02-11-2005, 03:58 PM
We had a discussion with Dr.Neubrander, who developed the use of MB12 injections as a treatment for autism, in the chatautism chatroom. The MB12 is given as shots to children on the spectrum who are patients of Dr.Neubrander's.
His brother had spoken to us previously, and informed us of details of the treatments and pointed out that "10-15% of his patients that have been on the program over a year, have lost the autism dianosis when evaluated by a neurologist" and that "if the shots stop, they revert within 1 week". He also stated that many of those treated also show improvements over time. 10% do not respond to treatment, and 5% are adversely affected by treatment.
There is no independent scientific proof of the value of this treatment currently.
Amy - Is it possible that the 10-15% who lose their autism diagnosis after your treatment, are the ones that aren't genetically autistic and are actually mercury poisoned?
Dr.N - no one knows enough about what causes autism. however, genetics plus environment cause the problems. i am not here to say what does or doesn't cause, i am only here to say that something can be done in a significant number of these children that gives them a better quality of life while we/you/they/whomever debates this/that/the next thing
Amy - but it only seems to work for those under 18?
Dr.N - the problem with the over 18 group is that we do not have enough parents/institutions etc providing enough patient base for us to see what happens. the problem is that "the mind set is already been set' and this is very difficult to get people to change. they know what they know and most parents by this time are just plain exhausted and don't rush to seek new "possibilities"
Amy - so you think that by 18 the autistic brain is set?
Dr.N - i don't have a crystal ball and God ain't telling me. however, i know that i treat adults that are not on the spectrum and i get some incredible results. therefore we'll keep having to ask God to show us and hope He will
Amy - what results do you get for people not on the spectrum?
Dr.N - increased cognition, less searching for words [talking around a word until the correct one is found] more energy, fewer immune system problems [this is in the literature also] and funny, many of the wives tell me that ever since her husband started the shots, he's like a teenager again with his lovemaking to her.
Dr.N - i have too many patients and don't need any more. i only continue to do this now because this is big and is not yet understood and science will take several years to do the science proving what i see daily
Amy - is there any research going on right now for it? independent research
Dr.N - yes, the MIND Institute with UC Davis in Sacramento, CA is well underway with a well controlled study. I have been hired to be a clinical consultant
Amy - do you know who is funding it? CAN or NAAR?
Dr.N - I do not know
Dr.N - I will say that it is majorly funded however. we met last july with leaders all around the country and methyl-b12 received 100% of the vote that it should be the thing studied and that it was definitely the most promising.
Amy - how do you feel about DAN doctors who charge over $4000?
Dr.N - first let me say, "sorry about the $4000." that's not my style nor is it a "DAN-thing" it is just what one DAN doctor does. the good news is that the farther and farther i go with this thing, due to the incredible success with mb12 if given long enough, i do fewer and fewer tests and get more and more kids off or closer to off the spectrum than i ever did before
Mish - How long is long enough?
Dr.N - regarding the second question, there is an enzyme binding site that is defective in these children that cannot "recharge" plain old ordinary b12. therefore mb12 "may" be necessary for a few years, maybe life, we don't know, our research is asking the questions though and openmindedly searching for us/for you
Mish - so you're misleading parents without really knowing if there are any long term benefits/risks...And causing many parents to give their child shots that the child may have to upkeep as adults after it being done without really their consent or understanding why these parents do the things they do to these kids.
Dr.N - you can believe that if you want to. i don't do it for money. i can say that there is nothing anyone has done anywhere for almost any disorder that has produced such reproducible results. this is a treatment, not a cure. some come very far, others not very far. however, mb12 shots are very inexpensive, e.g. $1.50 per day which anyone can afford and this is a lot less expensive than all the "we gotta do it for our kids guility things" out there!
Mish - Yeah it may seem cheap but really a lot of this stuff out there biomedically could just as easily cause potential long term damage as it could good.
Amy - Dr.Neubrander do you beleive that autistics have the right to not be cured?
Dr.N - i am not here to promote anything other than science to those that want it. everyone has a right to be and do what they believe. therefore to me that is a "non-issue" as i said before, i do not do this for money though the time i spend i do charge for. enough people who believe differently still try and many are rewarded.just as i have no right to tell you what to believe, neither do you then have the right to make parents that believe the opposite to you feel guilty -- otherwise you are the hippocrite as much as them!
Amy - Dr.Neubrander have any children lost any special talents during treatment? such as savant skills
Dr.N - i have never had a child "lose" their special-ness. what did happen is that mb12 even sharpened their already wonderful gifts.
Amy - so anyone could use MB12 and it would help them? help their brain functioning?
Dr.N - in my practice and after prescribing over 50,000 shots and monitoring them all personally [not shoved off to staff] i can say that 94% have responded to some degree of this 90%, about 20% of them could be classified as truly remarkable and 20% as beneficial but no need to write home to mama about it. the others are in between somewhere.it works very well for asperger's, speech and development delays, ADD and ADHD, etc.For you see, MB12 "spins" the homocysteine recycling pathway to produce the methyl groups all of us need for thousands of normal reactions whether we are typical, atypical,neurotypical, spectrum, etc. In addition, it forms glutatione that is known to all scientist and biochemist to be more needed than just about anything we have
Mish - do you ever wonder what happens if there are negative effects later on that parents wouldn't look back to drs. like yourself for responsibility?
Dr.N - i take responsibility. i could be wrong. you all may die -- me too. in the meantime however we are living a much more meaningful life. therefore i am going to get this life in order, know where i am going in the next one, hope i don't "speed things up a bit' to get there, but not worry about every "Chicken Little Event"about the sky falling in. remember, just as you believe, you have your rights to do and believe and "be safe" as you want. so do i. so do others. all i am saying is live and let live and don't accuse those of us out there on the front edge trying to make a difference -- and definitely making a difference that we are bad people. maybe i am, maybe i'm not. but anyone that knows me knows i love my kids and so far, none have been hurt!
Amy - so is it for example like a new "vitamin c" that anyone can take and benefit from?
Dr.N - mb12 cannot be compared to vitamin c. it can and should only be compared to itself and what it does "for people", not for autism. this is a message i have been having difficulty getting across to colleagues because this is just so new that all they can do is compare it to things they understand and they have not yet been able to find the bridges to even discuss it intelligently with those of us who deal with it on a daily basis.
Mish - Everyone loves their kids, they do what they believe is for the best for their children but to what extent is it infringement on the children's rights and the child growing up feeling defective and all because of parents that are constantly trying to change them through therapy and biomedical interventions. I've always wondered how far is too far... it's scary the extent that things now have been taken at times.
Dr.N - i do not disagreen with "the heart' behind your statement. i do not feel 'something is wrong" but i do know something is different. nothing makes different wrong.i'm different -- not necessarily right or wrong.
Mish - Then why does being on the autism spectrum have to be that way....
Dr.N - I didn't create people. i did'nt create the war. i did not produce the holocaust. i also do not have answers to the things that have been plaguing society for years.
Mish - If everyone is different, why not accept and allow individuals when they are old enough to have a say and understanding choose what they feel is right for them... autism isn't a life-threatening illnesses but I see so many NT parents come onto a board I am on, terrified of autism.
Amy - do you think that there should be pre natal testing for autism?
Dr.N - medical ethics is something that causes great unrest. things like this are no different than political parties, religions, etc. my beliefs are mine -- yours are yours. both of us have the right to think and believe what we want. without a doubt each of our belief systems were created out of our past experiences and genetics and environment.
Mish - yeah but medical professionals and the media in the case of autism hasn't really fully helped to alleviate the myths about the autism spectrum, give any more acceptance and understanding but increase fear with use of words like 'epidemic' and such. Surely the medical community could try and be a little bit less quick to portray the future outcomes of having an autistic child in the worst light possible.
Amy - but the difference is that if there is a pre natal test i would be pushed to have it, as i have one child with autism and have AS
Mish - I agree Amy, same here.
Dr.N - I cannot invalidate anything you believe or wish for yourself or your family. neither can i invalidate those that believe opposite to you. if i did, i would be just as guilty as the rest who want to control each other and the world. that is just not who i am
Amy - what do you think of CAN?
Dr.N - CAN is a group of individuals that have gotten together because they believe alike for enough things that they can form a group. the same with DAN, or any other group.i only believe what i believe for me and what i find to be truth for me. i can say that about this chatroom. some of what you say i agree with very much. some
of your anger and disheartenment i share. however, i also agree with things that i am assuming, from the "tone" of some of the questions, concerns, or responses that you do not believe in or are strongly against. that does not validate or invalidate either of us. it just is what it is
Amy - we believe that their research will create pre natal testing and that autistics will be aborted like downs babies
Amy - can you understand our concerns?
Dr.N - i am for science finding ways to prevent pain and emotional distress. I believe in prenatal testing
Amy - and if autistic babies are aborted?like 90% of those tested for downs
Dr.N - you misunderstand what i meant. i believe in testing. i do not believe in abortion!
Dr.N - I have enjoyed our "little chat time" i am going to go now and thank you for caring enough to band together and share your beliefs. we may or may not agree on all points but we definitely can say we value life and each other's ability to believe what s/he wants to believe and to support others in whom they are for the same. goodnight.
Amy - Thank you for talking to us.
His brother had spoken to us previously, and informed us of details of the treatments and pointed out that "10-15% of his patients that have been on the program over a year, have lost the autism dianosis when evaluated by a neurologist" and that "if the shots stop, they revert within 1 week". He also stated that many of those treated also show improvements over time. 10% do not respond to treatment, and 5% are adversely affected by treatment.
There is no independent scientific proof of the value of this treatment currently.
Amy - Is it possible that the 10-15% who lose their autism diagnosis after your treatment, are the ones that aren't genetically autistic and are actually mercury poisoned?
Dr.N - no one knows enough about what causes autism. however, genetics plus environment cause the problems. i am not here to say what does or doesn't cause, i am only here to say that something can be done in a significant number of these children that gives them a better quality of life while we/you/they/whomever debates this/that/the next thing
Amy - but it only seems to work for those under 18?
Dr.N - the problem with the over 18 group is that we do not have enough parents/institutions etc providing enough patient base for us to see what happens. the problem is that "the mind set is already been set' and this is very difficult to get people to change. they know what they know and most parents by this time are just plain exhausted and don't rush to seek new "possibilities"
Amy - so you think that by 18 the autistic brain is set?
Dr.N - i don't have a crystal ball and God ain't telling me. however, i know that i treat adults that are not on the spectrum and i get some incredible results. therefore we'll keep having to ask God to show us and hope He will
Amy - what results do you get for people not on the spectrum?
Dr.N - increased cognition, less searching for words [talking around a word until the correct one is found] more energy, fewer immune system problems [this is in the literature also] and funny, many of the wives tell me that ever since her husband started the shots, he's like a teenager again with his lovemaking to her.
Dr.N - i have too many patients and don't need any more. i only continue to do this now because this is big and is not yet understood and science will take several years to do the science proving what i see daily
Amy - is there any research going on right now for it? independent research
Dr.N - yes, the MIND Institute with UC Davis in Sacramento, CA is well underway with a well controlled study. I have been hired to be a clinical consultant
Amy - do you know who is funding it? CAN or NAAR?
Dr.N - I do not know
Dr.N - I will say that it is majorly funded however. we met last july with leaders all around the country and methyl-b12 received 100% of the vote that it should be the thing studied and that it was definitely the most promising.
Amy - how do you feel about DAN doctors who charge over $4000?
Dr.N - first let me say, "sorry about the $4000." that's not my style nor is it a "DAN-thing" it is just what one DAN doctor does. the good news is that the farther and farther i go with this thing, due to the incredible success with mb12 if given long enough, i do fewer and fewer tests and get more and more kids off or closer to off the spectrum than i ever did before
Mish - How long is long enough?
Dr.N - regarding the second question, there is an enzyme binding site that is defective in these children that cannot "recharge" plain old ordinary b12. therefore mb12 "may" be necessary for a few years, maybe life, we don't know, our research is asking the questions though and openmindedly searching for us/for you
Mish - so you're misleading parents without really knowing if there are any long term benefits/risks...And causing many parents to give their child shots that the child may have to upkeep as adults after it being done without really their consent or understanding why these parents do the things they do to these kids.
Dr.N - you can believe that if you want to. i don't do it for money. i can say that there is nothing anyone has done anywhere for almost any disorder that has produced such reproducible results. this is a treatment, not a cure. some come very far, others not very far. however, mb12 shots are very inexpensive, e.g. $1.50 per day which anyone can afford and this is a lot less expensive than all the "we gotta do it for our kids guility things" out there!
Mish - Yeah it may seem cheap but really a lot of this stuff out there biomedically could just as easily cause potential long term damage as it could good.
Amy - Dr.Neubrander do you beleive that autistics have the right to not be cured?
Dr.N - i am not here to promote anything other than science to those that want it. everyone has a right to be and do what they believe. therefore to me that is a "non-issue" as i said before, i do not do this for money though the time i spend i do charge for. enough people who believe differently still try and many are rewarded.just as i have no right to tell you what to believe, neither do you then have the right to make parents that believe the opposite to you feel guilty -- otherwise you are the hippocrite as much as them!
Amy - Dr.Neubrander have any children lost any special talents during treatment? such as savant skills
Dr.N - i have never had a child "lose" their special-ness. what did happen is that mb12 even sharpened their already wonderful gifts.
Amy - so anyone could use MB12 and it would help them? help their brain functioning?
Dr.N - in my practice and after prescribing over 50,000 shots and monitoring them all personally [not shoved off to staff] i can say that 94% have responded to some degree of this 90%, about 20% of them could be classified as truly remarkable and 20% as beneficial but no need to write home to mama about it. the others are in between somewhere.it works very well for asperger's, speech and development delays, ADD and ADHD, etc.For you see, MB12 "spins" the homocysteine recycling pathway to produce the methyl groups all of us need for thousands of normal reactions whether we are typical, atypical,neurotypical, spectrum, etc. In addition, it forms glutatione that is known to all scientist and biochemist to be more needed than just about anything we have
Mish - do you ever wonder what happens if there are negative effects later on that parents wouldn't look back to drs. like yourself for responsibility?
Dr.N - i take responsibility. i could be wrong. you all may die -- me too. in the meantime however we are living a much more meaningful life. therefore i am going to get this life in order, know where i am going in the next one, hope i don't "speed things up a bit' to get there, but not worry about every "Chicken Little Event"about the sky falling in. remember, just as you believe, you have your rights to do and believe and "be safe" as you want. so do i. so do others. all i am saying is live and let live and don't accuse those of us out there on the front edge trying to make a difference -- and definitely making a difference that we are bad people. maybe i am, maybe i'm not. but anyone that knows me knows i love my kids and so far, none have been hurt!
Amy - so is it for example like a new "vitamin c" that anyone can take and benefit from?
Dr.N - mb12 cannot be compared to vitamin c. it can and should only be compared to itself and what it does "for people", not for autism. this is a message i have been having difficulty getting across to colleagues because this is just so new that all they can do is compare it to things they understand and they have not yet been able to find the bridges to even discuss it intelligently with those of us who deal with it on a daily basis.
Mish - Everyone loves their kids, they do what they believe is for the best for their children but to what extent is it infringement on the children's rights and the child growing up feeling defective and all because of parents that are constantly trying to change them through therapy and biomedical interventions. I've always wondered how far is too far... it's scary the extent that things now have been taken at times.
Dr.N - i do not disagreen with "the heart' behind your statement. i do not feel 'something is wrong" but i do know something is different. nothing makes different wrong.i'm different -- not necessarily right or wrong.
Mish - Then why does being on the autism spectrum have to be that way....
Dr.N - I didn't create people. i did'nt create the war. i did not produce the holocaust. i also do not have answers to the things that have been plaguing society for years.
Mish - If everyone is different, why not accept and allow individuals when they are old enough to have a say and understanding choose what they feel is right for them... autism isn't a life-threatening illnesses but I see so many NT parents come onto a board I am on, terrified of autism.
Amy - do you think that there should be pre natal testing for autism?
Dr.N - medical ethics is something that causes great unrest. things like this are no different than political parties, religions, etc. my beliefs are mine -- yours are yours. both of us have the right to think and believe what we want. without a doubt each of our belief systems were created out of our past experiences and genetics and environment.
Mish - yeah but medical professionals and the media in the case of autism hasn't really fully helped to alleviate the myths about the autism spectrum, give any more acceptance and understanding but increase fear with use of words like 'epidemic' and such. Surely the medical community could try and be a little bit less quick to portray the future outcomes of having an autistic child in the worst light possible.
Amy - but the difference is that if there is a pre natal test i would be pushed to have it, as i have one child with autism and have AS
Mish - I agree Amy, same here.
Dr.N - I cannot invalidate anything you believe or wish for yourself or your family. neither can i invalidate those that believe opposite to you. if i did, i would be just as guilty as the rest who want to control each other and the world. that is just not who i am
Amy - what do you think of CAN?
Dr.N - CAN is a group of individuals that have gotten together because they believe alike for enough things that they can form a group. the same with DAN, or any other group.i only believe what i believe for me and what i find to be truth for me. i can say that about this chatroom. some of what you say i agree with very much. some
of your anger and disheartenment i share. however, i also agree with things that i am assuming, from the "tone" of some of the questions, concerns, or responses that you do not believe in or are strongly against. that does not validate or invalidate either of us. it just is what it is
Amy - we believe that their research will create pre natal testing and that autistics will be aborted like downs babies
Amy - can you understand our concerns?
Dr.N - i am for science finding ways to prevent pain and emotional distress. I believe in prenatal testing
Amy - and if autistic babies are aborted?like 90% of those tested for downs
Dr.N - you misunderstand what i meant. i believe in testing. i do not believe in abortion!
Dr.N - I have enjoyed our "little chat time" i am going to go now and thank you for caring enough to band together and share your beliefs. we may or may not agree on all points but we definitely can say we value life and each other's ability to believe what s/he wants to believe and to support others in whom they are for the same. goodnight.
Amy - Thank you for talking to us.