Dr. Gilmartin is a very confused individual.
His latest book is on parenting. That's a frightening thought.
It seems like the "metrosexual" of recent times fits all of these traits, as well. Think Ryan Seacrest for an example.. he's hetero but quite obsessed with his face/appearance.
But really, what does any of this have to do with being a lesbian? This seems more like a personality type he's describing, than a "defined subgroup of males."
Personally, I think all of this is s**t.
"Ryan Seacrest for an example.. he's hetero"
Seacrest would be delighted to know he fooled someone.
"Ryan Seacrest for an example.. he's hetero"
Seacrest would be delighted to know he fooled someone.
Well, I was just trying to give an example to show that "metrosexual" and "male lesbian" might as well be one and the same.
On a side note, I wonder if people are going to stop coming to forums, now that AFF is down every other day, with MySQL errors when it is working...
Oh, I just found out that apparently this Gilmartin guy doesn't know what transsexual actually means. He thinks "transsexual" means someone who will transition to being a woman but will then be interested in men.
Bear in mind that the book on the subject (Shyness and Love: Causes, Consequences, and Treatment) is over twenty years old (pub. 1987), at which time this view was still fairly mainstream.
I've skimmed through it (it's available at love-shy.com) and, while there's some real BS there (e.g. the sections on astrology and past-life regression), it's worth reading just for the details of Gilmartin's study (which I thought somewhat flawed, but intriguing nonetheless).
What on earth does any of that have to do with being a lesbian?
Evidently nothing. The list enumerates traits Gilmartin associates with "love-shyness" in general, not male lesbianism specifically. "Male lesbian" is the name given to a subset of love-shy men who wish to have been born female, but who don't otherwise express any transsexual tendencies and who definitely aren't sexually interested in other men. In fact, given the criteria for study inclusion, I'd go as far as to say that the men involved were pathologically heterosexual.
What on earth does any of that have to do with being a lesbian?
Evidently nothing. The list enumerates traits Gilmartin associates with "love-shyness" in general, not male lesbianism specifically. "Male lesbian" is the name given to a subset of love-shy men who wish to have been born female, but who don't otherwise express any transsexual tendencies and who definitely aren't sexually interested in other men. In fact, given the criteria for study inclusion, I'd go as far as to say that the men involved were pathologically heterosexual.
The traits on the list mostly apply to me, and yet I've never wished to have been born female.
So, I still think this whole thing is complete BS.
The traits on the list mostly apply to me, and yet I've never wished to have been born female.
Well, quite. My point was that the list, taken out of context, is misleading and, in any case, doesn't relate specifically to the "male lesbian" concept.
There's a pretty good wikipedia article on the subject that goes into greater detail.
In Germany there is a song called Gay girls, but I guess it has nothing do with it.
I once came up with an idea I called "Stavros the Confused Lesbian" about a Greek immigrant who was always getting caught up in wacky misunderstandings.
No one ever got it.
Yes, one that is less silly.
men who wish to have been born female, but who don't otherwise express any transsexual tendencies and who definitely aren't sexually interested in other men.
I think you nailed it:
Actually, I believe I was quoting Gilmartin's definition.
in other words, it has absolutely nothing to do with lesbianism, but a flawed attempt to describe a kind of hetero man.
I found the whole study described in Shyness & Love to be profoundly flawed. Sadly, so far as I know, little has been done since. It's a damned shame since, I believe, a tremendous amount of misery could be alleviated, if not avoided entirely, if the romantically unsuccessful man (i.e. loser) were taken more seriously (an opinion I usually express more succinctly and crudely, but I'm trying to be genteel here 
).
Males can't be lesbians - only females!
The name is unfortunate, and I think it is no longer in use, but I assume that the thought behind it is:
Men who act like
women
and who like women
must have made the authors of the study think about libianism
Straight men who are very "gay" are called metrosexuals. Maybe that is the sorta guy they are thinking of??
Yeah, I mean I don't agree with the terminology because the origin of the word "lesbian" clearly refers to females. I do see the concept but think a better descriptive term needs to be found.
Oh, I just found out that apparently this Gilmartin guy doesn't know what transsexual actually means. He thinks "transsexual" means someone who will transition to being a woman but will then be interested in men. Whereas actually transsexuality and sexual orientation have nothing to do with each other. A person can be transsexual and either straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, asexual, or whatever else. Gilmartin is just being clueless or something.
I agree. Many people get them mixed up. Here is a easy way to remember, transexual is when a person believes that he/she is born of the wrong gender, and sexual orientation deals with the person's attraction. Transvestism deals with cross dressing for various reasons (sexual fetish, performance art, disuise)