Being one of the folks who has never, or at least not yet, been able to navigate the sort of intimacy required for romantic partnership or parenting, I've been wondering ever since I joined this discussion board how it is that so many folks here manage to do it. I'm good at friendship, I think, but sex, romance, and confronting emotional demons that intimacy can bring up from the depths--I don't see how it is made to work. Just the idea of sharing a bed with somebody every night--cringe!
And there's a lesson here--not everyone is alike. I can do "executive function" pretty well, yet many on the board have said that they really struggle with it. Others can do sexual intimacy well, and I can't.
Years of therapy could possibly have been more profitably spent if we could have focussed on asperger-related issues.
Well gee, by that definition, Daniel Tammet can't possibly be on the spectrum, cuz by golly, he has been in love with his domestic partner and they've lived together for years. Phhhttt!!
...Or Liane Holliday Willey, who is mentioned in the article.
Paints the situation as rather hopeless for those of us who want to have children one day. Good to hear someone refuting that kind of crap.
I have 4 siblings who have done the marriage/progeny thing so I was off the hook from parental pressure in that department. In fact it was the opposite. My parents told me I shouldn't get married because the man would not be getting a fair deal due to my extreme focus on work (i.e. special interests). That was hurtful to me.
WAIT A MOMENT!
Asperger's is a condition on the spectrum of autism disorders that most people associate with children and teens, but Marshack has about 15 patients who are either adults with Asperger's or are the spouses or grown children of them.
[...]
"Almost by definition, an Asperger's person would not form an intimate relationship, get married and have children," says research scientist Katherine Tsatsanis of the Yale Developmental Disabilities Clinic. "They don't form connections. The desire, the drive and the social knowledge is lacking."
[...]
Forming close friendships and dating run counter to Asperger's adults' goals, colleague Tsatsanis says; Klin says he has never known a parent with Asperger's.
Does anyone else see the inconsistency here?
"Helping professionals", even those who purport to be advocates of the "disabled," have a vested interest in promulgating the notion that difference equals dysfunction. Obviously, neurotypical Americans have a more than 50% divorce rate and that only accounts for the married people. Imagine all the failed relationships that never resulted in marriage. How many children of neurotypicals have been abused or otherwise traumatized by their parents and need therapy just to overcome thier childhood? Can people with Asperger's really do any worse? I doubt it.
I am the parent of a 20-year old man with Asperger's. He has had a few girlfriends. Asperger's certainly has not effected his sperm count since I became a grandmother almost 1 year ago. He was afraid to tell me because he thought I would be upset. (I was upset. But I have recovered.) Nonetheless, he was visiting his son regularly and I believe he is going to make a great father.
"Almost by definition, an Asperger's person would not form an intimate relationship, get married and have children," says research scientist Katherine Tsatsanis of the Yale Developmental Disabilities Clinic. "They don't form connections. The desire, the drive and the social knowledge is lacking
I wonder what she would say about this: http://cap.autistics.org/ or about this: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22...s+speak%22
....self-esteem that results from the coldness and egocentricity Asperger's adults demonstrate in relationships, she says.
That line was kind of an insult. If they read alot of what we say online, they would learn how alot of us are far from egocentric. The rest of it didn't seem that bad to me.
There is probably a grain of truth to what she said; there are quite a bit of AS and autistic folk that don't get married.
There is probably a grain of truth to what she said; there are quite a bit of AS and autistic folk that don't get married.
Yeah, I'm one of them. As I wrote in another post somewhere, I'm amazed at anyone--NT or AS--who manages to pull off the high level of emotional and sexual intimacy that is required for a good marriage. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the aspie population is asexual. (Asexuals can marry, but I'd guess it's less common.)
I know a fair number of NT guys looking for Ms Right and NT women looking for Mr Right.
Strong generalizations are dangerous/misleading. One will get called on them.
Thanks interviewed folk. The media around here is really nasty about supporting their own selected perspectives. I was always scepticle about these "reaserch needed" post people. Not sure if anyone doing this so called "research", on various things as they claim, can be trusted.
And many who are not in relationships long to be. I was most concerned with Dr. Tsetsefly's statement "Forming close friendships and dating run counter to Asperger's adults' goals"
I just don't think that is nearly as universal as she declares.
And I'm concerned that they sought out what seems to be such an extreme point of view.
I think it's just that the worst-case scenarios are OVER REPRESENTED in diagnosis. After all if you're seeing a psychiatrist then it's usually after some major life event (depression/suicide/etc).
I think it's just that the worst-case scenarios are OVER REPRESENTED in diagnosis. After all if you're seeing a psychiatrist then it's usually after some major life event (depression/suicide/etc).
Well put. I thought about how my father would put it:
Hi, doctor. I am sorry to bother you, but I have a problem which I think might be due to my Asperger's syndrome.
You see, because "Forming close friendships and dating run counter to Asperger's adults' goals" I have never been able to cheat on my wife of 51 years, unlike many NT men I have known.
Guess Who, I think that it is so difficult for us to find a good partner in the first place, that, if we are lucky enough to find them, we are much less likely to look elsewhere. I think that it might be much harder to be loyal if you see temptation everywhere you look.
My Dad had an Aspie father who was loyal - when he lost his first wife to TB he re-married later and they stayed married until his death.
My parents have been married for 51 years, raised four children and have 13 grandchildren and two great-grandchildren.
I have been married to my Aspie husband for nearly 28 years, have three adult and two teenage children and two grandchildren.
Most of the adult Aspies I know have married successfully and raised families.
We don't show up in the statistics because we 'fly under the radar' - no diagnoses, no 'therapy', just living our lives.
Perhaps these 'researchers' should actually
research, e.g. by reading all the posts on all these boards, instead of just interviewing and quoting people who will provide reinforcement of a prejudiced headline.
No one would question that my 12-year-old is on the spectrum. It is just too obvious. Since we have not obtained an official diagnosis, what is in question is whether he is HFA or AS. His standardized tests come back at the 98th and 99th percentiles, which argues for AS. His echolalia / palilalia argues for HFA.
It really doesn't matter for the purposes of this discussion. What matters is that he has 2 best friends, ie, young men who'd rather spend the day with John than with anyone. Who could ask for more? And I expect that when he decides that he likes girls he'll do OK. He is being raised to have a strong sense of himself and confidence in who he is.
He is so much more put together than I was at this critical middle school age. I had the message that something was wrong with me, I needed to shape up, nobody liked me and that was entirely my fault, etc, etc. He has the idea that he is a valuable person who can find his place, be happy just the way he is, and lead a healthy life. How can that not be attractive? The most attractive thing about any person is liking him/herself.
If only I'd got those messages growing up. It wasn't anybody's fault - it was just the way things were back then.
Of course, really intelligent women wouldn't just take one article as the Gospel according to Asperger's: so there is hope yet.