Aspies For Freedom

I am not a vegetarian because it seems very unnatural to me (Homo sapiens and its ancestor species all evolved to be omnivores). I don't object to other people doing it as long as they don't push it on other people, but it's just not something I would want to subject myself to. I do think most people (at least in the US) eat too much meat, however, and when consumed in massive amounts the health benefits of eating it are outweighed by the risks. Before humans domesticated animals, meat was a relatively uncommon, extremely valuable "treat" that was very strenuous to acquire. People need to remember that humans have not evolved to eat large quantities of meat on a daily, long-term basis, and that doing so can lead to significant health problems (as can doing away with meat altogether if one's diet is not carefully managed).

I think it would be detrimental in the long term (i.e. thousands of years) for humans to stop eating meat, as increased meat consumption in Hominids, both living and extinct species, is positively correlated in an increase in brain size (even when taking into account the body size) - the gibbons of the family Hylobatidae are the most vegetarian and have the smallest brains, while modern humans of the family Hominidae are the least vegetarian and have the largest brains. It's only only true for Primates, but for other groups of mammals as well. Take, for example, the ungulates - one group assumed a carnivorous aquatic lifestyle and became the dolphins and whales we see today, which have extremely developed brains and are considered some of the most intelligent organisms alive today. The other main group (even- and odd-toed ungulates) kept a terrestrial browsing/grazing lifestyle and has a relatively small brain-to-body-mass ratio. Terrestrial omnivores and carnivores also have larger brains, on average, than their herbivorous counterparts.

Clearly, eating meat has its intellectual advantages when considered in an evolutionary timescale.

(Also, Neandertals had a diet of approx. 85% meat -- on a par with bears etc -- and had the largest brains of any hominid ever.)

I'm not a vegetarian, but I'm working towards incorporating more fruits vegetables in my diet and less meat, sweets and carbs for health reasons.  I took an inventory of my diet at one point and realized how little I ate fresh fruits and veggies... I want to change that for health reasons.

I actually like the taste of most meats, and don't plan to go off completely because I do think eating some meat is healthy, but I'm really bothered by the way most animals are treated before they end up on the plate.

I've been a vegetarian for four years now.  The first two weeks of becoming one were tough and required alot of willpower, but now it's as natural to me as breathing.  I don't force my tofu on anyone or otherwise make a big deal out of it.

It does not bother me if other people eat meat, or even hunt and fish.  Actually, though it's not a pretty sight, it's better than factory farms.  At least the prey animal lives a natural life up until the end.  If a human hunter decides not to shoot a deer, a mountain lion will probably get it the next day.

At a wildlife sanctuary where I volunteer a few hours a week, one of my duties is pulling huge quantities of meat (about 500 lbs at a time) out of the deep-freeze and putting it in another cold room to thaw.  It might occasionally bother my back, but not my conscious.  The animals at this sanctuary are major predators in the wild, and simply cannot be vegetarians.

1. Lions do not yell the most arrogant phrase i ever heard in my life: "We were created in God's image." Humans do say it! Then they behave like lions !!!

2. Do lions lock up their prey in (small and dirty) cages?

3. Am i supposed to compare myself to a lion? (no offence to lions!!!)

4. Do humans have the same pointed teeth as lions?

5. Lions haven't got the capability of reasoning .... but we humans have !

Yes, but all that "animals vs. humans" nonsense aside, the fact of the matter is that both species, Panthera leo and Homo sapiens, have evolved to eat meat over millions of years. It's true that Felids are obligate carnivores while Hominids are omnivores, but the physiology of both types of animals is designed to be able to use meat as an energy source. It has nothing to do with whether or not one species has sharp teeth or is capable of reasoning.

I have noticed that there are two types of vegetarians (most of my friends are vegetarians/vegans)... Those that think it is immoral for a human to use an animal as a food source for any reason under any circumstances, and those that choose not to eat meat as it is produced today because the animals in many areas are often tortured and abused before being slaughtered (and, sadly, often intentionally). I find that former usually tends to not have a strong grasp of scientific concepts and cannot argue their point of view beyond "eating animals is mean", while the latter probably would eat meat if it could be produced and slaughtered as humanely as possible. I find their reasoning more scientifically and morally sound.

Where I live there are not many factory farms, and most of the cattle used for meat around here is pasture-raised on local, family-operated farms, which is one of the main reasons why I feel no strong compulsion to become a vegetarian. If I lived in an area like Missouri where most of the animals used for food are blatantly and disgustingly abused before being killed, then I would possibly reconsider my position.

Yes and no.  I would say that I am vegetarian about 96% of the time, but there are those rare occasions in which I will consent to eat some meat.  In general, though, I don't trust the stuff (all those growth hormones and other toxins).

I never say that!!! And I'm human.

Humans have canines -- they just aren't as large as those of many other apes, possibly due to eating cooked rather than raw meat.

How do you know?

However, what cats do lack is the kind of body systems that would be able to process high amounts of vegetable food.

People who are vegetarian for moral reasons are okay, as long as they don't push their morals onto others.

i'm vegan actually.  i have been since i was five--except for this one time when i went through a meat-eating phase when i was 18.  that was for about half a year.

i actually think dairy is more gross than meat though.  i'd eat meat before i ever touched cow nipple juice or chicken embryos.  ick.

I don't think there are actually any embryos in most of the eggs -- even free range. Hardly any are fertilised and even if they were -- the chick inside would not be far past the zygote stage. (And all mammals produce milk from their nipples -- I guess that's just a fact of life so I don't really understand why anyone would be grossed about it. Snakes have been known to steal milk from cattle, direct from their udders.)

ok, the eggs are not fertilized.  i'm not too fond of the idea of eating chicken periods though, either.

of course it's natural for cows to lactate, but it's not natural for us to drink their milk, just like it's not natural for a cow to drink a woman's breastmilk.  i heard somewhere that no human can drink a whole gallon of milk without throwing up.  all humans are lactose intolerant to some degree--just proves how unnatural it is for us to drink that ***.

Actually that is just an old wives' tale that was simply meant to vilify snakes and has no basis in scientific facts. This is where one species of the genus Lampropeltis got its common name - the Milksnake. In reality snakes are terrified of cattle.

No human I know can drink of gallon of anything without throwing up. Normal human stomachs cannot hold a gallon of liquid. I wouldn't call humans drinking animal milk "unnatural" either. Many populations of our species, particularly in Northern Europe, Central Asia, and East Africa, have evolved over tens of thousands of years to be able to effectively digest lactose their entire lives. How is an evolutionary adaption unnatural? Because only humans do it? Duikers are members of the family Bovidae (cattle, antelope, and kin) that have evolved over time to eat meat as well as plants. Are they unnatural because they are the only Bovids to eat meat?

That said, a human drinking milk that belongs to one of the many populations that does not have the ability to digest lactose as adults (equatorial Africans, Native Americans, etc.) actually could fall into the category of "unnatural". While it is true that some human populations simply never evolved the ability to digest milk as adults, should we comment on how "unnaturally" they are behaving when they do so? The fact that the same, simple action can be labled as "natural" for some human population groups and "unnatural" for others could be considered a slippery slope-type issue.

How is an evolutionary adaption unnatural? Because only humans do it?

no.......it's because cows produce milk for their young.

i'm not saying i never do anything unnatural.  i do plenty of unnatural things, just like most people do, but drinking cows' milk is where i draw the line.  it's just gross to me.

My cat is lactose intolerant. (More so than most cats) But she loves lactose free milk. (Just thought I'd add that to the mix.)

True, Natalie. I doubt I could even drink a gallon of water all at once without wanting to gag. (Or at the very least, wetting my pants.)

Drinking milk or not drinking milk is very much a matter of choice for most people. Same as whether to eat meat, and far be it from me to begrudge anyone their choice.

There is a population of African people who routinely mix the milk of cattle with blood.

Moose meat? That's an interesting one. (Anything like venison?)

They also produce muscle tissue for walking, but that doesn't stop carnivores from eating it.