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This article doesn't mention autism secifically, but it talks breifly about genetic engineering and what it means for "undesirbale traits", and some other things I thought were relevant.  Here's the article:  http://www.newscientist.com/channel/bein...lving.html

Here's some excerpts:

Quote:
One form of the dopamine receptor gene DRD4 has become much more common over the past few thousand years. The rate of increase suggests the gene has been positively selected for, though it's not clear why: the variant is associated with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

(it's clear from the way they discuss this, they have no idea why anyone would want to have kids with someone with- *gasp*- ADHD.  Rolleyes )

Quote:
"Without a doubt, the most important selective pressures continue to be on brain function," says Wills.

This is one reason why Lahn's discovery of recent brain evolution has created such a stir. Lahn agrees with Wills that the defining feature of human evolution is that our minds have shaped our environment, which in turn has led to evolutionary changes in the way we think, and he is convinced it is continuing. Wills goes further, arguing that in the modern world nobody can do everything, so the advantage lies in being good at something that not many others can do well. "My prediction is that we are not simply getting smarter, we are selecting for more variability in our behaviours," he says.


Ooooohhh....  that looks like it would be good news for aspies.  Our intense focus and tendency to become experts in a certain area makes us favorable mates!  Big Grin


Quote:
Miller foresees a future in which parents try to eliminate traits that they personally find undesirable, but says it's impossible to predict how that will affect the human gene pool. There are, however, human characteristics that will probably always be seen as desirable, and are likely to be actively selected for by genetic technology. In 1000 years, Miller predicts, "people will be much more beautiful, intelligent, symmetrical, healthy and emotionally stable, due to 40 generations of genetic screening against harmful mutations".


Sad  Of course, this guy makes the assumption that humans all agree on what makes someone beautiful & other desirable traits.  We don't.  Haven't you ever seen someone walking around with their arm around someone who is hideously ugly?  Physical "beauty" is not as strongly selected for as people seem to think.  After all, there are plenty of people out there who can find merit in a person who is not classically "beautiful", be it because of their personality or mind or other reasons.

Quote:
So where are we heading? Most experts agree that trying to predict the direction of evolution is a fruitless exercise. "Evolution is not really a predictive science," says Jones. Others point out that we may not like where we're heading. "Perhaps we will so befoul our planet," says Dennett, "that only an eccentric and hardy remnant of our species - which can survive on earthworms while living in underground burrows, for instance - will remain."


Big Grin  That made me laugh.

quickduck

Fascinating…I particularly like the idea that a gene associated with ADHD might have been positively selected for. I have ADHD which can manifest itself as an inability to direct my attention toward long term goals; as well as being rather troublesome or trouble causing at work.

My attention seems drawn toward specialist interests and/or things that inspire me. But I believe that my free floating attention make me more creative--allowing me to associate disparate ideas. If ADHD does improve creativity perhaps this is why it has been selected for.

It makes me wonder whether genetic engineering could end up making us less rather than more intelligent. If ADHD or AS were engineered out of the human population we might also loose many of the traits we most value--creativity, individuality, ability to specialise, scientific skills.

Do all aspies have an attention deficit or is it just me?
I have two issues when this topic comes up.

The first issues is that when people talk about evolution, they see any mutations as being for the "reason" of improvement. Casting the mythical "Mother Nature" as a thinking being choosing what is best for design features. What is "natural" is considered to be what is best. "As nature intended."  The truth of the matter is, chance mutations and "nature" do not automatically produce the optimum best designs.  "Nature's" only requirement is that the particular model survive long enough to reproduce itself.  It doesn't even have to survive the reproduction experience.

The second factor is that the well equipped, well toned, well nourished, highest educated, Beautiful People class in humans tend to produce the least offspring these days.  Sometimes women temporarily stop having reproductive cycles when they are very poorly nourished which would ultimately result in the side effect that models who are not in a good survival situation would not reproduce.  However, it doesn't seem to be a limitation happening enough to have real impact.

Admittedly though, lifespans do seem to be on the rise.

silky Wrote:
The first issues is that when people talk about evolution, they see any mutations as being for the "reason" of improvement. Casting the mythical "Mother Nature" as a thinking being choosing what is best for design features.


I don't think this is true of even the majority of people I have heard talking about evolution. It is true, however, that in the harsh environment of the wild, it is the better adapted which are going to survive and replicate themselves. This is not the same as arguing that Mother Nature is a sentient entity, which is something that no-one - I believe - will ever be able to prove or disprove for sure.

(Personally, I don't think there is any divine plan.)

The assumption that human evolution would ever stop or slow is based on an incorrect notion -- that every one of our ancestors that has come before is nothing more than some kind of demi-human that are leading up to "us". The community's idea of evolution, for some reason, does not contain the idea that we are developing towards something else. I personally don't see why the notion of evolutionary continuation should be such an unexpected one.

Thanks for posting the article Luai_lashire. It is interesting Smile

nyanchan Wrote:
The assumption that human evolution would ever stop or slow is based on an incorrect notion -- that every one of our ancestors that has come before is nothing more than some kind of demi-human that are leading up to "us". The community's idea of evolution, for some reason, does not contain the idea that we are developing towards something else. I personally don't see why the notion of evolutionary continuation should be such an unexpected one.


Exactly!  The people who wrote this article seem to have some notion that where we are now is "perfect" and that anything different = bad- even though the process of evolution will go on, always, as is natural for it to do.

quickduck Wrote:
Fascinating…I particularly like the idea that a gene associated with ADHD might have been positively selected for. I have ADHD which can manifest itself as an inability to direct my attention toward long term goals; as well as being rather troublesome or trouble causing at work.

My attention seems drawn toward specialist interests and/or things that inspire me. But I believe that my free floating attention make me more creative--allowing me to associate disparate ideas. If ADHD does improve creativity perhaps this is why it has been selected for.

It makes me wonder whether genetic engineering could end up making us less rather than more intelligent. If ADHD or AS were engineered out of the human population we might also loose many of the traits we most value--creativity, individuality, ability to specialise, scientific skills.

Do all aspies have an attention deficit or is it just me?


This, to me, is the ultimate irony of the NT vs. Autistic struggle.  Those NTs who are pro-cure or pro-prenatal testing, assume that everything there is about ASDs and other disorders, like ADHD (which, curiously, seems to be related to ASD) is bad bad bad.  They are so blinded by this view that it hasn't even occured to them that the reason this gene was selected for is because, just maybe, ADHD has positives too- positives that can be enough to outwiegh the negatives and make it a desirable trait.
It is so sad to me, that some of the most brilliant and beautiful people in the world would be lost to us forever in these people's future, because their concept of what is "good" is so narrow.

Luai_lashire Wrote:

nyanchan Wrote:
The assumption that human evolution would ever stop or slow is based on an incorrect notion -- that every one of our ancestors that has come before is nothing more than some kind of demi-human that are leading up to "us". The community's idea of evolution, for some reason, does not contain the idea that we are developing towards something else. I personally don't see why the notion of evolutionary continuation should be such an unexpected one.


Exactly!  The people who wrote this article seem to have some notion that where we are now is "perfect" and that anything different = bad- even though the process of evolution will go on, always, as is natural for it to do.

quickduck Wrote:
Fascinating…I particularly like the idea that a gene associated with ADHD might have been positively selected for. I have ADHD which can manifest itself as an inability to direct my attention toward long term goals; as well as being rather troublesome or trouble causing at work.

My attention seems drawn toward specialist interests and/or things that inspire me. But I believe that my free floating attention make me more creative--allowing me to associate disparate ideas. If ADHD does improve creativity perhaps this is why it has been selected for.

It makes me wonder whether genetic engineering could end up making us less rather than more intelligent. If ADHD or AS were engineered out of the human population we might also loose many of the traits we most value--creativity, individuality, ability to specialise, scientific skills.

Do all aspies have an attention deficit or is it just me?


This, to me, is the ultimate irony of the NT vs. Autistic struggle.  Those NTs who are pro-cure or pro-prenatal testing, assume that everything there is about ASDs and other disorders, like ADHD (which, curiously, seems to be related to ASD) is bad bad bad.  They are so blinded by this view that it hasn't even occured to them that the reason this gene was selected for is because, just maybe, ADHD has positives too- positives that can be enough to outwiegh the negatives and make it a desirable trait.
It is so sad to me, that some of the most brilliant and beautiful people in the world would be lost to us forever in these people's future, because their concept of what is "good" is so narrow.


I think Miller was scare mongering about the future of genetic engineering in order to raise a debate about how far it is acceptable to go.

Nice...and just what we need!  Big Grin

Except that evolution might not always follow the logic of what is better for humanity and the earth.  Just who is breeding more human children these days?
More children... as in a cultural preference for large families?

Generally - pre-industrial countries that tendancy but with an associated high mortality rate.  Families in Industrial countries tend to put all the eggs in one basket and have 1 or 2 kids.  Immigrants from pre-industrial countries loose the cultural preference for large families over the generations as they have to invest economic wealth in their education etc, whereas in pre-industrial countries children are seen as economic assetts that bring money into the family.  A small amount of immigration tends for greater diversity in the gene pool, or boat - whatever.  Smile
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