Would you mind explaining why? Do you object to the claim that AS is not defined by anxiety and that having social anxiety doesn't make one autistic?
Anxiety is common but it is not an integral part of it and not required for diagnosis, so there is nothing wrong with stating that while Social Anxiety is defined by anxiety, AS is not.
Putting AS on the same level as a psychological problem that can be overcome with therapy and is based on mild paranoia and self-consciousness seems bizarre to me. There's already enough people with AS who get told they just have some psychological problem (rather than AS) like social anxiety - why should there be more?
Sorry, I have no social anxiety. Yes I find eye contact unconfortable but I don't worry endlessly about what others think of me, feel constantly self-conscious and worry about people thinking I am ugly, clumsy, incompetent etc. etc.
I couldn't care less about what others think of me to be honest and most of the time I am not aware of people or what they may or may not think of me.
I know several people with AS or HFA (some in real, more online) who are the same.
I didn't only mention worries about what I look like, I included much more than that (it is worry about what others think of you, about having to perform etc.).
And I do know what social anxiety is (a German girl on an AS forum has both and I looked into this extensively at the time) and no I have none of those things. (I do have issues with experiencing emotion while being watched - like I can't feel enjoyment or surprise when opening gifts when being watched - but this is only with the very few people I am close to, because unless I am very close to someone I don't register them much in an emotional kind of sense)
Yes there are ways in which people can be "anxious about social encounters" for many reasons (including social ineptitude, multitasking, sensory issues etc.) but that is not the same as the diagnosis of "social anxiety". (See definitions below)
And:
One BIG difference is that someone with AS will still have difficulty interacting with people even when the people are familiar (or the situation is familiar), whereas for someone with social anxiety, it is mostly strangers that tend to be a problem (because of the fear of judgement and scrutiny).
Yes Amy you can experience "anxiety in social situations" but the website Wolfy referred to deals with "Social Anxiety" according to the DSM, which is defined by worries about how you are perceived, performance anxiety etc.
You are free to make up your own definitions of social anxiety but please accept that when people are discussing what is commonly known as "Social Anxiety", you have to accept that what they say refers to this concept and not the concept you have decided to call "Social Anxiety".
It helps to make clear that you are not talking of *the* Social Anxiety when mentioning it, as this makes things a lot less confusing.
A woman once caused a lot of pain on a German forum because she, who has diagnosed HFA, hurt people by storming on there and declaring that AS was a severe personality disorder etc. etc.
Only weeks later did she admit that she did not understand what "Personality Disorders" were, but just defined PDs as "a personality that is a bit different".
If she had bothered to state this right from the start, she could have avoided a lot of hurt and anger.
I agree with that - but you listed a website that tries to differentiate AS from social phobia by stating that AS is not defined by anxiety as a "rotten autism site". And I'm sorry but AS isn't defined by anxiety, anxiety is not the central symptom in AS! Ergo, the website isn't wrong!
Admittedly, they could have worded it better, but are you not perhaps just reading things into it because of your own experiences (of being told you don't have AS because you had OCD or anxiety or something - I don't remember exactly)?
If you look at that text in context they were discussing what is "at the center" of a condition, and with social phobia (as with all anxiety disorders), extreme and often irrational anxiety about social performance is the core common symptom, whereas AS is not defined by any type of anxiety, be that social or otherwise.
Because the gist of that page is still true - if a person's main symptom is chronic anxiety and fears about being judged by others, then it is more likely to be social anxiety than AS.
With AS most do end up experiencing some type of anxiety and some do develop social anxiety, but while many with AS EXPERIENCE these types of problems, AS is not caused by humiliating social experiences and low self esteem (and can therefore not be therapied away).
Perhaps it might be a good idea to E-Mail them to ask if they could clarify this statement, so they change it to "while people with AS can experience anxiety alongside with their symptoms, or as a result thereof, the syndrome itself is not defined by persistent anxiety states, and the social difficulties people with AS can experience are real and not founded on irrational worries".
Yes, but "social anxiety" is not an emotion, it is a term for a specific anxiety disorder, and that was the context in which both Wolfy and myself used the term.
"Social Anxiety" is defined by worries about how you are perceived and similar things, worries about being inadequate and so on. It is a diagnostic concept that describes a very specific type of anxiety disorder that is related to social encounters, in particular with unfamiliar people where you worry about being judged and about not being "good enough" for their expectations.
While some with AS also develop "social anxiety", the whole point of that page on the website Wolfy linked to is to point out that there is a big difference between AS and "social anxiety" (which is a common misdiagnosis for AS).
The big difference between the anxieties many with AS feel about social encounters, and Social Anxiety, is that the worries about social performance in AS tend to be founded on genuine social difficulties (and often linked to feelings of confusion, genuine difficulties in holding a conversation, in keeping up etc.), whereas with Social Anxiety they are usually based on exaggerated and sometimes imagined fears and imperfections a person may have.
A person with AS may have difficulty initiating or continuing a conversation, lack body language, become overwhelmed or confused in groups etc. but is not necessarily aware of this nor do they nexessarily need to be sad or anxious about these things (many get by just fine and just avoid those situations where they feel uncomfortable).
For example, a person with AS may attempt to hold a conversation with someone they don't know but struggle when the other person wants to do small talk.
A person with social anxiety disorder on the other hand may not even attempt that conversation because they believe they are not interesting enough, they are bad at talking to people or worry they will mess it up, people will laugh at them, make fun of them, they may dislike them, ridicule them and so on.
However, unless they ALSO have AS or similar, their "weaknesses" are imagined or grossly exaggerated and they are only uncomfortable doing these things with people they don't know (or where they don't know in advance that they will be liked). If they hold the same conversation with someone they are familiar with, they do very well and have no problems keeping up with the conversation, using body language, small talk and so on.
Yes I was, and so was the website Wolfy linked to, hence my use of the same term when discussing whether this is or is not the same as AS.
Since you responded to my post and told me I didn't understand the subject, I assumed you had based this judgement on the same terms in which we were discussing social anxiety, i.e. in the context of the condition discussed on the website and by Wolfy and me.
AS can be LEARNED? Then there's hope for us all!
Well it sounds more like they are unable to tell whether a few mild AS-LIKE behaviours or personality aspects are actually AS traits or are due to growing up with an AS parent. (As human beings - in particular NTs who are more likely to imitate etc. - learn things from their parents and pick up habits and behaviours, that is not all that irrational a thing to speculate on)
That's one thing I dread about having kids! 
But back to AS traits - yes of course as you said tastes and suchlike (as in waht they watch on TV) are largely not something they "get" from parents, but surely there are some aspects of behaviour, and some habits, that you pick up from parents (even if they are not biological parents for example)?
Yes in this particular case (Singer) I must admit it is unlikely that it is down to nurture, but there are also many things that kids do pick up from their parents, or learn from them.
For example every family I have ever had dinner with has their own little idiosynchratic ways as far as dinner table rules are concerned, and this seems to carry through at least to some degree (for example people whose families have lax rules generally don't fuss about with eating at the table when they have their own household etc.) so I could well see that an NT who grows up learning more Aspie-type ways of doing things (or structuring things) could pick up some of these ways.
Of course spending a lot of time with other families (sleepovers etc.) can help to broaden this but I suspect some people with AS who don't like being around lots of people may not go to great lengths to deal with having children over or organising for their kids to spend time at other parent's homes, so perhaps this also increases this effect?
(Of course if it is too extreme then it can go the other way!)
Yeah definitely, but that's also partly something I think an AS parent (who is more likely NOT to agree with the "herd" thinking and perhaps more likely not to want other kids in and out the house all the time) might influence to some degree, partly because there is less understanding of why on earth someone would want to watch something "just because everyone else does", and partly because from what some Mums wit AS said/wrote, it seems there might be a trend to have less children over or be less involved in out of school activities.
So to some degree even NT kids of an AS parent might get less "branding" from peers - on the other hand though it is also possible the "go the other way" to counteract what they perceive as the AS parents "lack of being cool" (perhaps more so than with NT parents), although again one great thing I notice with "more alternative" (not necesarily AS, just more open-minded, green types, anthroposophic/Waldorf etc.) families is that there seems to be so much more self-confidence going. Kids seem happier to be who they are, and less ashamed of not wearing what everyone else does etc.
Well that's the odd thing with me, because both my parents are atheists (out of sheer disinterest and lack of need for religion more than anything) but they did briefly try to make an effort with me to give me a chance to make up my mind, i.e. they took me to church sometimes and a lot of our local kids' and youth facilities (such as summer camps etc.) are organised by the church and I was sent to a fair few of them. But even though until a certain point (I think it was when "the penny began to drop" for me as far as what religion was actually trying to make us believe!) I was quite "into" it as far as looking things up in the bible and answering questions from the bible etc., it never really stuck with me.
Mind you it was a very progressive vicar (we watched films about the Big Bang and got to debate whether evolution or creationsim made more sense etc.!) who organised most of these events, the only "bible bashers" that were around in that church were a couple who were quite young and rather over-eager with few facts to back up the things they so enthusiastically talked about.
Yeah I read about that too, I don't think they have mentioned any particular region of the brain but they did find that there is a predisposition to strong religious belief. I wonder whether there is link between this and the strong belief in UFOs and extrasensory things?
If I remember correctly, Ursula has a brother she deems almost "crazy" who's into all sorts of conspiracy stuff, while she herself is religious. It would be interesting if there was a study looking at those two aspects, rather than just religious beliefs!
I've read a shorter version of that before in an article, the title sounds right (at least it sounds familiar!). I'll have a look for that book as I've just run out of reading material AGAIN and will be in Sheffield (= BIG bookstores) this week.
The Book "The Autism-ADHD connection" focuses on Autism and ADHD, and links both with Bipolar.
I might be too stupid or literal to understand the book, but to me it simply reads like a huge pile of circular argumentation.
1) She believes they are manifestations of the same disorder
2) She "proves" this by equating aspects of Autism with aspects of ADHD (sans explanation why she thinks they are the same!) and expecting people to magically see them as 'the same' (which they are not!).
Are they comparing an Autistic child to a pet?
No they are not, they are implying that parents of autistic children who have a tendency to run away (some autistic children are wonderful escape artists and try to run away or break out of the house at any given opportunity, day or night) should make sure that their children have some form of ID on them so they can be returned if they manage to run away.