Aspies For Freedom

Bill Maher is a very well known comedian in the us. Mr Maher last night,  equated being religious is a neurological disorder and flying planes into a building.




http://worldnetdaily .com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42906

So  maybe autistics should not be on planes for fear of flying them into buildings as those with neurological disorders are wont to do  according to mr maher.

I don't recall hearing this from Bill Maher. I know he got a lot of flack after 9/11 because he disagreed with people who called the highjackers "cowards." Maher said it takes a lot of guts to fly into a building. But the only people who knew that would happen were the four pilots and others who planned 9/11.

          The other fifteen didn't know their fate and as far as the rest of what they did, they were cowards and religious fanatics as well so I can only agree with Maher on 4/19. He was 26.3% right.

                                                Jerry Newport

I'm just being picky, but doesn't the way Bill Maher descibes religion - "something that was drilled into your head when you were a small child" - make it sound more like a psychological disorder than a neurological one?

I am not religious myself, and Maher's words on the subject don't offend me.

Now, as his programme is called Politically Incorrect, this means he has to be controversial. I saw it once a long time ago, and they were having some lame discussion about smokers' rights. But recently it seems Maher decided to go a bit further, and make jokes about disabled children.

From http://www.wsf.org/family/news/mahercomments.htm

Politically Incorrect Bill Maher Slurs Mentally ***

I thank Cathy Mindel, mother of Eric with WS, for sending out the following alert to WS parents. It deals with a crude slur against individuals who are *** by Politically Incorrect host Bill Maher.  In addition, I have appended a sad apology by Mr. Maher, and an op-ed piece on the subject that appeared in the 1/27/01 Los Angeles Times. As Cathy suggests, I urge you to take the time to voice your complaints to ABC via: netaudr@abc.com .   Also, it may help to write to both the Disney Corporation (ABC's parent company) and the show's sponsors to express your outrage at Mr. Maher's comments.

----------------------

The following is a transcript from the ABC Show "Politically Incorrect".  I warn you, the contents are appalling, but I felt it was necessary so parents would be able to have to opportunity to do something about it.  NOTE: The ABC network has since removed the transcript of Maher's remarks from its archives.


Bill: But I've often said that if I had -- I have two dogs -- if I had two *** children, I'd be a hero.  And yet the dogs, which are pretty much the same thing --

[ Laughter ]

What? They're sweet. They're loving.  They're kind, but they don't mentally advance at all.

Cynthia: I'm going to throw my shoe at you for that one -- oh!

Bill: What? Dogs are like *** children.

Jay: The show is living up to its name.

[ Scattered boos]

Sarah: Boo.

Cynthia: My 9-year-old nephew is ***.  I've never thought of him like a little dog.

Bill: Well, maybe you should.

[ Scattered boos ]

Sarah: But I don't think you ought to use the word ***.  I don't think that's right.

Bill: Don't use the word "***"? Well, what word should we use?

Sarah: Just a regular person.

Bill: But they're not a regular person.

Sarah: Well, they are regular people.  They have a heart and a soul.

Cynthia: Limitations.

Bill: They have a heart and a soul and a brain that's ***.   That's a fact, people! Excuse me!

Sarah: No, because you can't say that.  Do you know their brain is *** -- this word ***? They could just be lacking in the ability.

Bill: That's what we call ***.

[ Laughter ]

I mean, people, are you all ***? I mean --

[ Laughter ]

That's a fact.

Martin: I'm not gonna comment.  You're a hideous, cold person.

If you feel as horrified as I do , please send your comments in to ABC at: netaudr@abc.com

-------------------------------------

And here is the apology made on January 18, 2001:

Bill: Panel, I have to ask your indulgence here just for a minute so I can talk to the camera here, because I wanna make an apology to the mentally ill and their families.  

I made some comments last week on the show, which were wrong. And I'm sorry about that.   Also, I would like to apologize to ABC.  They didn't ask me to do that but, you know, there's no reason why they should have to put up with and answer for my faux pases.

I appreciate the freedom that they give me, and I'm sorry sometimes I don't control it very well.  I offer no excuses, because none would be proper, or adequate.  And I certainly didn't mean what I said the way it came out.  And it certainly is never the point of the show to try to pick on anyone with any affliction.

So I am sorry about it and I hope they accept that -- and speaking of eating crow, let's talk about Jesse Jackson.

Beth: Good for you, Bill. Good for you.

[ Applause ]

Bill: That's the great thing about America. When you screw up, somebody the next day takes you right off the front page --

[ Laughter ]

with something else.  And Jesse Jackson, obviously, is the one who is in the spotlight now.  You know him.... (etc.)

-------------------------------

It is a bit offensive, but then, comedians aren't people to be taken seriously.

Hypothetically Yes, but who knows until it actually happens

Jay Shaw wrote:

Jay, I just wanted to say that I hope you are not giving to others what they want and forgetting that your own needs are important, too.  It sounds as if you are very concerned of other peoples' feelings but think not so much on what might be necessary (although possibly inappropriate-looking) behaviors that you may have.  

The reason I wonder this is because I have behaviors that seem quite inappropriate to some NT's.  I am frowned at and these things are pointed out to me, but I find myself unwilling to bend to their wishes alot of the time.  If this seems inconsiderate or selfish then, so be it.  For example, I have certain stims that I do in stressful situations that annoy (such as pacing or movement of my hands or legs) and also talk to myself out loud so that I can concentrate or categorize my thoughts.  I can look at someones eyes but cannot talk or listen well while I'm looking at someone directly.

The way that I go about sparing others' feelings is I stay clear of places and people that would see my behaviors as a distraction.  I rarely go to movies, out to dinner and any place else that I might offend others by being around them.  This is as far as I will go to accomodate others' feelings but I dream of a day when we do not have to pretend to be neurotypical to keep from being looked at as rude or offensive.

Jay, My way of talking over ideas I have (out loud), aka talking to myself) really is sometimes necessary for me to be able to comprehend and organize my thoughts.  It is done most of the time without me actually realizing that I'm doing it.  I only realize that I have been vocalizing my thoughts out loud when someone brings it to my attention.  Most of the stims I do are done without me being aware that I am doing them (as I write this to you, I have noticed I am rocking back & forth).

This quote truly breaks my heart Jay, because I cannot imagine all of the self-regulating and monitoring you have to do to appear neurotypical.  When I was younger, I was able to appear somewhat like my peers (although still quite "quirky" I am sure) but I paid dearly for all of the suppressed natural behaviors.  I regularly had melt-downs of anger or severe migraines - I physically became sick because my body was not able to release the stress of me trying to live like a neurotypical person.  I also became severely depressed because no matter how hard I tried to be like others, I still seemed to fall just a few behaviors/actions short of what was expected of me.  No matter what I did, relationships failed and people still saw me as odd.  As I get older it has become more and more difficult to hide who I am.  Maybe because I can't even remember the reasons I wanted to appear like a neurotypical person.  All I know is my depression is a thing of the past…I mean it is gone, completely.  No drugs, no therapy, just *poof*  gone.  I know it is because I am trying to live my life as I should have always done.  I live my life not as a neurotypical but as the high functioning autistic person that I am.  I am not ashamed of who I am anymore.  

My lifestyle is, I think, in many ways different than yours, Jay.  I have found work in an area where I am able to be more myself than a few of the jobs I have had in the past.  This is very important for Autistics, I believe.  To find a place that suits us.  There are a few that do not understand me, but there are a surprising amount of NT's that actually like me, too.  Oh not exactly like they enjoy each others company, but they enjoy talking with me and they interact with me in a whole different way than they are accustomed to interacting with people.  

Jay, you have no idea how many of my friends are so comfortable around me that they do these very things.  I don't care, I have no sense of status or rank (oops, hehe pardon the "rank" pun).  I talk with EVERYONE from the Corporate Big Wigs to the Homeless with the same amount of respect and dignity that I feel all humans deserve from me.

Not just inappropriate but illegal in public.  I do not engage in illegal activities (at least not as an adult)   .

Another difference between us, Jay.  I refuse to allow what other people think of me to influence me in a way that I would have to alter who I am.  As for status and success, I have no need for these things either.  I am loved and I have as much money as I need to survive (we could all use a little more, but I'm content) but most of all I am happy.   To me, that is success enough.  

So sorry to get off the main subject so completely  :oops:

I have to say that I appear to have similar such problems as monastic - OK I tend to "hold in" the most obvious stuff in public (after years of being told off for tic-like utterances, movements, tip-toeing, stimming etc. this is somewhat automatic) but the kind of social awareness and ability to "act" or "study nonverbal communication intellectually" that many describe is something that baffles me time and time again.

Yes there are some things I can learn to recognise and imitate but there is so much stuff that I plain don't see. It simply does not register - How am I supposed to be able to recognise and analyse something if I am not aware of it?

Good point - considering that most NT nonverbal communication is subconscious, I don't expect most to be able to perceive and pinpoint anything consciously even if we asked them to.

All of these behaviors you have mentioned are mainly addictive behaviors.  Addictive behaviors can be changed, it is difficult but possible.  It is possible that some may have a genetic pre-disposition to addictions such as drugs and alcohol and even overeating.  It is difficult to break even these habits but not impossible.

If legislation is needed to change the way society  treats others that are different than the norm, then I am for it.  As I have said before, I come from an era when whites were allowed to use clubs, pools, schools, restrooms, amusement parks and even water fountains while blacks were prohibited.  Women were considered to have lower intelligence (my teachers at school would "teach" this and tell the girls "It's the truth,- get used to it").  Women made less money and were at the mercy of our bosses and co-workers when it came to sexual slanders or harassment.  This was acceptable behavior in my day.  We could have had the attitude of, "Why change things?  It's natural to have these behaviors and virtually impossible to change things."  Discrimination still exists but thank goodness, little by little society is changing their behavior - It can happen and is possible to change things. It may take a long time for changes to be seen, but it can happen.

Yes, we are a touchy society.  That does not mean that we should condone actions of discrimination by staying silent thinking that it is just human nature to behave this way.  While some make statements out of ignorance others try to create bitter outbursts and negative feedback - I suppose in Bill Maher's case, not unlike Jerry Springer, it is the controversy that keeps their shows on the air.  Calling mentally challenged kids Retards and comparing them to Dogs, Maher surely knew would cause controversy and a lot of press, too.

Jay, there are two things that bother me about your post.  First is why would you post that it is "virtually impossible" to change the behavior of humans for the benefit of society also stating that "legislation without harsh punishment would be largely ineffective" in a forum that is titled Aspies For Freedom?   The main goal of AFF is Fighting for the Rights of Autistics against the abusive treatment of All Autistics and bringing about legislation so that autistics can be considered a minority group.  Is this a goal you do not see as possible or as beneficial to society?  
Secondly, why would you bring up Big Brother already having his nose where it doesn't belong when talking about changing the way society behaves when you work for the Department of Defense?  The US Government, Dept. of Justice and Dept. of Defense is all about monitoring the movements, electronic mailings and goings on of the majority of its US citizens with the Patriot Act.  I will be the first to say that I am very cautious (yes, perhaps even paranoid) of people but I can't help but notice that this isn't the first time I have heard you act as if mimicking neurotypicals and conforming to their ways is better than trying to change the way society views us.  You can change the way society acts, it can happen - I have seen it happen in my lifetime.  Martin Luther King, Jr. was not able to see his dream come to pass but hopefully, a few of us will still be around to see things change for autistics.

Thank you Jay, for responding so promptly.  I am a curious person by nature.  I ask people alot of questions and sometimes I can be quite annoying in doing so.  

This has been a rough week for my son and I concerning autistic/neurotypical interaction and discrimination problems so I am quite passionate about this subject especially today.  

I do enjoy speaking with you and enjoy reading your posts.  I understand the need to work to survive.  I too, have worked places for financial purposes only.

I find that the most ironic thing about eating healthy is that it is quite expensive to have a healthy diet.  

My oldest son and I were discussing this a few days ago.  We have been trying to watch our caloric intake and eat healthier but fresh fruits and veggies not to mention lean cuts of meat have really caused our grocery bills to go up.   He even said one week he went to buy distilled water and it was more expensive (twice as much) than the same amount of soda pop!  

Of course it seems understandable that many on limited income would be overweight.  They probably end up buying bread goods, pasta and starchy-sugary items just to feel full.  They seem to be cheaper to buy than the fresh items are.  

I cannot wait until I can grow my own produce and go to the local farmers market again as it helps soften the blow to my budget.

I am aware that poor diagnosis techniques are rampant in our medical system, and I am a frequent critic of this. I also agree that the best way to maintain good health is through adopting good dietary and exercise habits. As I stated earlier, I do not advocate "obesity surgery." However, this does not invalidate my main point that nearly all cases of obesity are symptomatic of poor general health.

Very young children tend to respect and fear all adults to a certain extent. In fact, this is likely one of the most basic social norms that young children learn to follow. Their behavior toward other children their age is often not so innocuous.

Social codes are deeply ingrained in the "wiring" of all primates, including humans. It is instinctual for a young human to rapidly and unconsciously gain awareness of basic social norms and to reject those who do not conform to these norms. While it is certainly possible to prevent the worst outcomes, such as acts of violence, from occurring, it would be exceedingly difficult to convince most people to wholly accept blatant violations of these norms.

http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/abstract/138/1/24

Results: Large decreases in life expectancy were associated with overweight and obesity. Forty-year-old female nonsmokers lost 3.3 years and 40-year-old male nonsmokers lost 3.1 years of life expectancy because of overweight. Forty-year-old female nonsmokers lost 7.1 years and 40-year-old male nonsmokers lost 5.8 years because of obesity. Obese female smokers lost 7.2 years and obese male smokers lost 6.7 years of life expectancy compared with normal-weight smokers. Obese female smokers lost 13.3 years and obese male smokers lost 13.7 years compared with normal-weight nonsmokers. Body mass index at ages 30 to 49 years predicted mortality after ages 50 to 69 years, even after adjustment for body mass index at age 50 to 69 years.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...t=Abstract

RESULTS: Marked race and sex differences were observed in estimated YLL. Among whites, a J- or U-shaped association was found between overweight or obesity and YLL. The optimal BMI (associated with the least YLL or greatest longevity) is approximately 23 to 25 for whites and 23 to 30 for blacks. For any given degree of overweight, younger adults generally had greater YLL than did older adults. The maximum YLL for white men aged 20 to 30 years with a severe level of obesity (BMI >45) is 13 and is 8 for white women. For men, this could represent a 22% reduction in expected remaining life span. Among black men and black women older than 60 years, overweight and moderate obesity were generally not associated with an increased YLL and only severe obesity resulted in YLL. However, blacks at younger ages with severe levels of obesity had a maximum YLL of 20 for men and 5 for women. CONCLUSION: Obesity appears to lessen life expectancy markedly, especially among younger adults.


This seems to indicate that at least some people believe that obesity is associated with a greater decrease in lifespan than you describe. In any event, it seems as though we will continue to dance around these topics endlessly if one of us does not desist at some point. I believe we have both expressed our arguments clearly enough, and it does not seem likely that either of us will alter our opinions on these subjects.

Your personal experiences seem to play a great role in your opinions on these matters, and I doubt that I would be able to completely vouch for my own objectivity, either. You are entitled to believe that obesity is not a major factor in various chronic diseases, and I am entitled to believe that it is. You are entitled to believe that common prejudice may be completely overcome by fostering cognitive awareness, while I am allowed to remain skeptical of this until I am presented with more sufficient evidence. I believe that we have already covered most of the relevant information on these topics, so I'm going to allow these horses a noble death instead of flogging them any further.