lovely little girl on the spectrum - who today fed my dog (the one she is so mean to) an entire box of Ritz crackers.
- Uschi - 06-23-2005 06:41 AM
Of course you can stick around! We have some other NT parents here, and one NT wife (Garnet is Ozymandias' wife, he is an Aspie, she is not, and they have one Aspie daughter). I just hope that we were able to be of some help with your little girl.
Sounds like she starts to be nice to the dog (even though I am sure you didn't appreciate him eating all those crackers) :roll: .
- SunnyDaze - 06-23-2005 02:37 PM
Good! I'd like to stay, as I have many more questions! :lol:
Yes, she is being nicer to the dog for some reason - just in the last day or so.
My next question is VERY embarassing!! :oops:
Why is my daughter interested in private parts?
She definitely has no idea what their for (besides using them for the bathroom). She has never been abused in any way.
She just has a curiosity for other peoples privates.
How can I get her to stop feeling people up? :oops: :oops: :oops:
Her ABA people want me to say a firm "No!" but I think that's silly. I wouldn't yell "no" at her if she touched a non-private part of someones body, like an arm. I don't want her to think privates are bad - just private. Just like it's ok to pick your nose - but just not other people's noses and not in public, you know? :grin:
(edit) I should add - she still picks her nose in public!! :o
Re: New to the board - Questions - paula_330 - 06-23-2005 03:03 PM
Ok - here is my next question:
My daughter is very afraid to go to unfamiliar places. The other day I had to pick up my son's glasses at the optician's and I took her inside with me. It was only 2 minutes. She was petrified and screamed and cried. Everyone was looking at me like I was beating her or something (I wasn't, of course).
I don't want to make her stay at home all the time.
So what can I do to get her more comfortable going to different places?
Hi Sunny Daze,
Would it be possible to take some photos of the places you have to visit with you child. I found these really help my Son. But other than what everyone else has said I can't really think of anything else that might help.
I have an appreciation of what you are saying about discusions between yourself and your husband on him wanting your child to join in busy activities, in the past I have had many of these with my husband, we often end up doing different activities at the weekend and in the school holidays because my Son is unable to join in. I think it is really important for you to stress your child is behaving in this manner because she is frightend and confused and not because she does not want to be there.
To get my son use to the supermaket I take him there every morning at 7.30am when not many other people are around, we always go to the same one to start of with I would just drive into the car park on the way to the park, then one day I showed him the photo of the shop and I also showed him a photo of inside the shop and I told him we would go in and buy him a Thomas the Tank engine magazine (the magazines are the nearest things to the door) and to my surprise it went really well, he held my hand and we managed to get in and out within minutes. I wondered could it be the lighting in the shops that she does not like, but if you say it is anywhere new it is probably just that.
Also like you I feel somewhere between NT and aspie. my scores are
AQ34
EQ11
SQ37
Leifs now 121 earlier 163.
I don't know what my IQ score is but I don't think it would be very high at all, in fact I would imagine it to be low.
Re: New to the board - Questions - SunnyDaze - 06-23-2005 03:15 PM
Paula, I think this is a great idea. I could make picture books of all the places she has to go. Once she is familiar with a place she is fine - so I could get her familiar with pictures. Doctors office, grocery store, etc. Great idea.
Thanks!
And a question about the way this board works - am I cluttering it up? Should I be posting each question as a new topic?
Re: New to the board - Questions - paula_330 - 06-23-2005 03:31 PM
Paula, I think this is a great idea. I could make picture books of all the places she has to go. Once she is familiar with a place she is fine - so I could get her familiar with pictures. Doctors office, grocery store, etc. Great idea.
Thanks!
And a question about the way this board works - am I cluttering it up? Should I be posting each question as a new topic?
Thats exactly what we do at home. I have a visual timetable so my Son can see everything that we are doing that day, and what time it cuts down on his anxiety a lot. I hope it helps.
As for posting a different question as different topics I don't now.
- Bonnie Ventura - 06-23-2005 08:02 PM
She definitely has no idea what their for (besides using them for the bathroom). She has never been abused in any way.
She just has a curiosity for other peoples privates.
She is probably wondering why girls and boys are not the same. You can buy children's picture books that describe the parts of the body in simple terms; maybe that would help?
Re: New to the board - Questions - Sibylle - 06-23-2005 11:07 PM
Well, I'm no moderator in here, but I've seen a lot of threads where the subject changes from the one that's said in the topic and nobody seems to care.
Sibylle
- SunnyDaze - 06-24-2005 05:20 AM
She definitely has no idea what their for (besides using them for the bathroom). She has never been abused in any way.
She just has a curiosity for other peoples privates.
She is probably wondering why girls and boys are not the same. You can buy children's picture books that describe the parts of the body in simple terms; maybe that would help?
She seen her brother's privates before - she never grabs him. Never grabs at males - only females - boobs & crotches (can I say that here!?) :oops:
She doesn't do it all the time - just maybe once a day or so. Should I ignore it? Should I say "no!" ? I have been saying "no, that's mommy's" or "No, that's private" - but that just makes her laugh. I have one friend that is especially well-endowed up top and whenever she comes over she always keeps her arms folded across her chest for the entire visit!! :oops: :oops: :oops:
- SunnyDaze - 06-24-2005 06:19 AM
I just went back & re-read all the posts & when I read this I shocked myself! I just want to clarify - I'm not a liar or crook or anything. It's just that when I was a salesperson I really shmoozeled people alot. It was my job - part of the reason I left that job was because had to sell stuff I didn't believe in. Phew, got that off my chest!! :grin:
- Uschi - 06-24-2005 06:43 AM
Somehow I never took it to mean that you're a liar or a crook. You don't sound like one.
You might have to talk with your friend (and other females who come to see you) before she comes over next about your daughter's touching. Ask your friend to say to your daughter, 'no, please don't touch me there, I don't like it!" You might have to do what you do to very young children who do things you don't want them to over and over, and slap her hand (not enough to really hurt, but enough for her not to like it), as you say 'no!' in a fairly stern voice (but again, not loud or fierce enough to frighten her). It might be the only way to get the message across to her that what she does is inappropriate.
I just read an account of one autistic ladies life yesterday (Kanner autism, she is nearly 60 now). She was saying that she didn't understand the meaning of words until she was six. When she learned phonics, and started reading, finally she realized that all those sounds had a specific meaning, and she figured out language.
Maybe your daughter hasn't really assigned meaning to many words yet, and truly doesn't understand what they mean. You might need to try to teach her to read for her to get it, too.
- Kev - 06-24-2005 03:58 PM
Hi Sunny
Your daughter and mine sound very very similar. She's also got a Boob fascination. I think Freud would have something to say about it but I just put it down to natural curiosity.
I just found out about all these tests! I got:
AQ: 38
EQ: 17
SQ: 29
Lief Now: 129
Lief Earlier: 123
No idea what that signifies though!
- Bonnie Ventura - 06-24-2005 04:02 PM
Sounds as if you may have quite a few aspie traits yourself, Kev. :smile:
- Amy - 06-24-2005 04:06 PM
Kev, your AQ and EQ results are consistent with aspie/auties results.
- Kev - 06-24-2005 04:48 PM
Really? Well, I wouldn't be massively shocked :wink: ASD is genetic after all and Megan must've got it from either Naomi or me and since I have two close family members who were both on the spectrum it seems a very likely probability that I'm going to have some traits at the very least.
Its something I've been turning over in my own mind for awhile and I've talked to my good friend the AutismDiva about it as well. I don't feel I've any burning need for a diagnosis as I've got through nearly 36 years without one but on the other hand it may put certain questions to rest - or maybe pose other ones! I'd be the first to admit that I've had issues in my life that could be explainable by a diagnosis but at this stage of the game I'm not sure what practical good a diagnosis would do me.
I'll not go on about it here as I don't want to hijack SunnyDaze's excellent and helpful thread but if anyone has any advice for me then I'd be glad (and thankful!) to discuss it via email or PM :smile:
- SunnyDaze - 06-24-2005 05:12 PM
Kev! You are not hijacking!! :grin:
I think you need to change the tag in your signature line though!! :wink:
- Kev - 06-24-2005 05:18 PM
LOL...I'm not so sure :wink: I think if anything the only tag that truly fits me is 'crotchety old man' :lol:
- SunnyDaze - 06-24-2005 08:51 PM
All my friends are really good about my daughter & her boob fetish. Sometimes I think their reactions can reinforce her behavior. For example - my busty friend always shrieks then laughs when my daughter gives her a squeeze. I'm sure my daughter likes the attention.
I would have never ending guilt if I ever slapped her - even lightly. I couldn't even consider that - but I can do a firm "no". I think she'd just laugh, though.
I know she understands language, she just doesn't understand certain abstract concepts like dreaming or the question "why" , etc. She understands "no" but she is a rebellious little thing. I am wondering if her crotch/boob grabbing is an attention thing? Trying to get a rise out of someone? I will have to pay more attention to when she does it - but now that I think of it, I think she does it when I'm paying attention to someone/something other than her. Oh! She's devious just like her mother!! :shock:
- Uschi - 06-24-2005 11:22 PM
You know Sunny, you're not doing your daughter a favour by thinking this way. She is smart enough to know that you're afraid to really discipline her, so there is no deterrent for her behaviour at all. And if your friends will shriek and laugh, same thing. It will make her think that it's actually a funny thing to do, when it is not!
My second oldest daughter used to run into the street, sometimes right in front of a car, and I just managed to grab her in time a couple of times. She did that especially when she was 22 months old, and I was nine months pregnant with my son. She knew that I couldn't run as fast as her at that time.
She wouldn't listen at all, so I ended up giving her a good smack on the bum whenever she did that, and she stopped. I wasn't going to have her run over and killed rather than giving her a spank! Eventually she understood the reason why you can't just jump onto the road and realized it is a dangerous thing to do. But until she did, she needed to be afraid of getting spanked as a deterrent.
With some kids reasoning works. My second youngest daughter was very cautious and tried to keep everybody off the road, telling them it was dangerous, when she was barely two. But some kids will absolutely not listen to reason at all, and if you won't be firm with them (and give them the occasional spank), they'll end up being out of control (actually, I should say, they ARE in control, because they'll be running the show) and driving you up the wall.
Now, I am not talking BEATING a kid, that is definitely abuse. But with some kids you really have to establish who is boss, and let them know that certain behaviours will absolutely not be tolerated. And if they won't listen to reason, then a gentle slap is appropriate in certain situations.
Anyway, this is my opinion, after raising five kids (who are very different from each other). I've said my peace, what you do with my advice is your business. And fortunately, I don't have to put up with that aspect of your daughter's behaviour.
I hope you'll figure out a solution to this dilemma.
- Bonnie Ventura - 06-25-2005 12:04 AM
You know Sunny, you're not doing your daughter a favour by thinking this way. She is smart enough to know that you're afraid to really discipline her, so there is no deterrent for her behaviour at all. And if your friends will shriek and laugh, same thing. It will make her think that it's actually a funny thing to do, when it is not!
I agree. Children should not be allowed to laugh and disobey when they are told "no." There needs to be some sort of consequence, not necessarily a slap, but maybe taking away a video game or some other privilege. Pinching and grabbing people and other annoying behavior may seem cute and funny when she is 6, but you don't want her to be acting like that when she is 16 because she hasn't learned any better, do you?
- SunnyDaze - 06-25-2005 02:05 AM
Ok girls. I see your point. But I think I have been reading her wrong, though. She has figured out she gets a reaction from touching someone there as opposed to a hand or shoulder, etc. I am going to have to think this through. As I mentioned before it was her ABA therapist that wanted me to yell "no" at her. At first I thought this was inappropriate because I wouldn't yell at her for touching a non-private part, so I've never even given a firm "no". She doesn't severely misbehave and she may have thought this was a game. I will start giving a firm "no" & let you know what happens.
Thanks for all your incredible insight!!!
Another fascination. - tenaciouscj - 06-26-2005 11:39 AM
I was recently diagnosed as having Aspergers and when I was 6, I got a fascination with feeling thighs. It was so embarrassing for mum. She told me "you shouldn't take liberties" with people. I didn't know what that meant but fortunately, I seemed to grow out of that particular obssession.
Can't for the life of me understand now why this happened but at the time, mum nearly died of a tubal pregnancy and dad didn't really know how to look after us. I played up at school by not wanting to join in activities that I thought were silly. Once it was clear that mum was on the mend, I got more co-operative at school but there were still problems because I was so bored with the work.
The teacher promised my parents she would give me harder work to do but this didn't eventuate much. The following year, I started reading newspapers and the year after, Readers Digests.
Sunny, I agree with the advice about warning your friends that your daughter might try and grab them. Saying "no" firmly and restraining her from doing it shouldn't harm her.
This treatment with adversives? I wonder if the "noxious smell" referred to meant that the therapist would fart if the child did something they weren't supposed to.
Re: Another fascination. - SunnyDaze - 07-29-2005 01:00 PM
.............This treatment with adversives? I wonder if the "noxious smell" referred to meant that the therapist would fart if the child did something they weren't supposed to.
It's been awhile since I've been here! So I won't feel bad if no one sees my post here. Anyone can answer if they see this....
Tenaciouscj, You said you were recently diagnosed Aspie. Were you a late talker? Or are aspie's never late talkers? Do most autistic people learn to speak fluently? My daughter is learning to speak but it's "patchy" (I guess that's how I'd describe it). She is getting really good at receptive language. She mostly uses single words and some phrases she's been taught. She seems really "with it" I strongly feel she in not retarded (like her IQ test says).
Tenaciouscj...... you said "fart" LOL. :lol:
- Amy - 07-29-2005 02:01 PM
There is supposed to be a distinction that people are diagnosed with aspergers when they dont have a speech delay, if there was a delay then it would be an autism diagnosis.]
But it seems lots of aspies did have a speech delay, including me.
I saw a poll once and about a quarter of diagnosed aspies did have a speech delay.
- tenaciouscj - 08-20-2005 04:54 AM
Sunny Daze, I talked quite early but think that some of my speech was probably a bit strange as I couldn't always get people to understand. From what I can remember and it is a bit hazy, I would put big words that I'd heard from adults into sentences - sometimes in context but sometimes a bit off context.
As for the fetish about touching people, I think I did it mainly out of boredom and insecurity and because I liked feeling things that were cool and smooth. Mum taught me how nice it was to stroke cat's fur and I lost interest in the other one, thank goodness.
With your daughter and her wanting to feel boobs, maybe she is looking for attention somehow so having people give a big reaction is reinforcing the behaviour.