I loved the Michael Moore movie today, Sicko.
1. I felt sad to be an American. My left-leaning ideas about the strong helping the weak are not in vogue.
2. I saw Britain, Canada, France, and Cuba in the movie.
This is the second time in a year I've considered Canadian citizenship.
a. It is better for France to get 80% of its electricity from nuclear fission than it is to have 150,000 troops in Iraq to run our electric turbines with oil
b. Reminded that the rest of the civilized world believes in things like multilateral military action, carbon dioxide reductions, no capital punishment, national health care
c. Wonder how many kids lives we could save for the cost of one B2 bomber?
d. If somebody hates us, maybe they don't like us throwing our weight around in places like the Middle East
e. Or maybe they think money has a better purpose than on weapons and tax breaks for the rich
They told us in school (1980s) that the Soviets wanted to stuff Communism down our throats.
Now, Reagan did defeat European Communism (fortunately without a nuclear war)
But there is no Warsaw Pact, and we still have NATO, and we still had a pretty big military before 9/11, and troops in Europe (why? who are we protecting them from?)
Now that I read about dwindling oil supplies and the agenda about the American Empire, maybe old Andropov was on to something, yes?
I also think the civilized world does not care which two consenting adults get married. That is my own opinion and I don't always agree with dogma.
Not to mention, most of those countries are socialist and get most of their hospital money by offering huge taxes.
I tried to see if AS and autism were on the list. I could not. Thanks, M, for noticing.
So why do I have insurance then?
My co-worker had an interesting observation: are these people enrolled by themselves in an insurance company or pooled together with others (co-workers, generally)?
He noted we at work are pooled together and greater expenses are tolerated because the expenses of one person are diluted by the non-expenses of others. If you're on your own, I guess there is no need to fear 500 people (and their dependents and spouses) will drop the plan and find another.
But I am insured because I am employed. Now, being employed with health insurance is not an easy matter for Aspies, I realize. Between May 1995 and February 2008 I was not covered by traditional insurance.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lifetime insurance coverage:
Age 0 to age 17 (not sure what insurance we had when Dad briefly left Federal employment, maybe continuation of Federal BCBS):
Federal employees' Blue Cross-Blue Shield
Dad retired: Age 17 to Age 22: Federal retirees' Blue Cross-Blue Shield, aged out
Age 22 to Age 25 (May 1995): temporary continuation of coverage, Mail Handlers' (Note! If you are a Federal employee or retiree or dependent thereof, look into temporary continuation of coverage, you pay the whole unsubsidized rate but better than nothing!)
Age 25: Summer 1995: none
Age 25-26 [to May 11 1996]: Cheap insurance plan for university students (unused)
Age 26-27 (to October 1, 1997): none Hit with cancer March 3 1997
27 (October 1 1997 to March 9 1998): Medicaid
March 9, 1998 to September 3, 1998: Federal employee Blue Cross-Blue Shield
September 3, 1998 to October 4, 1999: Same, but temporary continuation of coverage
October 4, 1999 to March, 2006: MAMSI HMO
March 2006 - present: Anthem BCBS
I should note: Temporary Continuation of Coverage, maximum three years, 36 months, full unsubsidized rate plus 2% administrative fee.
For a single, generally the full unsubsidized rate is between one and two hundred dollars per month.
The message gets across but he bends some facts to his liking. The Canadian health care system is not perfect. It is not free. We pay a lot of taxes here, they pay for it. A wait for a specialist is not 6 weeks like Moore says, you can be dying of cancer and have to wait over 3 months for a major consultation depending on the scenario. It took me 6 months to see the Autism specialist, and that was considered early. My dad just got 4 months to see a nose, ear, throat specialist.
I just wish he was fully truthful for once, but then it would be taken less seriously. Its still doing a great job of getting the message across though since it needs to be heard.
I agree that the film has a great message, that Moore did a great job getting it across, and that it is being seen by many (its grossed around $20 mil so far which is goof for a documentary).
I don't think I'll debate further, as there's no need to since I understand your point now and agree with you that the American Health Care system is nowhere near as good as it should be. I was basing my arguments off of what he's said in interviews, sorry.
I finally saw the movie and did not like or agree with it at all. Michael Moore is a sickness. He lied the entire movie and he is nothing more than a figure of propaganda. As always, I'll back up my claims with proof.
The scene where he says "here is the average Canadian hospital waiting room". That was false. That was probably the smallest one I've ever seen in some small town with a population of 200. The hospital by my cottage, which the population is just over 1000, is busier than that. A normal hospital wait can be from 2 to 6 hours here.
Secondly, he skates over the question of Canadians paying taxes. Furthermore, putting a scene in a movie where an American illegally takes our drugs encourages other Americans to do so. There was a reason the police came. I thought he was a real *** for putting that in the movie.
Thirdly, Canadians are not fully satisfied with our health care. I have about a dozen sad stories I can tell you as well. Like the fact that one of my family members was dying of cancer and desperately needed an operation and went to the States because it would be quicker. The fact that another Uncle died because the Doctor gave the wrong prognosis and didn't notice he had a tumor.
The icing on the cake was the 9/11 Rescue Workers that were treated in Cuba. Moore played on people's sensitive emotions towards that tragedy because when you hear "9/11 workers denied service" you think its horrible. The reality is this: One guy grinds his teeth. Thats a dental issue, not medical. One person had a cough. No one was dying of cancer, no one had severe illnesses. It was just a cop out. He also didn't fully disclose what they had.
Halfway through the movie my mum got up and said "what bullshit" and left. She came back to basically counter everything else in the film and I did my own reading and agreed. Moore's movie is bullshit. Another "feel bad for us but I personally won't do anything about it" film. There are just as many sad stories here that they are there, and the fact that he encourages people to take from us is childish.
His "anonymous" donation to the hating Michael Moore guy? Not anonymous when you put it in your movie and say you gave it. He just wanted attention.
You like Moore way too much Max. I have actually been a big fan of Moore's and have gotten into several arguments with people regarding his films, but it was this film that undid my being a fan of his work.
The proof is this: He said specifically, "this is the average Canadian waiting room." No it is not. They did not film it on a film stage, that doesn't make any sense. He twists things to make it look the way he wants it to. He could have gone to Toronto and filmed the waiting room for "
On the 9/11 workers, I think you misread what I wrote. I was referring to those specific people he had treated in the film. I fully realize and acknowledge that there were people who became paralyzed, who did get lung cancer, who got crushed etc. If those people were denied service then that is an absolute shame, because they deserve it. I was referring specifically to those in the movie, like the guy who grinds his teeth when he slept. That is not as important as a 9/11 rescue worker who, like your friend, severely injured her back and is now paralyzed and needs assistance. I hope I made more sense this time. That was the point I was trying to make.
We do not have intense bitterness towards the health care system. My father has been a Toronto EMS Paramedic for 21 years now, saving lives every single day. My mother was an ER nurse until 1998 (17 years) when she had so many surgeries that she needed time to recover. She still hasn't gone back, but does not receive "medical leave" pay. When she decides to go back she has to do some more tests. Currently she is planning to do psychology.
So my mum has had experience with working in the health care field (she was nurse who treated patients and cut them open if necessary) and who has experienced it herself. 4 years she was in and out of hospitals. Its a sad tale (like how a nurse was going to give her more blood and my mum refused it because she knew as a nurse if she received anymore she would die. The nurse argued but a Doctor came and noted the same thing.) My mum has also gotten treatment in the States as well. I've brought her up a lot, and we don't always get along (my mum and I) but she made some very good points.
My dad and I and both agreed after it finished that it wasn't fully truthful but that it got a message across. He simply stated that "why don't they do the system where the rich pay more taxes" to make it universal but I'm sure many wouldn't like that.
On him skating over the fact of Canadians paying taxes, he did. He spent literally 5 seconds on it. Mentioned it once the whole movie. Of course there will be more bad stories in the States, your population is 270 million more people than ours.
The US health care system could definitely be a lot better, but its moreso the movie that needs to present it better. The house in France seen as a a typical "French" home? No it isn't. I've been to Europe (lived in Italy for four months, relatives have gone to France and stayed at friends places) and they were definitely not like that.
As I have stated, I am not a Moore hater. In fact if he made his films truthful (I'm talking no quick edits to take things out of context) than his message would be even greater. As someone who does write articles and is truthful, I find it is like lying, because I cite my sources and make sure they are as accurate as possible, and I don't take things out of context.
I have provided proof, but it is Moore Lovers who don't want to see it. I may have been irritated in the first post, but I am rational and believe that it is good he gets these messages across but he isn't doing it cleanly.
Max, I didn't refute all of my points, and I didn't say put in my view, I said be honest. By saying "this is an average Canadian hospital waiting room" is lying. He could say "this is a Canadian hospital waiting room" but by saying average it implies that they're that small. I wasn't just talking about the people, the room itself is minuscule.
I am not personally attacking you and am trying to be as reasonable as possible. I already told you I was a fan of Moore, quite a big one in fact before I saw this movie. I've seen: Roger & Me, Bowling For Columbine (4 times) and Fahrenheit 9/11 (3 times). I never said I hated him at all, and I don't understand why you're taking it so personal. You are defending the guy like how an Apple fan defends Steve Jobs (which isn't always a bad thing).
That was not an average French home, I'm sorry if thats hard to accept. He decides to make things how he wants. I'm sure if he made a film called "the epidemic of Autism" and it twisted every damn fact about Autism, something you are knowledgeable about, you'd be pretty teed off. The Toronto Star absolutely shredded this movie's Canadian "facts" with accurate ones. My father also pointed out that because of Moore's Columbine movie, that tragedy became so well known and mainstream. It was played a lot in the news at the time, yes, but now it can be permanently seen because of that movie. The facts in that too like "Canadians leave their doors unlocked" is also untrue.
I also cannot understand why you keep bringing my mum up either. I use her as an example as far as medical knowledge goes, but I don't agree with 3.9/4 of her views, this being the exception.
I'm not concerned with the ideas of the movie at all. I said it has a good message, and I was shocked and involved in the movie for the first hour.
I really think my point is not getting across. Okay, take it or leave it, this is my main point: By showing things like the waiting room is like that or that the French have it that much better, it makes Americas who are the main audience of the movie believe that they have it worse than they do (and I'm not saying the health care system is good, I have stated that the movie had a good message) so that they do something about it which is more or less propaganda. Its just that he neglected to put in details. You are taking his word for it that all of those people were there for that and it wasn't exaggerated. You didn't see their medical records. When people go to court they exaggerate the incident a lot, same so with reality shows and with movies like Moore's. I'm sorry but I am being more than rational, and CNN actually has a site that points out and corrects his (and some of there) mistakes. It is still up. I'll go and review it now.
Look at Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth". That was very accurate, was great and has made some change. They are of course different topics, but people took Al Gore's word better since the guy has the reputation. I'd believe someone who has a history in the medical field (as a reporter or what not) to make the film more than Moore who has an agenda. He most likely gave that donation to the guy planning in advance, whether he was thanked or not, to include it in the film. Look how many celebrities donate to charity but have so many photogs and a ribbon they cut and its on the front page of the paper. Its all for publicity.
Did you just call my mum a stupid nurse? Whats the point of that other than to make me want to insult you; which I won't do since I still agree with a lot of your other posts.
In that particular sense, it does. Americans will see that and go "their waiting rooms are so much shorter than ours." Why doesn't he basically encourage them to move here to get our health care. You are taking this a bit far now. His agenda is to make himself look good and do anything to get there. If your huge defense of him stems from his massive support of LGBT rights than please say so, because its great what he's doing for those causes (like sticking it to that guy who protested gay funerals). Seriously, I'm just going to stop arguing now because I respect your opinion on so many other posts and I don't want to ruin any type of getting along we have.
Why not separate the routine medical care (broken bones) from the advanced expensive miracle stuff and make the routine medical care cheaper?
Don't take that offensively Max, if he was a huge supporter of Autism Rights I'll admit I'd probably be pretty biased towards him. How could washing your car on a gay agenda anyway? I know there's a difference between activism and being sociable and having a good time, separate from being serious.
I apologize on the mum comment, I misread it. Yeah, that nurse was going to do that.
I'm glad this is sorted out, and thanks for having this debate with me Max *puts hand out*.