Aspies For Freedom

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Ellen Wrote:
Being "ADHD" allowed her to be mainstreamed, allowed her to learn social skills at a young age (pre-school helped too- there was NO pre-school when I was coming up and I remember being scared to death of kindergarten!).

As a result of the above I am not big on home-schooling either though in some cases it seems necessary....


I went to a normal preschool, a normal primary school and a normal secondary school and my social skills are pretty bad. I was bullied for most of the time I was in school. I do not have any friends other than my husband, whom I met online... Anyway, it doesn't seem all that relevant to this thread to argue about whether homeschooling is better or worse for social skills than school, so let's leave it at that. If you want me to ramble on about homeschooling vs school-schooling, just let me know.

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I suppose it is possible she could be an airport manager- miracles can and do happen every day and she is making enormous progress/growing every day. And she is probably stronger willed than I, than most actually,  so she has that in her favor....


I don't think it's a good choice for her either, but if you're supportive of her and help her explore the topic by letting her read more about it and talk to people doing that actual job she's likely to find that out for herself, rather than just being told by you.

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If I can lighten her academic load, if I can teach her study skills, it doesn't mean I am forcing her to bend to my will it simply means I am trying to give her the tools to succeed.


Who knows what your father would've said if asked about wanting you to become a physician? He might have said that all he was doing was trying to give you the tools to succeed as well.

I'm all for providing guidance to kids and young adults, but if someone doesn't want to learn something it's virtually impossible to teach them. Show them why it's important they learn something... let her make a few mistakes. When she graduates from highschool it'll very quickly become blatantly obvious that getting a job that pays decently isn't that easy without a degree. After a year or two she'll probably either have learned to be satisfied with a low income, have found one of the few higher-paying  jobs that don't require a degree or have decided to go to college and work at it. It's not a disaster if she doesn't go to college at age 18, really. 20 (or 30 for that matter) is still plenty young.

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I knew when I posted this question last week I would be picked apart by people thinking I was coercing my daughter to make good grades or else, but I know her very well now and am only trying to help her learn some discipline. The academic subjects will come and go and mostly be forgotten, but self-control, discipline stay with you always.


Only if it comes from within... and only if it concerns something that you think is worth doing. The moment I don't believe something is worth doing all my discipline vanishes. When I started college I thought it was worth doing it... I'm not sure anymore hence I dropped out.

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I think it is good discipline to at least read the material ONCE- that is not an unreasonable request.


It doesn't sound like a big request, BUT she didn't choose to be in school... the state decided that for her. The state is deciding for her that it's important for her to learn about trigonometry, Hamlet, etc... If I were to decide for you what I think is important for you to learn, would you just take my word for it and read it once? Would that be reasonable? What if it wasn't me that did that, but the state... the state requiring you to read one book (assigned by them) a week... Would just take 5 hours a week. Perfectly reasonable, right?

Anyway, if your request is so reasonable, then surely you could explain to her why it's reasonable...

Fact is, all around her she sees adults that don't remember anything they learned in highschool, but that expect her to learn it anyway, while she feels there's more important things to learn at the moment, such as social skills, which she's teaching herself by hanging out with her friends. Who knows, that might exhaust her enough to not care about reading her assignments. And who knows, she might be right... it might be more important to her future than reading her textbooks once.


Look... I'm not trying to bash you. I bet you're a good parent overall, you seem to want the best for your daughter. But really, so does she, and just because you're older doesn't necessarily mean you know better. Teenagers are often hard to talk to mainly because their parents still think they know things better whereas the teenager knows that the parent doesn't know everything.

My father-in-law said something to me recently that was pretty much on topic. When my husband was 15 or so and not doing things exactly the way my fil wanted him to, my fil's friend told my fil "Look, you've been saying since he was born that you want him to grow up and be independent... now he's doing exactly what you wanted him to.". My fil had to agree with him on that point.

Independence means that you make your own choices, and some of those choiced might not be the ones that your parents would want you to make. And 18yo is not the point in life where you should go from no independence to independence... Independence is something that should grow and grow before that point.

Ugh... I'm not sure how to get this across clearly... I'm feeling I could've phrased this better but I just don't know how. Sorry.

Oh, and btw... I understand it's easy for me to say this stuff and that it's probably a lot harder when you've actually got a child that you worry about, that you want the best for, and that you think is doing the wrong thing. What can I say... at some point in the future you'll probably look back and laugh at yourself for being so worried. Smile Perhaps you should try talking to parents whose kids are in their late twenties or older and see how much they worried about all kinds of things and how their kids turned out fine. Just a thought.

Who knows... In a decade and a half from now I might be posting the exact same question as you... <grin>
Wrt being an exchange student... They screen host families by doing house visits etc before they assign you to one. Then, they also give you an advisor and a counselor, one to talk about life/culture issues and one to talk about school issues, and they will send you home if you "go wild" or such (I know some students got sent home for that reason... they try to only send responsible kids but it's sometimes impossible to predict who'll behave and who won't). My host family was really protective of me, a bit overly so. Thailand is a pretty safe country to be in. Not sure how you could convince your husband, but sexual molestation is really rare if you use some common sense. Perhaps he could convince her to take some martial arts classes? They're also known to be good for teaching discipline, btw.
Hi, I can't tell a lot about kid in highschool etc, yet. My oldest is only 9. But I know that I didn't know what to do when I was 18. So I just picked something that really seemed nice, and it didn't work out. It fitted my capabilities, and my interest, but it was paperwork instead of dirtyhands research, and I wanted the mud. So I had to quit, it could not catch my attention anymore.

If I had known then what I heared later, that lots of 18 year olds that couldn't make up their mind yet went abroad to do voluntary stuff I would have done that. It gives time to find what you really want and already prepares you for living out of reach of your parents.

Marieke's question; would you behave different if you did not know she's an aspie is an important one I think.

I'm on a waitinglist to get diagnosed myself, but I'm happy I wasn't diagnosed 35 years ago.
But my daughter is on a waitinglist aswell. I'm still not completely sure if it is a good idea. She's doing fine in school, she is different, but liked anyway. And at home we don't think she's different (from us that is). But I've told her that I wanted to get dx-ed and why and she said she wanted it too. (As long as it wouldnt be things with needles, operations or things like that).

I know I won't treat her as disordered if I get the results. But teachers might. And I'm not sure if that's good for her. But if it doesn't work out in her next school it might be handy that we've already got a diagnosis. And my daughter wants to understand more about why she's different from the rest. And yes she knows it, she always knew.

I've told the institute that will do the testing that we wanted her tested, not treated, because we've got no problems (yet).
Yes I had a difficult time reading usless words as I call it..  I do not like novels.. nor long instructions... I alway felt they need professional instruction writers...

That being said.. sometimes its maturity.. as I got older.. .I was a senior in HS I learned to read novels and long pages of assignments... ALso our new generation is visual.. we have had books designed for less reading and more images esp in art...  this startedin the 90s.. Comes from being computer and tv children.. I suggest you ban her from the computer and tv and read... unless she has dyslexia or some other visual disorder.
I take notes.. notes help with the bordom of reading... Good notes are also reviewed for tests and not the book.  Note taking is a big part of study habits.. SOme note takers like me are visual and there is a visual form of note taking.


I have problems with my students even NTs..  note taking from reading assures she read the material.

She can use the Table of Contents and Topic guides

yes words get in the way of Aspie learning <G>


As for reading test instructions.. that will come when she learns to take notes and reading... she will eventually apply it to everything..

Another trick is to have her underline . that assures her of reading everything
. But I find students taking notes during reading works very well.  My students who did this.. usually were able to be prepared learn the material and have notes ready for study for test..

When I was in grad school I taught my students how to do this.. They should learn thin in primary and secondary school..

Also for tests I taught them our to organize their notes for easy study... that is pertenant to a test.

Most aspies do not do well on standardized tests hence so many are missed by colleges. I have my challenges with college admissions.. they are nuts...

some colleges in america are not using standardized tests..

In art they ask for portfolios... the work speaks... Kids who are great with standardized tests does not mean they are talented.

Many aspies do better in grad school where its project oriented...  There is a movement to change how text books are written... and I like it. .I used some of the first in my classes along with computer studies...

About the helping.. I don't know... I was an over achiever and always wanted to help and be in the thick of things when it came to projects.. people I don't like but projects I do...


Maybe she is just not motivated.. what is her age?

I know NTs like this too, especially teens.. I was a volunteer diver in a shark tank for a local aquarium.. the teens often had a low perserverence rate .. even all the NTs.. its called being a teenager and no discipline... they would linger or jabber... or just sit

sounds like she wanted to just play with the dogs and not do the other responsibilities.

That is a hard call on the internet without seeing her..and how she works...

Actuallyl I watched tv and did all my homework (except for reading english assignments).. I found the moment to clear the palate of my mind with mindless comedies worked!  My sisterin law who has her masters in math did the same....


Ellen Wrote:
1. do you have any suggestions on how to motivate an Aspie teen, girl, to at least read school material at least once, in its entirety (or almost) then review before a test?

I am so frustrated with my daughter. An "expert" in Atlanta, who I trust, told me that for an Aspie reading a one-page description of anything was like an NT reading 5 (FIVE) pages on the same subject at the end of the day yet when tired. (May explain why she constantly asks us what the definition of words are rather than looking them up. I think her vocabulary as a result is really suffering. At one time she had a large vocabulary, but seems to be backtracking, but that's another post someday.)

I UNDERSTAND her huge processing problem but I feel to do better than barely pass in some subjects she has to at least read the material once. I think she is merely glancing at it. She is so bright she is able to get by doing that but I am worried she won't get into college at the current rate she is going along (she is too bright for a technical school or junior college imo). She doesn't do well on standardized tests so I won't make her take the SAT or ACT. Just AM NOT going there, you know?

2. Also how do you AGAIN motivate her to work an entire hour at her volunteer activity. She is usually good for only one, 20-minute task, then sits in the waiting room declining all offers to continue with helping. This volunteer activity (an animal shelter) was her idea, by the way and she seems to enjoy it to a certain extent. She does love animals...

THANKS for any help guys!

couldbecousin Wrote:
Ah, reading things in their entirety, a longtime problem of mine!  Even on my (very helpful) ADD meds, which I started just 3 years ago at age 38, I don't have the patience to read things completely from beginning to end.  I wish I had known how to motivate myself to study, much less anyone else!  I went to college but probably would have done better going to a technical school...there are some very smart people making good money in technical fields! Cool   All I can advise is: pay attention to your daughter's interests, to the things she does well and the environments in which she thrives, and be open to all career possibilities.  Maybe your daughter has a learning disability which has not yet been diagnosed, maybe she could be helped by tutoring, but maybe she is (like me and like many other people) very bright without being well suited to academic life.  I hope you and she continue to seek guidance for her to make the most of her unique gifts. Smile  

As for the volunteer work, one thing popped into my head: if your daughter is cleaning cages at the animal shelter, the ammonia smell may be overwhelming after 20 minutes or so, and she may need to get away from it.  (I have no sensory issues myself, but even I can be overcome by fumes to the point of needing to leave the room to recuperate, as I found out a few years ago when I had the bright idea to clean my kitchen floor with undiluted bleach! Rolleyes)  Also, if she goes to the shelter after school, she may simply be too tired or stressed from the rest of her day.  You really would have to ask her what is going on.  Best wishes...Smile    


Yes ADD students have a hard time with this.. Glad you brought that up..

I also had to rest after school.. A big must before I started homework... I was on the tennis and volleyball team, in theatre rehearsals with no time for myself. I needed that "Down time" my mother knew this and I would either climb trees inthe back yard or watch the Mickey Mouse Club and other mindless things for kids... I started my home work at 6pm and finished by 8 .. that was my day.

Yetti Wrote:
I also had to rest after school.. A big must before I started homework... I was on the tennis and volleyball team, in theatre rehearsals with no time for myself. I needed that "Down time" my mother knew this and I would either climb trees inthe back yard or watch the Mickey Mouse Club and other mindless things for kids... I started my home work at 6pm and finished by 8 .. that was my day.


I did not like sitting at the family table to eat.. I ate while I did homework.. my mom did not mind because I had great grades.. Nor did she complain about my watching tv during studying.. My sister on the other hand had to go into another room to do studies... she coudl not do what I did and was banned from tv during studies...

My SIL made all A's and watched tv doing math... some how that worked for us... she is an NT but not very creative...

Norah Wrote:
My parents tried everything to get me to do more about homework and studying etc in secondary school as well, and they failed Smile.
I have a lot of trouble reading large amounts of text if it's not something I'm expressly interested in (i.e. obsessed).
I got through secondary school with barely-passed grades for most subjects, except 2 or 3 that I liked a lot.

Things probably work differently over here with regards to further education (no college etc), but I went to university afterwards, chose a study-subject that interested me a lot, and never again had as much trouble as in secondary school. I flew through it (with regards to the subject matter, the other aspects like internship and all the social stuff you're suddenly required to do were a different story).

It's possible that even if she reads the material more, if she's not very interested, it won't stick anyway. I had that problem too. If I liked it, I barely had to read it once. If I wasn't very interested, I could read it all 5 times and it didn't help very much. But I'm not sure if that goes for everyone of course.

Of course, all this doesn't really help you at all in getting her more motivated or finding any way of getting her to look at the material more... sorry  :S.



They need to change some of the textbooks IMHO... they have with art history for general students.. when it comes to art history I read everything.... everylittle word. .its my passion...

but we use a text designed for our computer generation.. works very well..  I fill in the blanks with my lectures.. I never lecture from the book and require my students to have reading assignments done ahead of class.. I can always tell who reads the book and who does not.. those who ask questions  that had the answers in the reading assignment Wink

What I love are students who think I have not read just about every qualified website on art history.. I check their bibliography as well. <G>  Nothing escapes this profs eye... <G>

I know every page of what they read.. when htey ask a question that was obviously in the reading I refer them to the page, column and paragraph. NUFF said.. Those who do that always have challenges.. Students try to get away with Cr*p... I don't put up with it.. but this is college...

One thing I do that most profs donot.. I understand how difficult it is for our students who are bi lingual... I correct their writing but donot take off, or on syntax errors.. I correct it for their purpose... What I also do are essays.. I figure if I can get them excited about ONE subject in an area they love.. I accomplished a lot....   One of my studnets won national writing competition on her paper in my class <proud teacher>  I get great letters and reveiws from the students. and then I have those who don't like me because I do make them work <G>  And by the time they are18.. mom and dad don't bother me... You had 18 yrs to do you job.. I can't put in what you left out.. teachers are NOT parents... but we try our best.. in the US most parents cannot talk to instructors without the students consent.. Thank God...  Parents more often than not are the problems..
Ellen sounds like too much computer.. my best friend from childhood who is an aspie is a geophysicist and she taught in college . She and I agreed kids do not have observation skills because they are behind a computer and not out in nature.... your daughter needs more nature....I like that she likes Old hollywood.. my daughter did too. I raised her on old musicals and films.. she now collects books on old stars...she was a fan of Busby Berkley , the father of the overhead cams... she wrote reports on it in the 6Th grade...

BTW I teach critical thinking skills... I love enlightening students... also my lectures then to be very visual and with my theatre background very entertaining....

SOunds like teen who wants the fun part and not the chores <G> I don't think that is an aspie thing <G>

Have you thought about nature studies.. in our city we have courses at the marine universities of nature study on the beaches and bays and preservation sites... they are fascinating.. I signed my daughter up for those... they learn observation in nature.. no computers... I know they have them in UK and USA.. You as a parent have to look for them..

Also art trips .. hands on... going to museums.. esp if she loves ancient times..

INstead of computer games.. I gave my daugher a set of warrior girl dolls when she was tiny...  she had battles iwth them.. etc...  The tv was only for old hollywood films.

I was a scout leader and made the meetings educational and learning aobut their community and culture.. I also was a chaperone every year to take our children to places around the world. I never took my daughter to Disney world. I took her to real castles iwth her classmates.. these trips are not expensive they are designed for students an teachers..  These trips gave the understanding to the students WHY they study what they do in school... I am serious , they come back motivated because they now know WHY ..

Okay time for my Ernie story...

Ernie was a hispanic student in my HS.. .we are still friends.. the school counselors (most are idiots) told him to go to a junior college he would never make it in a real 4 yr college..  Ernie wa snot the brightest candle in the chandeliere but he was popular always with a smile on his face... Ernie attempted to go to the local 4  yr university.. his grades were a/b level and when he wanted to go to grad school they put him in an area most did not want to study back then in 1973... it was Genetic engineering LOL.. Today he is a world leader in his field, 80 patents in alzheimers and genetics... and has been in time magazine...for his work.. Nuf said!  I told Ernie at the last HS reunion that I use his story to help others. .he gets a chuckle outof it..

Also girls have a hard time in HS in coed schools... it is a fact teachers teach to boys but I heard lately it is reversed and boys are treated like secondary persons... I am not fond of many in the union based teaching industry.. Many teachers are incompetant and often the best teachers leave...I know the politics..

You have to know the teacher too and their reputation and listen to your child... children often give clues.. my daughter did , she outright told us of teachers and she was often on target..

Kids do not lie... unless they are afraid of you...

I have story that will curl your hair about some teachers...

My daughter knew I dont tolerate people who don't do their jobs.. students OR teachers.... so she knew to do her part.. that left the teacher.. I have to say she did well... and I ran across too many incompetant whacko teachers.


Ellen Wrote:
PS Hope's interests are fighting video games, music (listening only, but occasional singing), hermaphrodites!, old Hollywood stars like Marilyn Monroe, Lauren Bacall, Ginger Rogers, a lot of things Asian, animals, ancient Greece and Rome, also Atlantis. She is hung up on a couple of celebrity young men too. She would give anything to meet Haley Joel Osment, for example...

At the shelter they let her also groom and pet the cats, so it's not all drudgery.

Technical schools do have many advantages, you're right- shorter classes, no endless list of prerequisites, etc. I printed out a list of the careers available and the only one right now I think she would be interested is some sort of computer tech maybe. She spends many hrs. on the computer researching things she's interested in so I could see her as an MIS tech or something. Maybe her uncle could even get her a job upstate as he is an MIS tech.

She has told us and the teachers at school she wants to be an airport manager probably for the travel benefits! Big Grin Sensory- and people-wise I know this would be a disaster though.

IT IS PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF HER INTELLECTUAL CURIOSITY THAT I AM HOLDING OUT ON REGULAR COLLEGE, LIBERAL ARTS.

Only two years ago a co-worker told me her daughter would never go to college but then I met her and saw her intelligence and confidence and said, Heidi, don't rule her out just yet." This child has dyslexia but now makes decent grades and their whole outlook is shifting, mother and daughter!

My own family is proof you don't 1) have to make good grades or 2) do everything on a set timetable to be successful.  Both my brothers had trouble in school (though one has a high IQ I think) and one graduated from college late, in his early thirties, but now one is a successful lawyer (his own firm) and the other is a tenured professor at a nearby medical college!!!!

I am not impossible with her or too pushy- my own parents EXPECTED good grades from me and would occasionally compliment me on them (I graduated in the top 10% of my private school class) and I know other parents who gave their kids money if they did well in school but my bottom line is all I ask is you do your best. Period. If your best is a D, then fine, we did the best we could. The problem is I can't get at or understand when and if my Aspie daughter IS doing the best she can.

She is also pretty materialistic and into money so I tend to tie future endeavors like getting some sort of degree with that. I will say things like "Do you think I could afford a trip to Amsterdam if I had never gotten my degree, gotten my current job?"  I am trying to help her make connections between all the "goodies" in life with working steadily towards them, if you know what I mean...

My son now knows how hard it is to get by having lived three years in a shared apartment with three other boys while in college. I think for a while he was living on ramen noodles when his cafeteria plan hadn't kicked in, but I digree.

I can tell when she is motivated- she spends a lot of time on an assignment. Her whole body language is different then too- she is quieter and engrossed.

Other assignments she completes in record time so I am pretty sure she just doesn't want to be bothered with it. She is also very literal- if they tell her 1000 words, she only does 1000 words, and makes it handwritten unless I tell her to type it.

Also, even once she "learns" something I am not sure she still completely understands it. I have read other Aspies talk about this problem as well. She has poor short term memory if she isn't interested which materializes into poor long-term memory.  All this really hurts after a while because the state-mandated end of year tests count towards their final grade and if she still doesn't understand the material then it hurts her. Thank God they only do those silly tests at the end of the year and not every quarter.

I just don't understand her current dilemma with grades since she completed elem. and middle school with decent grades.

But this year was all about finding her social niche too, which is more important. Socially she is doing great and does have friends. Some of the kids treat her with great respect even- I know because I witnessed it last night at a 4th of July celebration.

So, in the final analysis, just being an Aspie I think automatically translates into a learning disability, you know what I mean?

Ellen Wrote:
Finally, someone here posted that they thought Woody Allen was an Aspie I think.   I don't see that myself, but, face it, many AS traits in that generation may have been beaten out of kids by their parents.


Not just that generation... watching my parents shove broccoli up my brother's nose a couple of times has ensured that I don't have any problems eating any kind of food... however disgusting it is, I can down it just fine...

I'd like to "bump" this thread because it is interesting.

All the best.
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