Hi
I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder 4 years ago (I'm now 24) and recently with OCD. But most people I know believe my behaviour to be more Asperger's than BPD.
I haven't looked it up on the Net much, as that's never a good idea to try and diagnose yourself.
Here and some examples of what I'm like/ what my behaviour is like, that stand out a lot. I wonder if these are AS characteristics, or if anyone can identify with this.
Never liked being hugged as a child, would pull away and would never instigate affection
Would never hold people’s hand, would just offer my hand but never grip
Didn’t crawl, but pushed myself on my back
Walked at 16 months
Talked early
Didn’t like playing with other kids, liked to do stuff like puzzles and draw on my own
I have a hard time with empathy, except when it comes to animals I feel differently towards them
My brain explodes if I have too many instructions or information and I just ‘shut down’ or have to find somewhere quiet to have a cry or just quiet time (tricky when in work!)
Get stressed easily, especially when I was in school and really underachieved, despite having a fairly high IQ
Used to cut myself when things got ‘too much’. I found it soothing and calming
I have total lack of fear with my own safety, but am really cautious
People say that my accent changes all the time and I change the way I speak
I cannot for the life of me do ‘chit chat’. I find it so uncomfortable. I prefer discussing things I like rather than discussing emotions etc
Have a hard time verbalising my feelings. Tend to go into a rage or completely shut down and get depressed
Expect others to understand how I feel or what I’m talking about and get frustrated when they don’t
Have no common sense
Being in crowds is ‘too much’. Too much to look at and I get distracted. If I’m talking to someone on a busy street I tend to look around me too much and can’t concentrate on the conversation
Cannot make eye contact at all. My eyes feel like they’re burning if I try to. It makes me uncomfortable
I find it impossible to judge distance, height and weight
Often don’t notice if people are upset. I don’t feel connected to other people’s emotions. I feel almost like they’re actors just saying what they’re feeling, I can’t understand that they’re saying what they’re saying because they feel that way
Undersensetive to pain
Hate having my personal space invaded. I tend to talk to people as far away as I can, because I find standing close to people too weird
Always shaking my foot, tapping my fingers, especially if nervous or trying to concentrate
Get stressed out if I’m made to do things I haven’t prepared myself for. I’m not a spontaneous person
Really really bad impulse control
Always saying totally inappropriate things and getting told I’m weird for saying them
Have a hard time telling a lie, I tend to smile as it makes me uncomfortable
I have OCD with hand washing, repeating phrases and words in my head and rituals
Thankyou
That's okay.
Could you tell me how I'd go about getting an assesment please?
Being in crowds is ‘too much’. Too much to look at and I get distracted. If I’m talking to someone on a busy street I tend to look around me too much and can’t concentrate on the conversation
Try wearing a baseball hat or similar, and shades, to limit visual sensory input - it helps me personally a LOT with limiting my field of vision to make this happen less.
I find it impossible to judge distance, height and weight
I don't know if that is particularly ASD-typical but welcome to the "can't estimate club - I've always been HORRENDOUS at that, even things like those "competitions" as a kid where you had to estimate how many [sweets, marbles etc.] were in a jar - I found that so distressing!
Anyway a lot of what you said here sounds like you could well be on the autistic spectrum - there's more to that than just AS though, although the "walked late, talked early" pattern* is sometimes an indicator.
* I thought I had this too but it turns out that I started talking at ca. 14 months which is *not* early after all. I did start walking around the same time but didn't walk on my own until 16 months either though.
That's okay.
Could you tell me how I'd go about getting an assesment please?
Where do you live (country is enough)? Mostly people see their GP and then take it from there, but if you can find an autism support group nearby it pays to get in touch with them by Email (or phone, whatever you're able to do) and ask around for adult specialists.
I'm not disputing the BPD diagnosis, but it was made by a psych who had just looked over my medical records and diagnosed me after meeting me for an hour. I do have a lot of BPD behaviour, but also I believe some AS behaviour too. I guess it's possible to have both. I've also recently been diagnosed with severe OCD, something I was totally not aware of. I knew I always had an odd way of thinking about things but I thought it was just me.
I am really aware of my BPD behaviour, but there are some things like my lack of empathy I wasn't aware of. It's not that I don't want to listen to a friend's problem, I just cannot for the life of me understand how their feeling and what to say to them. But on the other hand, I'll go out of my way to help as much as I can, just not on an emotioal level. For example, when my friend had a baby, the whole thing just went over my head, and I had to idea how to react to it. So, I cooked a ton of food, as I thought they'd be too busy to cook, and she way really pleased. So I try to compensate in other ways. Sometimes, and this is horrible, I laugh if someone in crying or is upset, because I have no idea what to do. I've been accused of being insensetive and self-absorbed so many times, and it hurts so much because I don't mean to be.
Also in school, I was bullied for being 'weird'. My interest in boys developed really late, and to be honest, the whole thing scared me. I really wanted friends and tried my best but was constantly rejected and had few friends. I had, and still do, real trouble with talking to people. My social skills are appalling. I've been told off so many times in jobs for talking out of line, asking personal questions and being inappropriate. It really hurts and it totally humiliating, because deep down I know I have the brains get a good job, and I know I'm gonna have to get a job where I work alone even though I'll miss the interaction.
All my life I've been labelled as a 'strange one' and I could never understand why. The BPD makes sense, but I know there's more to it. I'm not trying to get out of having BPD by convincing myself I have AS, but that makes sense to me too.
To Saint
I am really sorry about your sister, that must have been awful.
I've also recently been diagnosed with severe OCD, something I was totally not aware of. I knew I always had an odd way of thinking about things but I thought it was just me.
That does seem... strange. With OCD the whole point is that you suffer these huge compulsions, which you perceive as coming "from outside of you" (i.e. it doesn't feel like "I really want to do this" but "I need to do this or else..."). It seems off that they would diagnose this in someone who isn't even aware of such compulsions!
You made the same assumpton as me! When I was told I had OCD, I was like, surely I'd notice? The handwashing and counting letters OCD was obvious to me since ages. But I have unwanted thoughts that pop into my head, sometimes upsetting but mostly just annoying. For instance..If I'm talking to my boss and he's trying to explain something to me, I'll get a thought like 'imagine what would happen now if I kissed him?' and I'll be so busy trying to get this mortifying thought out of my head I lost track of what he's saying. These are called Pure-O thoughts. I just thought I was a big weirdo! Finding out they were OCD thoguht were a relief. I also just to have rituals that if I harmed myself nothing bad would happen to me. A reverse Karma if you like! I totally believed this, and had no idea it was OCD. OCD isn't as black and white as it is portrayed in the media.
Everything has to fit in a box and I can't stand things that are abstract. Like I hate poetry, because to me, it doesn't have a purpose. Language should be used to convey information, not to be 'pretty'. And I don't get metaphors, they irritate me so much! This, apparently is OCD. And I can't read fiction, as I get frustrated if I don't know what the characters look like, and I can't make an image of them in my head. I read informaiton books on ghosts, dinosaurs and films mostly! This is OCD as well.
Me wondering about AS was because of people around me suggesting it to me. I suppose they're more aware of my behaviour than I am. I had no idea what it was until some people told me about it. I was quite 'happy' with my BPD diagnosis.
For whatever reason, my empathy is poor. I have been really trying with this. I guess the way I try is by looking for 'clues', and trying to put myself in their place. But it's really hard. It's weird but I can fully empathise with animals, just people, they're hard work!
I've also been diagnosed with Bipolar, before the BPD diagnosis, so to be honest, I don't trust doctors any more! I've been diagnosed with so many different things, I have no idea who to believe.
Honestly, thankyou all for the replies. It's been a real help.
Just the fact that fragglerock is here asking questions shows that the "experts" are not infallible.
If experts being infallible prevented people from thinking for themselves, wouldn't infallibility equate to "zombification" of patients?
Ok, so I was just chatting with my parents about AS, and my Mum said that years ago, a close friend of hers who has known me all my life, who teaches people with AS, said she thought I had Aspergers. She thought this even when I was a child. She said I had a lot of the 'symptoms' but my Dad didnt want me diagnosed as he didn't want me labelled.
This has made me kind of angry, as I could have been helped years ago but no-one did anything about it!
I mean, this woman who works with people with AS said that about me, and it seems that my father's pride got in the way. I know parents don't like the idea of something being wrong with their kids, but this is so bad. I mean, I've spent years being so unhappy and frustrated and it could have been avoided.
To Dinosaur Heretic, yep, I am female. I used to cut myself to relieve stress, the same reason I bang my hand sometimes and hit my head. Also, I shake my foot constantly, expecially when stressed. I find this relaxing also.
This has made me kind of angry, as I could have been helped years ago but no-one did anything about it!
Sounds about right though... my parents are the same...
[quote[I used to cut myself to relieve stress, the same reason I bang my hand sometimes and hit my head.[/quote]
I believe with Borderline that is sometimes different... more a punishment thing, and in many cases a genuine attention/cry for help thing. At least that is my experience, I have a friend diagnosed with it and she used to scratch stuff on her arms and make sure everyone saw the bandages.... so she could then go "Oh yes I cut myself again..."
Just the fact that fragglerock is here asking questions shows that the "experts" are not infallible. When I was a child, therapists were not educated about Asperger's. Still, many are not, particularly the old school types. There's no way I could have been diagnosed, when young; Asperger's wasn't even in the DSM. In a way I think young people today are lucky in that they will be set on the right path and not so much at risk of being misunderstood.
I think it is common for female aspies (you are female, correct?) to be misdiagnosed as BPD. We tend to be more emotionally volatile and demonstative than the males, and (maybe) are more prone to cutting as self-injury, which to a psych. is a hallmark of BPD.
I never understood why I cut myself until I read about autism and stimming. I realized that head banging and deliberate cutting were pretty much the same thing; repetitive, intentional self injury to self-soothe. I didn't understand that high functioning autistics stim. I assumed the "high functioning" part meant "no stimming, especially not self injurious stimming."
Strangely I was never diagnosed with BPD despite the fact that I cut myself (past tense, I have managed to stop). Pretty much every psych. I saw was puzzled by me, said that they couldn't understand me, and were at a loss over how to help or identify my "problem."
I thoroughly second these comments!
Just the fact that fragglerock is here asking questions shows that the "experts" are not infallible. When I was a child, therapists were not educated about Asperger's. Still, many are not, particularly the old school types. There's no way I could have been diagnosed, when young; Asperger's wasn't even in the DSM. In a way I think young people today are lucky in that they will be set on the right path and not so much at risk of being misunderstood.
I think it is common for female aspies (you are female, correct?) to be misdiagnosed as BPD. We tend to be more emotionally volatile and demonstative than the males, and (maybe) are more prone to cutting as self-injury, which to a psych. is a hallmark of BPD.
I never understood why I cut myself until I read about autism and stimming. I realized that head banging and deliberate cutting were pretty much the same thing; repetitive, intentional self injury to self-soothe. I didn't understand that high functioning autistics stim. I assumed the "high functioning" part meant "no stimming, especially not self injurious stimming."
Strangely I was never diagnosed with BPD despite the fact that I cut myself (past tense, I have managed to stop). Pretty much every psych. I saw was puzzled by me, said that they couldn't understand me, and were at a loss over how to help or identify my "problem."
I thoroughly second these comments!
Also, girls have different hormones to men, and we react in different ways. Boys don't interact the same as girls do, they're a bit more straightforward I think.
I can see how (if I do have AS) the 'characteristics' have mimicked BPD symptoms.
I find it almost impossible to express myself emotionally, I feel like a prisoner in my own head, so when I'm upset or angry I just explode, or cut, because I can't verballise how I'm feeling. This could mimick the BPD symptom of rages 'out of nowhere'.
And with the diagnosis thing, I had no idea my empathy was bad until people pointed it out to me. I knew I couldn't feel what other's were feeling, but didn't know how to describe it. I couldn't say to a therapist I have poor empathy, as I wasn't aware of it.
And with the depression, another BPD symptom, came from being constantly rejected and ridiculed by people in school, feeling disconnected from everyone around me and being scared of other people as I didn't understand them.
I think the fact that my Mum's friend who teaches people with AS, suggested I might have AS, and gave my parents loads of things to read about it, years ago, is a big clue I think.
Thankyou all again, you've been really helpful.
Ok, that's good but I don't understand exactly what it means. Does it mean they are non-verbal or is it something else?
It is a learning disorder that affects your ability to understand things presented visually as well as motor skills and balance, and as a result affects maths skills, co-ordination, spatial skills, and in particular reading nonverbal communication (tone of voice, gestures, facial expressions etc.).
People with NVLD tend to have much higher verbal IQs than Practical IQs, often get lost (can only navigate using "landmarks" because they have no sense of direction), misinterpret body language and tend to withdraw socially as they get older, preferring solitary activities and interests to social ones. They are clumsy, have difficulty with reading comprehension (although their verbal skills and ability to read/decode are very high) and tend to be good at categorising information.
Several studies have found that in comparisons between AS and HFA, the AS group showed the NVLD "learning/skills" profile of high Verbal IQ and low practical IQ (and shared all other aspects of NVLD too), whereas with HFA it was either the opposite (low verbal IQ and high practical IQ) or, since HFA kids tend to catch up language, similar verbal and practical IQs (but with strenghts in visual and spatial skills)
However since these studies usually use language delays and language problems as a difference between AS and HFA, and since they usually use people "matched by IQ" (i.e. they only use people who have similar overall IQs), it is hardly surprising to find that the HFA group had a lower verbal IQ and the AS group a higher verbal IQ.
Thanks, Noetic. I'm not sure if I would have NVLD but I have something where I have trouble making myself understood verbally and where I have issues with using body language.
Thanks, Noetic. I'm not sure if I would have NVLD but I have something where I have trouble making myself understood verbally and where I have issues with using body language.
I am not entirely sure whether the "overlap" between AS and NVLD is just based on what it looks like from outside or whether there are genuine similarities in the way people think, learn etc.
If it happens subconsciously then it means that we mustn't give off the same non verbal signals as NTs: