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Have you ever heard of a Male-Lesbian ?!?!

It has nothing to do with either homo or trans.
It is about hetero-males.


According to Gilmartin, many male-lesbians (who overlap with love-shy men) show the following patterns:

-often feel women are more privileged than men
-are in below-average physical shape as a group
-tend to be less interested in sports
-tend to be more interested in movies and music, and prefer watching different types of movies from non-love-shy men
-place great, often disproportionate importance on physical beauty (especially facial beauty)
-are not as likely to be interested in male friendships
-are less patriotic
-are less religious
-16% of his sample were unemployed (p. 442)
-has experienced homelessness or poverty for the large part of their lives
-develop interest in females at an earlier age than usual, particularly in the third to fifth grade range
-often only want to have female children
-often have a hard time expressing their emotions
-are sometimes passive aggressive
-are melancholic
-often have had a physically difficult birth
-have low energy levels; show little interest in physical and sporting activities, as well as difficulty getting out of bed in the morning
-were usually quiet as infants, while non-love-shy men are rarely so
-often have tense, nervous, angry and/or two-faced mothers who -disallowed dates with girls
-often have no sisters, and rarely have more than one
-often are very serious
-often had no adults to turn to for emotional support as children, and continue to be that way as adults
-often felt they had little influence on family decisions as children
are easily upset
-have demanding parents who invade their privacy; thus have privacy problems to suffer
-often go through an excessive amount of psychological trauma, of which love-shyness can be the aftermath; many of the above items can be precursors of it
-parents were overprotective
-grew up in isolation
-like girls, but are afraid to talk to them because they're afraid of rejection

However, some have noted that those who are not love-shy may also exhibit a number of these patterns.

Findings which have not been found by Gilmartin are:

-they have fathers who have disrespectful curiousity about women that their sons interact with and vice versa
-hold their parents responsible because of some of the aforementioned limitations; and in turn ban their parents from meeting any future lover
-disown their parents after moving out from their home
What on earth does any of that have to do with being a lesbian?
Oh, I just found out that apparently this Gilmartin guy doesn't know what transsexual actually means.  He thinks "transsexual" means someone who will transition to being a woman but will then be interested in men.  Whereas actually transsexuality and sexual orientation have nothing to do with each other.  A person can be transsexual and either straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, asexual, or whatever else.  Gilmartin is just being clueless or something.
A lot of these things actually fit me pretty well. Not all of them, but most of them (for instance, I'd rather want sons than daughters due to wanting to continue my lineage). I've always felt slightly more female than male, although I'm not gay at all.

Eastcheap Wrote:

anbuend Wrote:
What on earth does any of that have to do with being a lesbian?

Evidently nothing.  The list enumerates traits Gilmartin associates with "love-shyness" in general, not male lesbianism specifically.  "Male lesbian" is the name given to a subset of love-shy men who wish to have been born female, but who don't otherwise express any transsexual tendencies and who definitely aren't sexually interested in other men.


Indeed ^-^ !!

I apologize for having presented a SUBSET as if it were the MAIN thing ... i just wanted all of you to actually click on this thread's name for it's shocking (!) name !  
"Love-shy men" would have been far less shocking!

Apologies for any misconceptions i might have created.

That's a bit of a worry. Chicks are little baby birds.

Regarding the guys described in the book, there used to be a name for them: "sissies" (BTW, "sissy" does not mean they are gay)
It's an interesting concept and I'm sure most people would fit in with at least some of the things on the list. But I totally reject the idea that there is any specific male or female way to behave and I think the fact terms like this have even been thought up in the first place is a sad reflection of a society where everyone is forced into narrow gender roles and is somehow seen as abnormal if they go against them in any way. I don't know how this person would classify me, being someone who is attracted to women and wants an intimate relationship more than anything else while despising the cultural construct of masculinity and everything it means to be a man in our present society. But anyway I think this is a bit silly and that people should be able to be whoever they want to be without being put into some narrow and restrictive category.
I'm like a female version of a male lesbian, then.

I'm a very guyish straight female. Except, I'm not that interested in sports.
There's no such thing as a male lesbian. If it's a male, then they are gay. Only women can be lesbians.
Yes. I don't know what to but there must be a better name for it.

Mike Frazier Wrote:

Chimera Wrote:

Mike Frazier Wrote:
Hi, I'm new here, so I'll try not to piss anyone off. No promises, though.


You probably will - sigh.

Are you a tourist or do you have aspie connections?


My niece. However, the discussion did not deal with Asperger's, but with male lesbianism.

Males can't be lesbians - only females!

I am wondering, as others have, whether the whole 'male lesbian' thing is due to the unfairly narrow gender roles that society assigns to people. By the criteria, I would qualify as 'female, with gay-male brain'!

There have been countless theories over the decades about the influence of others, mothers in particular, over the gender roles. It is the experience of mothers that it is very difficult to modify the intrinsic self-view of our sons or daughters. My father loathed sport, and preferred the civilised conversations of his female colleagues over the coarser ones of the males; I loathed dollies, and preferred the more practical conversations of my male colleagues over the vapid 'beauty and gossip' conversations of my female co-workers;  but surely that is at least partly due to our being Aspie.

At the time the book was written, there was no such thing as a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome. Males who did not fit the NT, straight gender stereotype were a puzzle if they were not gay - I recall that my gay friends were allowed a far greater degree of eccentricity than my straight ones!

And I have a rotten time of it persuading my fifteen year old twins not to use 'gay' or '***' as general purpose insults when 'all their friends' are using those words. Sad I suppose it is just like it was when we were young, and people used 'queer' and 'cretin' as insults. As a child I had no idea that those words had other meanings - they were just noises, like 'flip' or 'heck'!
Hi 2005 FY9, and

WELCOME!


Thank you for the research!
I think androgyny is a far better term to use for this phenomenon and more informative to boot.
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